Protestants listen up

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CWBetts said:
You are mistaken. Baptism is required. The thief on the cross passed before the resurrection (sp). The command to Baptize (the grat comission) is not given until after Jesus rises from the grave.
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So if goto a hospital and share the Gospel with someone who is dying, cant get out of bed…they accept Jesus as their Savior then they die, they are not going to Heaven?
 
ServantofChrist said:
My only point was that the tree in Gen serves a different purpose than the trees described in Rev. If you are saying that the tree of life is the Eucharist here on earth, then we are not going to need the Eucharist when we get to Heaven. Therefore, I would believe that even though they are called the tree of life, the trees in Heaven would serve a different purpose.

Plus, to get to Heaven the Eucharist and Baptism are not required…the man on the cross next to Jesus proves this.
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I disagree! The thief on the Cross had a baptism of Martyrdom a baptism of blood. He confessed on the Cross and told the other thief to knock it off. The first fruits are the Saints like John the Baptist that died before Jesus death and resurrection. There is such a thing as baptism of blood.The Tree of Life in Revelation 22:14-15 is on earth blessed are they who was their robes…outside are dogs ,murderers, ect… You have the right to enter into the city through the gates. This is Jesus Christ Kingdom on Earth the Church, the Bride of Christ, and outside is all the evil.To partake in Heaven is the Banquet, the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. I don’t have all the answers, but it stand s to reason if one third the angels fell from Heaven, you still have a choice in the after life. Just a thought.
 
rinnie said:
Wait a minute. Where does it say that in the bible. IT does not. Quite the opposite actually. And how do you know that we will not still have the Eucharist in heaven? We will. Let me tell you why. What is the eucharist. It is the living Christ. It will also be the living Christ in heaven. How its revealed I myself do not know that. God revealed himself as man in Jesus. He revealed himself as the Holy Spirit in the Eucharist. Thats 2 persons of the Trinity. 3 persons 1 in being with the Father!
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I do not know for sure either, however, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit will not have to reveal themselves to us anymore because we will be there with them. So it would not make sense.
 
racing59 said:
I disagree! The thief on the Cross had a baptism of Martyrdom a baptism of blood. He confessed on the Cross and told the other thief to knock it off. The first fruits are the Saints like John the Baptist that died before Jesus death and resurrection. There is such a thing as baptism of blood.The Tree of Life in Revelation 22:14-15 is on earth blessed are they who was their robes…outside are dogs ,murderers, ect… You have the right to enter into the city through the gates. This is Jesus Christ Kingdom on Earth the Church, the Bride of Christ, and outside is all the evil.To partake in Heaven is the Banquet, the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. I don’t have all the answers, but it stand s to reason if one third the angels fell from Heaven, you still have a choice in the after life. Just a thought.
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I am talking about water baptism
 
1beleevr said:
Hi, rinnie: I can’t believe that Thomas would carry all that doubt around with him, especially after spending time with his Lord! Any progress on the evidence of Mary Magdelene being stoned?
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Oh darn it, When did you figure out it was thomas. I missed that. But you are right. it was Thomas. But no it was not doubt that thomas carred around with him. It was actually a wooden Cross. From that day on he carried it on him until the day he died,

Mary Magdelene came from Tradition. It comes from the early teachings of the Church that Mary magdelene and Hooker (sorry) were one in the same. It comes from the same teachings, and writings that the bible was composed of. Our Early Church Fathers.

Now see if you can get the second one. Who in the bible revealed to us that Jesus was the Lord, Before Peter did?

Anyone?

Also thats where the Trinity came from. Tradition. Something else not written in the bible. Also many things about the blessed Mother. The reason alot of the Apostles didn’t write or testify to alot of the Blessed Mother in their writings is because it was never questioned by the early church. Not until the Church’s started to spit actually. Even if you go as far back to Luther he agreed with everything that we teach about her. Ask the Lutherans. they are the ones who set me straight on that one.
 
rinnie said:
Here is something else to think about racing. THe tree of knowledge was forbidden from God. The tree of Life the Eucharist is a must to have eternal life. Another reason they are opposite. Darn I am not a big fan of apples. But everytime I know its the forbidden fruit I crave em. Now I gotta go get a darn Apple. Adam is comming home soon (dear husband) So im gonna make him eat one too!:D:tsktsk:
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rinnie you make me laugh!:rotfl: I still say the Eucharist was present in Eden. Eden was Paradise, I don’t think the rules of time and space apply there. Christ died for all past, present, and future. Two thirds the Angel fell from Heaven, that tells me you must still have a choice their. May be that is why I believe God would give a choice to unbaptized children. I have a problem with infant Limbo.
 
rinnie said:
Oh darn it, When did you figure out it was thomas. I missed that. But you are right. it was Thomas. But no it was not doubt that thomas carred around with him. It was actually a wooden Cross. From that day on he carried in on him until the day he died,

Mary Magdelene came from Tradition. It comes from the early teachings of the Church that Mary magdelene and and Hooker (sorry) were one in the same. It comes from the same teachings, and writings that the bible was composed of. Our Early Church Fathers.

Now see if you can get the second one. Who in the bible revealed to us that Jesus was the Lord, Before Peter did?

Anyone?
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Elizabeth
 
So, then you may be interpreted as saying that all things are not possible with God? There is no concrete evidence that says the thief did not go to Heaven as Jesus promised! We may see him on that glorious day!! I tell you if I got a free pass from Jesus, I would definitely take it; oh wait, I did, He forgave my sins and granted me eternal life!!
 
racing59 said:
rinnie you make me laugh!:rotfl: I still say the Eucharist was present in Eden. Eden was Paradise, I don’t think the rules of time and space apply there. Christ died for all past, present, and future. Two thirds the Angel fell from Heaven, that tells me you must still have a choice their. May be that is why I believe God would give a choice to unbaptized children. I have a problem with infant Limbo.
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But remember Limbo was never official Church teaching’s.
 
rinnie said:
I think I can racing here is why. As once Catholic you know this. O.T. always ties into N.T. right. now. The tree of knowledge and the tree of life are actually the opposite of eachother. Here is why. If you eat from the tree of knowledge it brings death. Spiritual death. Now Adam and Eve did that and brought us sin. Now the Tree of life is the Body and Blood of Christ, now you eat from it and you have eternal life. One brings eternal death , one brings eternal life. Simple scripture ties into scripture.

Adam and Eve brought upon us death by eating from the tree. It brought us physical death, and worse it brought us death of the soul, Now the tree of life, when you eat from it you gain back what was taken eternal death to your soul. Now its everlasting life to your soul. So they can’t be the same! Whatta you think?
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Adam was born on the sixth day with beast. Eve was born on the seventh day.The Tree of Knowledge is going back to the carnal nature of man,beastly instincts if I may. The Tree of Life is the Wisdom of God the Eucharist. Adam and Eve had a choice. I still contend if they reconciled to God even though the ate from the Tree of Knowledge, they would of stayed in Eden and ate from the Tree of Life. I just don’t think God is worried about or physical death, it is our spiritual death he worries about.Do you see where I’m going with this?
 
ServantofChrist said:
I do not know for sure either, however, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit will not have to reveal themselves to us anymore because we will be there with them. So it would not make sense.
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I disagree with you there. They better reveal themself. If they don’t reveal themself to you in heaven guess what. You didn’t make it. We are promised we will see the Father face to face in heaven. Now if we don’t see the father face to face in heaven:eek:

Its gonna be the man with the horns somewhere else. And trust me there are not horns in heaven. Not those kind!:eek:
 
1beleevr said:
So, then you may be interpreted as saying that all things are not possible with God? There is no concrete evidence that says the thief did not go to Heaven as Jesus promised! We may see him on that glorious day!! I tell you if I got a free pass from Jesus, I would definitely take it; oh wait, I did, He forgave my sins and granted me eternal life!!
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Read Matt.27:51-53 the dead came forth after Jesus Christ went to Heaven. The thief was in the Bosom of Abraham until then. A third realm were Jesus preach to them will he was dead and before he rose.There are three baptism accorrding to the Catholic Church from what I understand, Baptism of Water, Baptism of Blood, and Baptism of Intent. If a person dies before they are Baptized and wants to be, God would honor that.😉
 
rinnie said:
I disagree with you there. They better reveal themself. If they don’t reveal themself to you in heaven guess what. You didn’t make it. We are promised we will see the Father face to face in heaven. Now if we don’t see the father face to face in heaven:eek:

Its gonna be the man with the horns somewhere else. And trust me there are not horns in heaven. Not those kind!:eek:
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I think I am not making my point correctly… God reveals Himself to us in different ways…none of which is face to face. My point was that when we get to Heaven, God will not have to “reveal” Himself like He does now…because we will see Him face to face.
 
ServantofChrist said:
I think I am not making my point correctly… God reveals Himself to us in different ways…none of which is face to face. My point was that when we get to Heaven, God will not have to “reveal” Himself like He does now…because we will see Him face to face.
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Okay. I’ll give ya that one. I agree. As duke says on the bean comercial my wrong. I think thats what he says.😃
 
Hi everyone,

I just had a thought getting back to the Tree of Life. Moses saw heaven when he was on Sinai. As we all know there is no time in Heaven, there is are time and God’s time. Moses saw the Tabernacle and built it on earth the meeting Tent,with the Holy of Holies. The Tabernacle Moses built was not Jesus Christ.We all know Jesus is now the tabernacle. We also know there is no time in Heaven. Were I’m going with this is What Moses saw in Heaven is not what he built on earth, but they mean the same thing, the Holy of Holies were God dwells. Jesus is the Holy of Holies because he became flesh to reveal the Father to us. To see the Son is to see the Father. My point is the Tree of Life may not look like the same Tree from Eden,The Mass, and Heaven, but actually it is. See my point? Your thoughts?
 
1beleevr said:
Uh-oh, Walden’s lurking:eek: Just hope he’s not like the lion in 1Peter 5:8!
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😃 Definitely not the devil…

This thread is moving waaaay to fast for me to keep up with! I do go back and read all the posts I miss though. It’s interesting to see the different subjects that come up.

Carry on!
 
racing59 said:
Adam was born on the sixth day with beast. Eve was born on the seventh day.The Tree of Knowledge is going back to the carnal nature of man,beastly instincts if I may. The Tree of Life is the Wisdom of God the Eucharist. Adam and Eve had a choice. I still contend if they reconciled to God even though the ate from the Tree of Knowledge, they would of stayed in Eden and ate from the Tree of Life. I just don’t think God is worried about or physical death, it is our spiritual death he worries about.Do you see where I’m going with this?
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Look at it this way, they sinned they did what every kid does when they are wrong. They ran and hid from their Father, Right. Now God asked them who told you that you were naked. Now we know darn well God knew why, RIght! Now God gives them every chance to confess their sin, but instead they run and hide and then start doing what my kids are FAMOUS for. Put the blame on eachother. Then he does what our kids do next try to blame us. Remember you gave the women to me. Now its Gods fault. Then ol eva blames it on the devil. he made me do it. See thats where we got that saying. The devil made me do it:D

It was by their sin and refusal to admit to their sin that brought the house down on us. Sin is why we suffer. Now it wasn’t fair but it is what it is.

Now God promises us someone to save us. Now it wasn’t fair either that Jesus had to pay for not only adam and eve, he had us on him too. see what I mean?

Now remember Adam and eve had original holiness for all human nature. Until they sinned then it was original sin for all human nature. Until Jesus came. he wiped out original sin. So now we are back to square one. If we sin, its on us. If we don’t we are in the Grace of God. But we like Adam can run and hide, or blame others for our sin, or face up go to the Father (the Priest) like adam should have and own up. Repentance involves a change in our thinking and way of life. Now all of a sudden suffering isn’t a evil anymore. Its a way we can make amends with our sin.

Now we get 2 more trees in a sense. Cain and Abel. One is good, one is bad. Another good seed, vs bad seed. Oh and the race goes on.

But you are on the right page. If they would have reconciled with God it would have been fine. But they didn’t. But even if they did and stayed in Eden they could not eat from that tree to have everlasting life. But the Tree of Life in the N.T. we must eat from.
 
rinnie said:
Look at it this way, they sinned they did what every kid does when they are wrong. They ran and hid from their Father, Right. Now God asked them who told you that you were naked. Now we know darn well God knew why, RIght! Now God gives them every chance to confess their sin, but instead they run and hide and then start doing what my kids are FAMOUS for. Put the blame on eachother. Then he does what our kids do next try to blame us. Remember you gave the women to me. Now its Gods fault. Then ol eva blames it on the devil. he made me do it. See thats where we got that saying. The devil made me do it:D

It was by their sin and refusal to admit to their sin that brought the house down on us. Sin is why we suffer. Now it wasn’t fair but it is what it is.

Now God promises us someone to save us. Now it wasn’t fair either that Jesus had to pay for not only adam and eve, he had us on him too. see what I mean?

Now remember Adam and eve had original holiness for all human nature. Until they sinned then it was original sin for all human nature. Until Jesus came. he wiped out original sin. So now we are back to square one. If we sin, its on us. If we don’t we are in the Grace of God. But we like Adam can run and hide, or blame others for our sin, or face up go to the Father (the Priest) like adam should have and own up. Repentance involves a change in our thinking and way of life. Now all of a sudden suffering isn’t a evil anymore. Its a way we can make amends with our sin.

Now we get 2 more trees in a sense. Cain and Abel. One is good, one is bad. Another good seed, vs bad seed. Oh and the race goes on.

But you are on the right page. If they would have reconciled with God it would have been fine. But they didn’t. But even if they did and stayed in Eden they could not eat from that tree to have everlasting life. But the Tree of Life in the N.T. we must eat from.
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I agree with most of what you said. You see reconciliation was the key! I suggest if they had reconciled themselves to God, they may still have suffered a physical death ( cause and effect of sin), but they could have had Spiritual life and may be then Cain and Able would not have been born so different.The seed of God and the seed of the devil.The Tree of Life would have to be the Eucharist. Adam did not do what Jesus did, lay his life down for his bride, he passed the buck.You are right two trees formed from this act of sin, the line of Cain and the Holy line of Seth. God still put curses on the earth after the fall and those curses were not lifted until the flood and Noah. I still suggest Adam could of ate from the Tree of Life and leap into battle with the devil. He didn’t, he remained silent and let Eve do all the Spiritual battle and the devil wear her done. I still think if they reconciled the could of ate from the Tree of Life and remained in Eden.We all have a choice, but God never fails to give us a way out of sin."…and lead us not into temptation".
 
rinnie, another thought. The nakedness in Gen.3 I suggest was not physical nakedness, but Spiritual. That’s when the Battle of the Sexes started because Adam and Eve could see each others weakness. Genesis chapter 9 Ham say his father’s nakedness, Noah got drunk and passed out. Ham then proceeded to take his mother and out of that Canaan was born.The seed of the devil went on. Also isn’t it funny that women like Eve do most the Spiritual battles in families? That is not the way God designed it.Men should do the spiritual battling as spiritual heads of families according to Scripture, but many men fail to see this, just like Adam failed to see. Jesus didn’t he died for his Church(Bride).
 
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