Protestants listen up

[Walden]

I give you another scripture to support sola scripture 2 Peter 3:15-17. Paul declares that the God breathed writings are sufficient.

Where is that? Paul doesn’t declare anything in 2 Peter. Peter declares things. Not even Peter says what you assert. I’ll even post those verses you mentioned.

From the KJV

15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

From the plain reading of those verses you selected, I find no support for Sola Scriptura.

I was a participant on this thread a loooong time ago, but I’ve been lurking…

 

[ServantofChrist]

I don’t agree for several reasons. God can do anything the same Tree can be on both sides, it is a matter of perspective.2) The Tree of Life and the Tree of Knowledge were two different Trees. Tree of Life the Wisdom of God, Tree of knowledge the Wisdom of man and beast. No where in the Bible does it say the Tree of Life in Rev. chapter 22 is different from the Tree of Life in Gen.2:9. In fact Gen. 3:24 in forces what I believe, they way to the Tree of Life was blocked by Angels.Rev. 22:14 tell us we have the rightto eat from the Tree of Life through our Baptism( was our robes).Jesus unlocked the Tree of Life again to us by his death and resurrection."…and the shall hang him from a TREE." Get it? The Cross!

I corrected myself above between the tree of knowledge and the tree of life. I said it is a tree of life…one on one side and one on the other. they probably have the same function…and yes God can do anything…but if you are standing at this river in Heaven and looking at both sides of the river and see a tree on both sides, there is two.

We can eat from the tree of life now because we have eternal life through Christ…so when we get to Heaven, why would those trees provide eternal life when we already have it?

 

[racing59]

Hello racing When Jesus said “It is finished”, He meant the reason He came…to save us from sin and redeem us back to God was finished…

Hi servant, read what CW posted it hit the nail on the head!
Peace be with you

 

[racing59]

I corrected myself above between the tree of knowledge and the tree of life. I said it is a tree of life…one on one side and one on the other. they probably have the same function…and yes God can do anything…but if you are standing at this river in Heaven and looking at both sides of the river and see a tree on both sides, there is two.

We can eat from the tree of life now because we have eternal life through Christ…so when we get to Heaven, why would those trees provide eternal life when we already have it?

Bless you servant, you almost answered your on question in previous post. The tree of Life on Earth is not for physical eternal life, but Spiritual Life. That is the Heart of the Catholic Churches teaching> John chapter 6:22-71 is the Eucharist. It is the Tree of Life here on earth that gives us Spiritual life until we can get to Heaven and eat at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. It is the same Tree Adam and Eve could have ate from in Eden (Paradise). Heaven and earth come together in a Catholic Mass. I’m not even Catholic and I can see this. Show me in Scripture were the Tree of Life is different from the one in Eden?
Peace be with you

 

[ServantofChrist]

Bless you servant, you almost answered your on question in previous post. The tree of Life on Earth is not for physical eternal life, but Spiritual Life. That is the Heart of the Catholic Churches teaching> John chapter 6:22-71 is the Eucharist. It is the Tree of Life here on earth that gives us Spiritual life until we can get to Heaven and eat at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. It is the same Tree Adam and Eve could have ate from in Eden (Paradise). Heaven and earth come together in a Catholic Mass. I’m not even Catholic and I can see this. Show me in Scripture were the Tree of Life is different from the one in Eden?
Peace be with you

Please explain what you mean by “Spiritual Life” here on earth

 

[rinnie]

Oh, come on now, rinnie, you know good and well, that Paul was converted after Christ died; it was the thief on the cross, who asked for and received mercy! Still waiting for proof of Mary Magdelene being stoned! Gotta run to the store, wife gave me a list!

Now down boy, I thought you asked me who was the last person Jesus converted. Now that I went back and read it I saw before he died. I was thinking the last person he converted in the bible was Paul. I wasn’t thinking before his death on the cross, I was thinking just the last person converted. But you are right Paul was after he rose into heaven.

Now back to my question what APostle was missing, and what did he carry aroundwith him, And who was the first person who revealed that Jesus Christ was our Lord?

 

[1beleevr]

Uh-oh, Walden’s lurking Just hope he’s not like the lion in 1Peter 5:8!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Hey, prodigal, did you say that Jesus said,"I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, AGAIN? Could someone, anyone infer that to mean, that He had drank from the cup, and then passed the cup around(something not done in catholic communion)! And since scripture is not explicit, how do we really know whether He drank from it or not? And as for “Let this cup of suffering pass from Me,” any chance that His humanity, was crying for release from this mission; not His divinity, He knew what His job was! And finally, Jesus said on the Cross, "It is finished, which I believe meant, that His mission on earth was finished!

No, if I understand you correctly. Remember they were celebrating the Passover meal and Christ, the high priest, announced he would not drink fruit of the vine again, until He came into His glory in the kingdom of heaven. They sang a hymn, but Christ did not drink the 4th cup, He went to the garden to pray. While He was on the cross, He said, “I thirst” and that’s when they took hyssop and put a sponge on the end soaked with sour wine and once He drank that fruit of the vine, He ended it with “It is finished”. The Passover became the Lord’s supper. The Passover was of the old covenant and to be done perpetually. The Lord’s supper is of the new and everlasting covenant and is to be done perpetually.

Sorry for the delayed response. I’m on shift today.

 

[rinnie]

Bless you servant, you almost answered your on question in previous post. The tree of Life on Earth is not for physical eternal life, but Spiritual Life. That is the Heart of the Catholic Churches teaching> John chapter 6:22-71 is the Eucharist. It is the Tree of Life here on earth that gives us Spiritual life until we can get to Heaven and eat at the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. It is the same Tree Adam and Eve could have ate from in Eden (Paradise). Heaven and earth come together in a Catholic Mass. I’m not even Catholic and I can see this. Show me in Scripture were the Tree of Life is different from the one in Eden?
Peace be with you

I think I can racing here is why. As once Catholic you know this. O.T. always ties into N.T. right. now. The tree of knowledge and the tree of life are actually the opposite of eachother. Here is why. If you eat from the tree of knowledge it brings death. Spiritual death. Now Adam and Eve did that and brought us sin. Now the Tree of life is the Body and Blood of Christ, now you eat from it and you have eternal life. One brings eternal death , one brings eternal life. Simple scripture ties into scripture.

Adam and Eve brought upon us death by eating from the tree. It brought us physical death, and worse it brought us death of the soul, Now the tree of life, when you eat from it you gain back what was taken eternal death to your soul. Now its everlasting life to your soul. So they can’t be the same! Whatta you think?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Your saying the Word of God has never brought anyone together. I give you another scripture to support sola scripture 2 Peter 3:15-17. Paul declares that the God breathed writings are sufficient. Jesus and the Apostles constantly appealed to the Bible as the final court of appeal. Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for negating the final authority of the Word of God with their religious traditions saying. “why do you break the commandment of God for the sake or your tradition? You have nullified the word of God for the sake of your tradition” Matt 15:3,6. Even Catholic scholars themselves recognize, that it is not necessary that the Bible explictly and formally teach sola scriptura in order for this doctrine to be true. For example nowhere does the Bible formally and explicitly state the doctrine of the Trinity but it is there. You see you have to read more of the context of the bible to understand. If you need more help please let me know. God Bless

Hello ppasa316,

The problem is everytime you see the terms “word of God” you associate it with the written word and that’s not the case.

Now as you bring up 2 Peter 3:15 -17, it is specifically addressing the written scriptures, but it does not support sola scriptura and definitely speaks against private interpretation.

2Pe 3:15 And account the longsuffering of our Lord, salvation: as also our most dear brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, hath written to you:
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are certain things hard to be understood, which the unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, to their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 You therefore, brethren, knowing these things before, take heed, lest being led aside by the error of the unwise, you fall from your own steadfastness.

Only the learned should give interpretation so we are in full accord and of one mind and judgement, as scriptures tell us we should be. The Catholic interpretation was the only interpretation, until the 1500s when Protestants decided they could understand the Bible by themselves and better than the Church that defined the canon of the New Testament and preserved the New Testament for the Protestants to have.

Do the scriptures below describe all the Protestant denominations below?

**Php 2:2 complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.

1Co 1:10 I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.**

Martin Luther, who started the Protestant reformation, conceded that the Bible came from the Catholic Church.

“We are obliged to yield many things to the Papists (Catholics)–that they possess the Word of God which we received from them, otherwise we should have known nothing at all about it."

The irony of your argument that sola scriptura does not have to be explicit is Protestants deny the primacy of Peter because it doesn’t explicitly state, Peter was the leader of the Apostles, or they deny the Catholic Church was the early Church because scriptures do not say “Catholic”. It appears to be a double-standard of convenience to make an argument to me.

 

[ServantofChrist]

I think I can racing here is why. As once Catholic you know this. O.T. always ties into N.T. right. now. The tree of knowledge and the tree of life are actually the opposite of eachother. Here is why. If you eat from the tree of knowledge it brings death. Spiritual death. Now Adam and Eve did that and brought us sin. Now the Tree of life is the Body and Blood of Christ, now you eat from it and you have eternal life. One brings eternal death , one brings eternal life. Simple scripture ties into scripture.

Adam and Eve brought upon us death by eating from the tree. It brought us physical death, and worse it brought us death of the soul, Now the tree of life, when you eat from it you gain back what was taken eternal death to your soul. Now its everlasting life to your soul. So they can’t be the same! Whatta you think?

Are you saying that if you do not participate in the Eucharist(sp?) that you can not have eternal life?

 

[racing59]

Please explain what you mean by “Spiritual Life” here on earth

No you are getting deep into the Catholic teaching. I’m not Catholic so I hope to do it justice. There are two kinds of Grace, natural grace that we got at Jesus Christ redemption
on the Cross. Then there is Sanctifying Grace that comes through the Sacraments(Covenants) that is our on going Salvation. Paul says to run the good race. It is not that Jesus died for our sins was not enough, but we need to participate in the Cross. We need to die to our old self. We do this at Baptism, but what if we sin again and fall like Adam and Eve did.I contend Adam and Eve were not thrown out of Eden, just because the ate from the Tree of Knowledge. God ask, “Were are you”, God was talking about them Spiritually not physically. Adam did not reconcile himself to God. He blamed God for the woman. If they reconciled to God they could of ate from the Tree of Life and remained in Eden. Thus Sanctifying Grace. Once again I ask show me a Scripture that says the Tree of Life in Eden is different than the one in Heaven? Wouldn’t it take the Wisdom of God to believe in the Eucharist, that flesh and blood is changed into Jesus Christ body and blood? Can you imagine Catholics don’t have to what to get to Heaven to Eat from it?
Peace

 

[rinnie]

Here is something else to think about racing. THe tree of knowledge was forbidden from God. The tree of Life the Eucharist is a must to have eternal life. Another reason they are opposite. Darn I am not a big fan of apples. But everytime I know its the forbidden fruit I crave em. Now I gotta go get a darn Apple. Adam is comming home soon (dear husband) So im gonna make him eat one too!:tsktsk:

 

[racing59]

Are you saying that if you do not participate in the Eucharist(sp?) that you can not have eternal life?

Not at all! We have eternal life from Jesus death on the Cross. We get Grace to help us have Spiritual life on earth through the Eucharist.What a thought to have something help us on our spiritual journey on earth as Adam and Eve could of had. Why else would God put a Tree of Life in Eden?

 

[ServantofChrist]

No you are getting deep into the Catholic teaching. I’m not Catholic so I hope to do it justice. There are two kinds of Grace, natural grace that we got at Jesus Christ redemption
on the Cross. Then there is Sanctifying Grace that comes through the Sacraments(Covenants) that is our on going Salvation. Paul says to run the good race. It is not that Jesus died for our sins was not enough, but we need to participate in the Cross. We need to die to our old self. We do this at Baptism, but what if we sin again and fall like Adam and Eve did.I contend Adam and Eve were not thrown out of Eden, just because the ate from the Tree of Knowledge. God ask, “Were are you”, God was talking about them Spiritually not physically. Adam did not reconcile himself to God. He blamed God for the woman. If they reconciled to God they could of ate from the Tree of Life and remained in Eden. Thus Sanctifying Grace. Once again I ask show me a Scripture that says the Tree of Life in Eden is different than the one in Heaven? Wouldn’t it take the Wisdom of God to believe in the Eucharist, that flesh and blood is changed into Jesus Christ body and blood? Can you imagine Catholics don’t have to what to get to Heaven to Eat from it?
Peace

My only point was that the tree in Gen serves a different purpose than the trees described in Rev. If you are saying that the tree of life is the Eucharist here on earth, then we are not going to need the Eucharist when we get to Heaven. Therefore, I would believe that even though they are called the tree of life, the trees in Heaven would serve a different purpose.

Plus, to get to Heaven the Eucharist and Baptism are not required…the man on the cross next to Jesus proves this.

 

[rinnie]

Are you saying that if you do not participate in the Eucharist(sp?) that you can not have eternal life?

Goodness gracious honey NO. I am not the Good Lord. But I do hope to be on the left hand of the Holy Spirit. Just kidding. No Jesus said that! This is my Body which has been given up to you this is my blood. Remember what he said I am the bread of life whoever eats this bread will have eternal life.

 

[CWBetts]

My only point was that the tree in Gen serves a different purpose than the trees described in Rev. If you are saying that the tree of life is the Eucharist here on earth, then we are not going to need the Eucharist when we get to Heaven. Therefore, I would believe that even though they are called the tree of life, the trees in Heaven would serve a different purpose.

Plus, to get to Heaven the Eucharist and Baptism are not required…the man on the cross next to Jesus proves this.

You are mistaken. Baptism is required. The thief on the cross passed before the resurrection (sp). The command to Baptize (the grat comission) is not given until after Jesus rises from the grave.

 

[rinnie]

My only point was that the tree in Gen serves a different purpose than the trees described in Rev. If you are saying that the tree of life is the Eucharist here on earth, then we are not going to need the Eucharist when we get to Heaven. Therefore, I would believe that even though they are called the tree of life, the trees in Heaven would serve a different purpose.

Plus, to get to Heaven the Eucharist and Baptism are not required…the man on the cross next to Jesus proves this.

Wait a minute. Where does it say that in the bible. IT does not. Quite the opposite actually. And how do you know that we will not still have the Eucharist in heaven? We will. Let me tell you why. What is the eucharist. It is the living Christ. It will also be the living Christ in heaven. How its revealed I myself do not know that. God revealed himself as man in Jesus. He revealed himself as the Holy Spirit in the Eucharist. Thats 2 persons of the Trinity. 3 persons 1 in being with the Father!

 

[rinnie]

You are mistaken. Baptism is required. The thief on the cross passed before the resurrection (sp). The command to Baptize (the grat comission) is not given until after Jesus rises from the grave.

Bingo C.W. and thats what Jesus did when he went to the souls that were held with Abraham he baptised them, Then opened up heaven. Just like heaven opened when John the Baptism baptised Jesus right?

 

[1beleevr]

Hi, rinnie: I can’t believe that Thomas would carry all that doubt around with him, especially after spending time with his Lord! Any progress on the evidence of Mary Magdelene being stoned?