Protestants listen up

[rinnie]

Did Peter consider himself to be a valid Pope. Yes he did he came here just like Jesus to serve and not be served. He said the lord has chosen that thru my mouth. He knew he was the valid Pope. And so did the other Apostles.

As far as the Apostles what did they say about the Blessed Mother well lets see:

Read the letter of Paul to the Galatians But when the fullnes of time came, GOD sent his Son born of a woman born under the law to ransom those under the law so that we might receive adoption.

That’s why the early Church selected THEOTOKOS the greek title for Mary. Because God is with us because of her giving birth to Jesus and combine truly Man and truly Divine in one Nature. That is why she is the Mother of the Church. Since by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church who are members of its Head. Pope Paul Vl is quoted clearly teaching that Mary Mother of CHrist
is Mother of the CHurch.

When we turn to Mary we do so in Prayer. The rosary meditates on the mysteries of the Life of Christ. We know that when we pray to Mary we are confident that she is full of grace and blessed among women and that her son and our Savior Jesus Christ is the fruit of her womb. And we know because of this her prayer’s are most powerful!

 

[Hisalone]

No. Jesus gave His Apostles authority. These Apostles passed this down to the succeeding Bishops in the Church, who ordained Priests. These people have Apostolic Succession and can affect the Sacraments, with the authority to forgive sin. It is actually Christ, the High Priest who forgives sin.

You have no authority whatsoever to minister the Sacrament of Reconciliation. All you can do is forgive someone personally, which is not a Sacrament. You can’t just usurp this authority and claim it for yourself,when it was never intended for you. The Apostles knew better than you what Christ meant, and this was handed down through the laying on of hands of ordination.

We are the arc of the New Covenant those who believe. God promised to write His laws in our hearts ant to place it in our inner parts. The arc of the Old Covenant carried the law. God has promised to reside in our midsts, in our hearts. Mary who you call the arc of the New Covenant carried the Christ we who believe carry Him also. It is Christ in us that is the hope of glory. It is Christ in us that gives us to power to overcome sin, it is Christ in us that we can reconcille sinners to God.
We are a royal priesthood a holy nation. We have been called out of, to become saints of God to be salt and light to a sinfull and dying world.
Paul in an open letter to the Ephesians said we were given the ministry of reconcillation. We as a royal priesthood are to reconcille unbelievers to God by proclaiming His salavation and His forgiveness.
This is why the Roman Catholic Church is not the fullness of faith ----because it does not teach this.

 

[Jrush]

Sorry it took me so long to respond! Man, this thread goes by fast. LOL

Sorry I never read that, I thought there was only one mediater between us and God. Never one intecessor.

Our bibles must be different. I got the idea that asking some righteous to pray for you is a good thing. I got it from Job 42:8 let my servant Job pray for you. For his prayer I WILL ACCEPT. Read Job 42:9 last sentence. its real interesting let me quote it for you…AND THE LORD ACCEPTED THE INTERCESSION OF JOB. Thats who taught me intercession GOD. Why would God tell me that. So look at that, and you said it can’t be found. Never say Never. I FOUND IT. Another Catholic teaching proved true once again! Read Job its explains alot about intercession. Job was righteous and did not sin, God would listen to his prayers. Go to the end of Job, his friends did sin, God did not accept their prayers. Read it, thats what it says.

In this regard, yes, God answered Job’s prayers. But, then Job was still alive at the time - and Jesus didn’t come to the earth yet. * And,* Job wasn’t praying to anyone but the Lord.

Now back to why we ask the Angels and Saints and THe Blessed Mother to pray for us. I guess I will kinda let you figure that one out for yourself now, once you read Job.

I dunno about that…read what I said above.

By the way before we get into the dead saints and things. We do not believe in Death. we believe as Catholics that Jesus did indeed TAKE AWAY DEATH. We believe our dead loved ones become Saints once they enter heaven. Why because Jesus told us. We believe that God has to hear thier prayers because they are with him! IN HEAVEN!

Well, I will say that is interesting!
Since Christ took away “the keys of death and hell”!
But, I’m still looking to understand the part that I’ve bolded. Where is that proven in Scripture? Perhaps I’ve missed it!

 

[Hisalone]

I believe Peter and Paul honored Mary. Do you know of anything they wrote to indicate they did not?

Peter considered himself chosen and ordained, by Christ, to lead His Church, that Christ built and promised to be with until the consummation of the world… Peter believed in the infallibility of God, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Remember God communicated with Peter prior to His ascension and afterwards.

There is no evidence that either Peter or Paul taught their disciples to pray to Mary or to venerate her.
There is no evidence that Peter thought of himself as pope. In his writtings that is not communicated.

 

[rinnie]

We are the arc of the New Covenant those who believe. God promised to write His laws in our hearts ant to place it in our inner parts. The arc of the Old Covenant carried the law. God has promised to reside in our midsts, in our hearts. Mary who you call the arc of the New Covenant carried the Christ we who believe carry Him also. It is Christ in us that is the hope of glory. It is Christ in us that gives us to power to overcome sin, it is Christ in us that we can reconcille sinners to God.
We are a royal priesthood a holy nation. We have been called out of, to become saints of God to be salt and light to a sinfull and dying world.
Paul in an open letter to the Ephesians said we were given the ministry of reconcillation. We as a royal priesthood are to reconcille unbelievers to God by proclaiming His salavation and His forgiveness.
This is why the Roman Catholic Church is not the fullness of faith ----because it does not teach this.

I can’t believe what I am hearing. You finally came to the conclusion that Mary is the arc of the New Covenant. My Goodness hisalone after years you did learn something. Praise the Lord.

Now let me say one thing, You said that the RCC does not teach reconcillation. Lord have Mercy. And all these years when I went to confession I believed that by doing that I was reconcilling myself with God. I was always taught that if you were in sin, you must reconcille yourself with GOD (the Church). So tell me hisalone what is confession then, and why is it a sacrament?

 

[rinnie]

There is no evidence that either Peter or Paul taught their disciples to pray to Mary or to venerate her.
There is no evidence that Peter thought of himself as pope. In his writtings that is not communicated.

Please! So you are saying that when Jesus said you are Peter and upon this rock etc, that Peter missed that part or What! Are you saying that he forgot Jesus changed his name, or are you saying he just didn’t know why. Are you saying when he told Peter 3 times to feed my sheep, that Peter fed the animals then or what? Come on hisalone. What about the keys to the kingdom. Are you saying Peterr didn’t know what God was talking about there either? Give me a break. You have been through this a number of years now and you have never showed Scripture to say that Peter was not the first Pope.

THeres my proof, now you tell me why did he change Peters name? Why did he ask PETER to feed his Sheep? Why did he give PETER the keys to guard? You tell us.

 

[rinnie]

Sorry it took me so long to respond! Man, this thread goes by fast. LOL

In this regard, yes, God answered Job’s prayers. But, then Job was still alive at the time - and Jesus didn’t come to the earth yet. * And,* Job wasn’t praying to anyone but the Lord.

I dunno about that…read what I said above.

Well, I will say that is interesting!
Since Christ took away “the keys of death and hell”!
But, I’m still looking to understand the part that I’ve bolded. Where is that proven in Scripture? Perhaps I’ve missed it!

Could you please show me where Jesus took away the keys to hell! Where is the evil ones going, I thought when Jesus comes back at the final judgement he is separating the sheep from the wolves. And the evil ones are going to be thrown into hell? Where are they going then?

 

[CWBetts]

Sorry it took me so long to respond! Man, this thread goes by fast. LOL

In this regard, yes, God answered Job’s prayers. But, then Job was still alive at the time - and Jesus didn’t come to the earth yet. * And,* Job wasn’t praying to anyone but the Lord.

I dunno about that…read what I said above.

Well, I will say that is interesting!
Since Christ took away “the keys of death and hell”!
But, I’m still looking to understand the part that I’ve bolded. Where is that proven in Scripture? Perhaps I’ve missed it!

Not everyhting is in Scripture explicitly

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

There is no evidence that either Peter or Paul taught their disciples to pray to Mary or to venerate her.
There is no evidence that Peter thought of himself as pope. In his writtings that is not communicated.

You appear to be using a double standard in respect to your comments, “it’s not there.” Neither is sola scriptura, nor is it implied, but you espouse it none the less.

The Apostles taught to have others pray for them, do you doubt that they would have ask Mary to pray for them as well? Christ told St. John, “behold your mother.” Do you think St. John did not honor her? Do you really think the Apostles did not honor the mother of the Saviour?

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Peter knew and accepted his task as assigned by the Lord. He would not have written anything to appear boastful. But the others did write about Peter’s leadership, because they knew what the Lord had said and annointed.

**Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.

Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.**

Act 1:15 In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said (now the number of persons together was about an hundred and twenty):

Act 2:14 But Peter standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spoke to them: Ye men of Judea, and all you that dwell in Jerusalem, be this known to you and with your ears receive my words.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

We are the arc of the New Covenant those who believe. God promised to write His laws in our hearts ant to place it in our inner parts. The arc of the Old Covenant carried the law. God has promised to reside in our midsts, in our hearts. Mary who you call the arc of the New Covenant carried the Christ we who believe carry Him also. It is Christ in us that is the hope of glory. It is Christ in us that gives us to power to overcome sin, it is Christ in us that we can reconcille sinners to God.
We are a royal priesthood a holy nation. We have been called out of, to become saints of God to be salt and light to a sinfull and dying world.
Paul in an open letter to the Ephesians said we were given the ministry of reconcillation. We as a royal priesthood are to reconcille unbelievers to God by proclaiming His salavation and His forgiveness.
This is why the Roman Catholic Church is not the fullness of faith ----because it does not teach this.

St. Paul wrote his letters to the Churches, including the Church of the Ephesians. He wrote to the authority of the Church. While we can read and take from those scriptures, we cannot annoint/ordain ourselves an authority to make eccumenical decisions in His Church.

 

[rinnie]

Job was praying to the Lord? I thought Jesus was the Lord. That makes no sense to me.

Communion of Saints. Our bonds are not broken in death. The Church is not only those lving here on earth, it is also an eternal communion of persons made blessed in the Holy Spirit. The entrance of eternal life for those we love has not ended their relationship with us, There are 3 stages of the church. When the lord comes in glory all his angels with him, death will be no more. But at the present time some disciples are here on earth, others have died and are being purified, while still others are contemplating in full Light. That is why we know that for sure the Blessed Mother is in full Light with Jesus as promised.

Through perseverance, faith and love they have now arrived at full communion with God and stand before the throne of justice prepared to intercede for us. We can be sure that the Blessed Mother is there. She hears our cry’s for help. Our faith in the communion of saints is nothingless than our belief in the enduring power of Gods promise the life giving gift of the Holy Spirit and the unity we all share…

 

[1beleevr]

church militant: I congratulate, and commend you on your knowledge of the Bible! I have been a Christian for 42 years, read my Bible every day(haven’t for the whole 42 though), and am still learnin something new(Thank You Holy Spirit)! And I am well aware of Paul’s and others teachings about Christ crucified:thumbsup: Our church teaches this reality also, as part of our doctrines!I personally do not believe that just because you teach Christ crucified, that it condones, or validates wearing of a cross with a pdepiction of Christ on it! I have stated my reasons for not wearing a crucifix, and have said, that if you are comfortable wearing it, so beit; I just don’t understand it And I also don’t understand why catholics, in general are so anal about their religion, and take any hint of disagreement as an attack? It is one of the things that stands out when I talk to catholic friends! All of us Christians, regardless of affiliation, suffer some degree of persecution, or attack; but if we are going to follow Christ, we better be ready for it, and deal with it!

 

[rinnie]

Sorry it took me so long to respond! Man, this thread goes by fast. LOL

In this regard, yes, God answered Job’s prayers. But, then Job was still alive at the time - and Jesus didn’t come to the earth yet. * And,* Job wasn’t praying to anyone but the Lord.

I dunno about that…read what I said above.

Well, I will say that is interesting!
Since Christ took away “the keys of death and hell”!
But, I’m still looking to understand the part that I’ve bolded. Where is that proven in Scripture? Perhaps I’ve missed it!

Answer me this, Do you believe in the Apostles Creed?

 

[Hisalone]

St. Paul wrote his letters to the Churches, including the Church of the Ephesians. He wrote to the authority of the Church. While we can read and take from those scriptures, we cannot annoint/ordain ourselves an authority to make eccumenical decisions in His Church.

You could not be more wrong.

Paul when he wrote to Ephesia wrote to all the members see how he addresses them in chapter 1

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both F1 which are in heaven and which are on earth–in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who F2 is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding F3 being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

 

[Hisalone]

And again in 2 Corithians5 Paul is speaking to ever member of the congregation:

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[Hisalone]

You appear to be using a double standard in respect to your comments, “it’s not there.” Neither is sola scriptura, nor is it implied, but you espouse it none the less.

The Apostles taught to have others pray for them, do you doubt that they would have ask Mary to pray for them as well? Christ told St. John, “behold your mother.” Do you think St. John did not honor her? Do you really think the Apostles did not honor the mother of the Saviour?

Act 15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter, rising up, said to them: Men, brethren, you know that in former days God made choice among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Peter knew and accepted his task as assigned by the Lord. He would not have written anything to appear boastful. But the others did write about Peter’s leadership, because they knew what the Lord had said and annointed.

**Mat 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and thou, being once converted, confirm thy brethren.

Joh 21:17 He said to him the third time: Simon, son of John, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he had said to him the third time: Lovest thou me? And he said to him: Lord, thou knowest all things: thou knowest that I love thee. He said to him: Feed my sheep.**

Act 1:15 In those days Peter rising up in the midst of the brethren, said (now the number of persons together was about an hundred and twenty):

Act 2:14 But Peter standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spoke to them: Ye men of Judea, and all you that dwell in Jerusalem, be this known to you and with your ears receive my words.

You have failed, once again.
In all the scripture you quote Peter does not percieve himself as pope nor does he instruct anyone to venerate Mary. Stop putting up false assertions it is not there. You guys have built your house on sand.

 

[Hisalone]

Please! So you are saying that when Jesus said you are Peter and upon this rock etc, that Peter missed that part or What! Are you saying that he forgot Jesus changed his name, or are you saying he just didn’t know why. Are you saying when he told Peter 3 times to feed my sheep, that Peter fed the animals then or what? Come on hisalone. What about the keys to the kingdom. Are you saying Peterr didn’t know what God was talking about there either? Give me a break. You have been through this a number of years now and you have never showed Scripture to say that Peter was not the first Pope.

THeres my proof, now you tell me why did he change Peters name? Why did he ask PETER to feed his Sheep? Why did he give PETER the keys to guard? You tell us.

No you assert that it is here that Christ makes Peter pope. Peter never asserted this.
He changed Peters name in John 1.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You could not be more wrong.

Paul when he wrote to Ephesia wrote to all the members see how he addresses them in chapter 1

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He has made us accepted in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He made to abound toward us in all wisdom and prudence, 9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both F1 which are in heaven and which are on earth–in Him. 11 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, 12 that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. 13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who F2 is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

15 Therefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all the saints, 16 do not cease to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers: 17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding F3 being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power 20 which He worked in Christ when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all principality and power and might and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in that which is to come. 22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

The letter was sent to the Church and was not mass copied and sent to all Ephesians. The letters were teachings for the Church to share with the laity. We can take from those teachings, and share those teachings, but we cannot assume an authority and make eccumenical decisions on a definitive interpretation of all scriptures. Please show me an example of a person in the New Testament that received their authority by self-ordination, then show me scriptures that tell us to privately interpret scriptures for ourselves. It’s just not there…

 

[Hisalone]

I can’t believe what I am hearing. You finally came to the conclusion that Mary is the arc of the New Covenant. My Goodness hisalone after years you did learn something. Praise the Lord.

Now let me say one thing, You said that the RCC does not teach reconcillation. Lord have Mercy. And all these years when I went to confession I believed that by doing that I was reconcilling myself with God. I was always taught that if you were in sin, you must reconcille yourself with GOD (the Church). So tell me hisalone what is confession then, and why is it a sacrament?

So you affirm all believers are the arc of the New Covenant?
The RCC doesnt teach that all believers are the arc of the New Covenant and given the ministry of reconciliation.

 

[Hisalone]

The letter was sent to the Church and was not mass copied and sent to all Ephesians. The letters were teachings for the Church to share with the laity. We can take from those teachings, and share those teachings, but we cannot assume an authority and make eccumenical decisions on a definitive interpretation of all scriptures. Please show me an example of a person in the New Testament that received their authority by self-ordination, then show me scriptures that tell us to privately interpret scriptures for ourselves. It’s just not there…

Not only was the letter sent for all in the church in Ephesus but it was copied and sent to other churches----how do you think there became more than one text. My assertion isd that we all have been given the ministry of reconciliation. Paul says as much. We dont get our authority from ourselves but from the word of God.