Protestants listen up

[Prodigal_Son1]

You have failed, once again.
In all the scripture you quote Peter does not percieve himself as pope nor does he instruct anyone to venerate Mary. Stop putting up false assertions it is not there. You guys have built your house on sand.

Because you do not agree with interpretations, does not make those interpretation wrong, or false as you so charitability put it . You have yet to provide scriptures that tell us without a doubt that scriptures were misinterpreted until 2009 when you infallibly interpreted them.

The Church built on rock has been around since the beginning. Protestant Churches have split and continue to split off from each other. Which one seems to be built on sand?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

And again in 2 Corithians5 Paul is speaking to ever member of the congregation:

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

See it’s interpretational differences here. He states, to those he’s addressing, WE are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through US. WE implore YOU on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. He was speaking about the authority of the Church and not someone who privately interpreted that to mean they can ordain themselves…

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Not only was the letter sent for all in the church in Ephesus but it was copied and sent to other churches----how do you think there became more than one text. My assertion isd that we all have been given the ministry of reconciliation. Paul says as much. We dont get our authority from ourselves but from the word of God.

Oh, please, I’ve been begging for someone to show me the scriptures that state the Bible is the sole authority of God.

See, everytime you see “word of God” you think scriptures, yet scriptures themselves referrs to the “word of God” as spoken or scriptures. You have subtracted part of the interpretation by limiting it solely to the written word, which wasn’t written until years after the death and resurrection of Christ. The canon of the New Testament wasn’t defined until much later, around 350+ years later.

 

[rinnie]

So you affirm all believers are the arc of the New Covenant?
The RCC doesnt teach that all believers are the arc of the New Covenant and given the ministry of reconciliation.

No I said that you finally admitted that Mary was the New Eve. I never said that we had the power of the Holy Spirit to give the forgiveness of sins. I asked you once and now I wiil ask you again, what is confession in the RCC if it is not reconciliation for our sins.

You continue to teach on your own authority. You do not have the gift of the Holy Spirit to forgive my sins. The RCC does. Are you saying that you have the power of the HS to forgive sins like the CHurch does?

 

[rinnie]

No you assert that it is here that Christ makes Peter pope. Peter never asserted this.
He changed Peters name in John 1.

No. you are doing to everything we say here, the same thing that you do to scripture. You are trying to twist everything around to what You want it to be. It does not work with the Bible and it does not work for us.

Peter said loud and clear that the Lord has chosen among us it is thru my Mouth. That is where Peter knew he was the leader of the Church. THe leader of the Church is called the Pope today. Peter knew when Jesus said to him you are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church. Jesus said it, and he did it. The Apostles knew it, we know it. Peter knew it. Jesus gave only the key to Peter no other. That is how Peter knew he was to lead the Church. My teachings come from Apostolic Succession the Pope, Where is your authority. I have asked you for over a year, you never answer the question?

 

[rinnie]

Not only was the letter sent for all in the church in Ephesus but it was copied and sent to other churches----how do you think there became more than one text. My assertion isd that we all have been given the ministry of reconciliation. Paul says as much. We dont get our authority from ourselves but from the word of God.

Show me where the bible said that we have the authority to forgive the sins of others. Show me where the bible shows that Jesus said to Us you have the Power to forgive sins. I can show you scripture where it was given to apostles and apostles only. You show me your scripture to prove you can absolve me of my sins. Thank-you.

 

[ppasa316]

And again in 2 Corithians5 Paul is speaking to ever member of the congregation:

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

I have been given this same scripture to imply that the apostles had the authority to forgive or retain someone’s sins. They say that is why one can go to a priest to ask for forgiveness and it be granted to them. The passage means that we are to show someone their sin so they can be reconciled to Christ.

 

[ppasa316]

No you assert that it is here that Christ makes Peter pope. Peter never asserted this.
He changed Peters name in John 1.

If Peter was the 1st pope then why did he give the same authority Matt 16:18 to the other disciples Matt 18:18

 

[racing59]

If Peter was the 1st pope then why did he give the same authority Matt 16:18 to the other disciples Matt 18:18

The suspense is killing me.opcorn:aq3w2

 

[1beleevr]

Heck, I’m still trying to figure out how reconciliation, and confession can be one and the sameConfession is an admission of guilt, whereas reconciliation is more like patching up differences, or what God did with us, through Christ’s finished work on the Cross; He RECONCILED us back to Himself:thumbsup: We were/ are able to enter His throneroom of grace, through prayer, and humility! And no matter how many submit support for the crucifix, It just turns my stomach when I see one Didn’t Christ remove not only sin, but guilt, shame, and gave forgiveness?

 

[guanophore]

I have been given this same scripture to imply that the apostles had the authority to forgive or retain someone’s sins. They say that is why one can go to a priest to ask for forgiveness and it be granted to them. The passage means that we are to show someone their sin so they can be reconciled to Christ.

This rendering is necessary for those who are separated from the Apostolic Succession. However, this is not what the Apostles believed and taught.

If Peter was the 1st pope then why did he give the same authority Matt 16:18 to the other disciples Matt 18:18

Both are true. There was no disunity among the Apostles, just as there is not between the successors of the Apostles, and the successor of Peter. This is what is called the Magesterium (teaching authority) appointed by Christ.

Heck, I’m still trying to figure out how reconciliation, and confession can be one and the sameConfession is an admission of guilt, whereas reconciliation is more like patching up differences, or what God did with us, through Christ’s finished work on the Cross; He RECONCILED us back to Himself:thumbsup: We were/ are able to enter His throneroom of grace, through prayer, and humility! And no matter how many submit support for the crucifix, It just turns my stomach when I see one Didn’t Christ remove not only sin, but guilt, shame, and gave forgiveness?

They are all parts of the same ministry. One cannot begin patching up the harm done until one admits one’s fault.

The fact that you find the cross revolting is a sign of how much you lack unity with it. If you are not crucified with Christ, and learn to glory in the cross, then you will not fulfill the works that God has prepared beforehand, that you walk in them.

 

[1beleevr]

church militant: It is obvious that you, like many are very sensitive about your faith; and because of this, you appear to have difficulty “turning the other cheek”! Personally, I have had my faith challenged, been acused of not being a Christian, among other things And it is only because of the Peace of Christ, that I am able to smile at them(as I would, if you and I met) and then pray for them! Just be grateful that you haven’t been persecuted to the degree that early Christians were

 

[1beleevr]

hey guanophore: So nice to hear from you again! It is always refreshing to be corrected by the likes of you! Now if I could only recognize you as an authority on things spiritual, I’d be set! First of all, I still cannot buy the NEED for confession to a priest. I do believe in confession, but I can skip the middle man(priest, thanks to Christ’s finished work on the Cross! And speaking of the Cross, there is no reason to have a depiction of Christ on it(that is ,unless you are catholic). We believers know that Christ was crucified, but we don’t need to see His body still on it! If your spouse dies, do you need to continually see the coffin, and maybe look inside to remember her/him? An empty Cross, does not necessarily mean that we aren’t in unity with Him! When did the practice of wearing crucifixes begin anyway?

 

[1beleevr]

prodigal: When I read 2Cor5:17, and the following verses, I can’t help but believe that Paul is relayin the message and promise of reconciliation and the reassurance that ALL of us can be new creatures in Christ!

 

[rinnie]

hey guanophore: So nice to hear from you again! It is always refreshing to be corrected by the likes of you! Now if I could only recognize you as an authority on things spiritual, I’d be set! First of all, I still cannot buy the NEED for confession to a priest. I do believe in confession, but I can skip the middle man(priest, thanks to Christ’s finished work on the Cross! And speaking of the Cross, there is no reason to have a depiction of Christ on it(that is ,unless you are catholic). We believers know that Christ was crucified, but we don’t need to see His body still on it! If your spouse dies, do you need to continually see the coffin, and maybe look inside to remember her/him? An empty Cross, does not necessarily mean that we aren’t in unity with Him! When did the practice of wearing crucifixes begin anyway?

Oh that is quite clear that you feel you can skip the middle man. But we go by the teachings of the church. And Jesus Christ is the Church. And Jesus Christ said there is a need, and we cannot skip the MIDDLE MAN.

Christ says we must confess our sins to a Priest. Because when we sin we wound our soul with Christ. Now you will not listen to my words, which I agree. I will not listen to yours either. But why not listen to Christs words.

For if the sick is too ashamed to show his wound to the doctor, the medicine cannot heal the wound to the doctor, the medicine cannot heal what it does not know.

Now please what do you think Jesus was talking there the swine flu or what. Surely you understand that he is talking about confessing our sins to a Priest. What other Doctor would I confess to you. I know protestants say we can confess to eachother and be forgiven. But thats not what God says. How can a Protestant say this after a confession:

It is in the name of Christ that the priest pronounces the Saviors mercy. I ABSOLVE YOU FROM YOU SINS IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT.

The Bible proves this authority. Read Mark 1:4. From the get go John preached penance is the preparation and condition for entering the kingdom of heaven. Proclaiming baptism of repentance for the forgivenss of sins. This repentance signifies a complete change of mind and heart turning away from sin back to God. Read 2 Corinthians 4:11 We find ourselves again at the heart of the paschal mystery dying in order to live.

 

[rinnie]

And as far as the Cross goes, and Jesus hanging on it. Thats what makes the Cross Holy. We adore you Oh Christ and we Praise You. Because by your Holy Cross you have redeedmed the world.

It is by that DEATH on the cross that seems to upset you seeing so bad that redeemed the world.

And if it upsets you so bad to see a symbol of Jesus on that cross. think how his Mother felt. Sorry Catholic’s don’t ever shut out the pain and crucified Christ.

When Catholics look at that cross we see that he freely accepted that cross and we accept our own responsibility for our sins that played a part in Christ’s passion.

Sorry if you want to take him off that cross, but Catholics know that it is not that Cross that redeemed the world. It was the BODY and BLOOD of Christ. Jesus who merited for us justification by his most Holy Passion on the wood of the Cross and made satisfaction for us to God the Father. There is no way you can separate the suffering of Christ and the cross. They were done together. It was the suffering and blood and death of our Dear Lord Jesus Christ that is on that Cross. Not putting our loved one out for everyone to see.

And the day Christians started wearing Jesus Christ on thier crosses are the day we all put him there. It is not just someone on a cross. It is the true lamb of God. It was the final sacrafice Gods plan for salvation accomplished.

 

[Hisalone]

Because you do not agree with interpretations, does not make those interpretation wrong, or false as you so charitability put it . You have yet to provide scriptures that tell us without a doubt that scriptures were misinterpreted until 2009 when you infallibly interpreted them.

The Church built on rock has been around since the beginning. Protestant Churches have split and continue to split off from each other. Which one seems to be built on sand?

No what you have failed to do is present any of Peters writtings in which he percieves himself as pope. This demonstrates that the dogma of pope came after Peter.

 

[Hisalone]

See it’s interpretational differences here. He states, to those he’s addressing, WE are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through US. WE implore YOU on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. He was speaking about the authority of the Church and not someone who privately interpreted that to mean they can ordain themselves…

No its not a matter of interpretation its a matter of reading what has been writtten.

Originally Posted by Hisalone
And again in 2 Corithians5 Paul is speaking to ever member of the congregation:

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Who is a new creation? Anyone who is in Christ, congregational leaders and newly baptised.
Who did God reconcile to himself? All
Who has God commited the message of reconciliation? Again All

 

[CWBetts]

No its not a matter of interpretation its a matter of reading what has been writtten.

Originally Posted by Hisalone
And again in 2 Corithians5 Paul is speaking to ever member of the congregation:

17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! 18 All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 20 We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. 21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Who is a new creation? Anyone who is in Christ, congregational leaders and newly baptised.
Who did God reconcile to himself? All
Who has God commited the message of reconciliation? Again All

“gave us” not “gave you” us=ordained priesthood, you=congregation. Sorry, you are misinterpreting the Scriptures

 

[Hisalone]

Oh, please, I’ve been begging for someone to show me the scriptures that state the Bible is the sole authority of God.

See, everytime you see “word of God” you think scriptures, yet scriptures themselves referrs to the “word of God” as spoken or scriptures. You have subtracted part of the interpretation by limiting it solely to the written word, which wasn’t written until years after the death and resurrection of Christ. The canon of the New Testament wasn’t defined until much later, around 350+ years later.

The word of God is the written word and the spoken word.

1Peter 1
23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever, F5
24 because “All flesh is as grass, And all the glory of man F6 as the flower of the grass. The grass withers, And its flower falls away, 25 But the word of the Lord endures forever.” F7 Now this is the word which by the gospel was preached to you.
1 Peter 2
1 Therefore, laying aside all malice, all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and all evil speaking, 2 as newborn babes, desire the pure milk of the word, that you may grow thereby,

The word of God whether wrtten or spoken has the authority of God.