Protestants lose members to 'unaffiliated'

[chewchoo]

chewchoo:As painful as it was, yes, I finally forgave my ex-wife! I never hated her, just felt deep hurt by her actions! By the grace of my Holy Father(God), I was able to walk through the dark valley,my hand in His, and come out the other side, healed! And the thing about public figures, including the still ongoing priest sexual abuse cases, I wasn’t condemning the entire catholic chuech, just saying, it looks pretty bad when your president, or other prominent people, whom we know are catholic, get exposed in unethical behavior Non-catholics are just as guilty, and we all know of leaders who have been publicly humiliated! Does this mean that non-catholics teach adultery is okay, or murder, or violation of any of the Ten Commandments is okay? Of course not; but even priests, pastors, and yes, even the pope is vulnerable to sin! The beauty of grace and mercy is illuminated, by our weakness(flesh), and we know our Saviour is there for us!

the catholic church gets much more scrutiny than any other church because the devil knows that if it falls all of christendom will fall with it. the media ruthlessly points out any error, any hiccup, of any catholic. the priest sex abuse scandal was/is awful. i’m not going to brush it aside. BUT, based on percentages, in schools, other religions, any where, the rate of pedophilia is the same in every population, it is just not publizied as much. the devil and his cohorts want the catholic church to fail. but, we know how the story ends. God does win in the end. and so the catholic church will continue to be persecuted in many ways and on many levels, but it will survive!!..in spite of its membership!

 

[chewchoo]

prmergerown, boy! Whew; it’s not about what catholicism or non-catholicism teaches, it’s actually partly about hypocrisy! My friend, whom I referred to in regards to living with, and fathering two children with, while remaining married, is very arrogant, and says, “I’m catholic, and proud of it!” I know what the Bible teaches about marriage and divorce. Sometimes people get married in a church, profess their undying love for each other before hundreds of witnesses, but God may not be “in” the marriage! I know He hates divorce, but He does not hate divorced people! And, unless you’re going out to homeless shelters, feeding, and or clothing, witnessing to the lost for your King(Matthew 28:19-20), and turning the other cheek yourself, on a regular basis, then you need to put the stone down, before you hurt yourself. Personally, my hands are empty:thumbsup:

true, God doesn’t hate divorced people. but the catholic church teaches that if you have been married before, and then divorced and remarried then you are STILL committing adultry. yes it is true. marriage is a covenant between a man and a woman and God. we have the anullment process in the catholic church, what some people call the catholic divorce, but not every anullment is granted. and if you are one of those that does not receive an anullment then you must not remarry. you must live a chaste, single life, because in the eyes of the Church and God you are still married. your friend is an arrogant catholic, but don’t use his brush to paint every catholic you come into contact with.

 

[1beleevr]

chewchoo: I’m not sure I could totally agree with your statement, that if the catholic church fails, all of Christendom would also! Jesus is the same today as he was then and will be tomorrow! As long as we have Him, and I mean ALL Christians, we have hope! And I was not aware that only 5% of child molesters were homosexual! Well, when you think about who they are; brothers, fathers, uncles, grandfathers, priests, congressmen,etc.,etc.,! The priest sex abuse scandal was devastating, not only for the catholic church,but for mankind, and Christians everywhere! But it highlighted the weakness of the flesh, but also the power and glory of God:thumbsup:

 

[chewchoo]

chewchoo: I’m not sure I could totally agree with your statement, that if the catholic church fails, all of Christendom would also! Jesus is the same today as he was then and will be tomorrow! As long as we have Him, and I mean ALL Christians, we have hope! And I was not aware that only 5% of child molesters were homosexual! Well, when you think about who they are; brothers, fathers, uncles, grandfathers, priests, congressmen,etc.,etc.,! The priest sex abuse scandal was devastating, not only for the catholic church,but for mankind, and Christians everywhere! But it highlighted the weakness of the flesh, but also the power and glory of God:thumbsup:

i’m not asking you to agree with that statement. in fact, probably all protestants would agree with you, but the fact of the matter is, the Catholic Church is the church that Christ founded, and it is the church that the gates of hell will not prevail against. all other christian churches are splinters of Christ’s church, the catholic church. splinters will not last long if the main beam is destroyed.

 

[1beleevr]

prmerger: I know all about painting the whole with the same broad brush! In my profession, when one of us gets in trouble, and it gets media attention, the public tends to look at all of us the same way!I was also trying to point out the fallacy of hiding behind your religion or title when caught in immoral or unethical situations! Never really understood the annulment provision in the catholic church! My current wife, was telling me about one of her ex-boyfriends, who was a practicing catholic, who, when he was married, had children, and then asked for an annulment, saying they had not consummated the marriage! I said, please tell me you’re kidding, no one is that ignorant!"

 

[PRmerger]

prmergerown, boy!

Whatever do you mean by this?

 

[PRmerger]

And, unless you’re feeding, and or clothing, witnessing to the lost for your King(Matthew 28:19-20), and turning the other cheek yourself, on a regular basis,

Well, actually, I am doing these things on a regular basis.

So, now can we get back to the discussion:

Catholics often leave the church because they disagree with the Church’s (i.e Christ’s) teaching on divorce. They shop for a church that fits their "theology’–and there’s about 40,000 denominations for them to choose from!

Although every “Bible” church says that they follow Christ’s teachings on divorce, it seems that the Catholic Church is the only one that does not claim to be able to edit Christ’s teaching and will refuse to marry someone who’s divorced.

Your church sounds like one of those that has edited His message to suit the world.

I’m just saying.

 

[BCven86]

I once was a prominent member of Intervarsity Christian Fellowship, a non-denominational group, but have since returned to the Church(I was baptized Catholic as an infant).

The real question here is whether we are truly living out the life that was meant for us, a life lived in the fullness of God’s teaching and Truth. Although non-denoms argue that all Christian denominations teach the essential message of the Gospel (that Christ came to die for us so that we might be saved), a deeper look into the theology of different denominations reveals that the teachings are mutually exclusive and that it is not possible that they all teach the Truth.

Non-denoms argue from the Bible, that if it is said in the Bible it is True. Catholics point out that the important teaching to follow isn’t specifically the Bible but instead the fullness of Apostolic teaching (which includes the Bible). Given that the only thing Christ left us were his Apostles and disciples, it is necessary that we strictly follow what this Apostolic teaching is, otherwise the religion that you are following isn’t completely Christian but instead a mix of what is Christian and what has been created from relative personal thought.

There are several ways to come to know this True Christian doctrine. The Bible, yes, is direct Apostolic teaching; but the Bible only offers writings of a few of the Apostles… What about Thomas, who traveled and taught in India? What about the many others that stayed in the middle east, or those that when places other than Peter, Paul, John, etc? What if the writings included in the Bible did not include all of what Peter, Paul, John, etc. actually taught as they traveled from town to town? How would we know?

It turns out that each one of the Apostles had many of their own desciples, and that many of these people also wrote extensively on what the Apostles had taught them. Combining these subsequent texts allows us to grasp a better picture of what the True and Fullness of Christ’s teaching through the Apostles is, and thus we can see what True Christianity is.

If you look at the teachings of the Apostle’s through the early Church even at a superficial level we are able to see that virtually all non-denominational Churches do not fall into this teaching, and thus cannot be said to teach the fullness of what Christ taught through his Apostles, and thus I would not say that these Churches are “fully” Christian.

Given that this is the proper method to come to know the fullness of Christ’s teaching, there is a very strong argument (I would call it an overpowering one) that the Catholic Church is the only one that does teach the fullness of what Christ taught.

1beleevr: I understand that you take great joy in serving others, by washing their feet, etc. I know that you take great joy in helping to bring others to Christ through your Church. Have you ever considered that you only know parts of Christ, and parts of his teaching, rather than the whole thing? If Christ and his Apostles taught a more extensive Gospel, wouldn’t you want to follow it with every ounce of who you are? Wouldn’t you suppose that living within the fullness of this teaching would be the best path for yourself? Could you blame Catholics for wanting to bring others to the fullness of the Gospel rather than only a “half-Gospel”?

As a faithful Catholic you would be able to receive many times more of God’s love and grace than you do now. Think about how much you feel that now, and multiply it by a million… pretty good huh? I would definitely recommend it.

-BC

 

[BCven86]

Oh, and 1beleevr: I don’t mean to take shots at you, but your exclamation points are way overly excessive. Your killing me.

 

[1beleevr]

prmerger: It just sounded like you were getting a bit wound up! I do not know if our church edited the Word to suit “our” world, but we didn’t add anything either.What type of service do you perform for your Lord? And could someone tell me what Matthew 19:9, means, without a catholic slant

 

[1beleevr]

bcven86: W-O-W! You said a mouthful.It sounds like you’re satisfied with your decision to become a catholic; although I have never understood infant baptism, you know, the need.Do babies know what’s going on? Thank you for the invitation, but just like with the Mormons, too many things I can’t agree with, least of all, the obligation to confess sins to a mere mortal man, and accepting the pope as the leader of all Christendom. 1John 1:9, John tells us that if we confess our sins unto Him, He is faithful to forgive. Mary may not have been a perpetual virginHave you ever noticed, that when someone leaves ajob, school, or church, they almost immediately start badmouthing their formers? I don’t bash or condemn, just disagree; which is taken as hate, or bashing by some Anyway, bc, may the grace of our Holy Father(God) be upon you. Bless you my brother in Christ!!!

 

[PRmerger]

prmerger:** I do not know **if our church edited the Word to suit “our” world, but we didn’t add anything either.

That’s a huge gap, then, in your theology, if you can’t be sure if your church edits the Word!

What type of service do you perform for your Lord?

I’m a Catholic wife, mommy, daughter, sister, professional, parishioner, member of a neighborhood so I perform all the services that accompany those roles.

And could someone tell me what Matthew 19:9, means, without a catholic slant

Why would anyone want to do that? That would be like asking someone to interpret this
*
For shame! deny that thou bear’st love to any,
Who for thyself art so unprovident *

without a Shakespearean slant

 

[PRmerger]

although I have never understood infant baptism, you know, the need.

So how is it that you believe that babies are saved? Certainly, you would agree that it’s through the atoning blood of Christ. So then does this child, at a certain point, lose his salvation until he then says the Sinner’s Prayer?

Which brings me to anther question, 1beleevr–do you believe that someone can lose his salvation?

 

[chewchoo]

thank you, BC, this is beautiful

I once was a prominent member of Intervarsity Christian Fellowship, a non-denominational group, but have since returned to the Church(I was baptized Catholic as an infant).

The real question here is whether we are truly living out the life that was meant for us, a life lived in the fullness of God’s teaching and Truth. Although non-denoms argue that all Christian denominations teach the essential message of the Gospel (that Christ came to die for us so that we might be saved), a deeper look into the theology of different denominations reveals that the teachings are mutually exclusive and that it is not possible that they all teach the Truth.

Non-denoms argue from the Bible, that if it is said in the Bible it is True. Catholics point out that the important teaching to follow isn’t specifically the Bible but instead the fullness of Apostolic teaching (which includes the Bible). Given that the only thing Christ left us were his Apostles and disciples, it is necessary that we strictly follow what this Apostolic teaching is, otherwise the religion that you are following isn’t completely Christian but instead a mix of what is Christian and what has been created from relative personal thought.

There are several ways to come to know this True Christian doctrine. The Bible, yes, is direct Apostolic teaching; but the Bible only offers writings of a few of the Apostles… What about Thomas, who traveled and taught in India? What about the many others that stayed in the middle east, or those that when places other than Peter, Paul, John, etc? What if the writings included in the Bible did not include all of what Peter, Paul, John, etc. actually taught as they traveled from town to town? How would we know?

It turns out that each one of the Apostles had many of their own desciples, and that many of these people also wrote extensively on what the Apostles had taught them. Combining these subsequent texts allows us to grasp a better picture of what the True and Fullness of Christ’s teaching through the Apostles is, and thus we can see what True Christianity is.

If you look at the teachings of the Apostle’s through the early Church even at a superficial level we are able to see that virtually all non-denominational Churches do not fall into this teaching, and thus cannot be said to teach the fullness of what Christ taught through his Apostles, and thus I would not say that these Churches are “fully” Christian.

Given that this is the proper method to come to know the fullness of Christ’s teaching, there is a very strong argument (I would call it an overpowering one) that the Catholic Church is the only one that does teach the fullness of what Christ taught.

1beleevr: I understand that you take great joy in serving others, by washing their feet, etc. I know that you take great joy in helping to bring others to Christ through your Church. Have you ever considered that you only know parts of Christ, and parts of his teaching, rather than the whole thing? If Christ and his Apostles taught a more extensive Gospel, wouldn’t you want to follow it with every ounce of who you are? Wouldn’t you suppose that living within the fullness of this teaching would be the best path for yourself? Could you blame Catholics for wanting to bring others to the fullness of the Gospel rather than only a “half-Gospel”?

As a faithful Catholic you would be able to receive many times more of God’s love and grace than you do now. Think about how much you feel that now, and multiply it by a million… pretty good huh? I would definitely recommend it.

-BC

 

[1beleevr]

prmerger: Why did Jesus say, in Matthew 19:9, speaking about divorce," Or if she is unfaithful?" So, you go to homeless centers, feeding the homeless, spiritually and physically? You have offered a stranger a cup of cold water? Have you shared the Gospel with someone you met on an airplane? Matthew 25: 31-46 is a blueprint for what our Lord intends for us to do, while we are on this planet, regardless of what we believe! Why should we baptize babies; there is no precedence other than that established by the catholic church. WE can dedicate children to the Lord, asking for His divine guidance and protection. And no, I am not in the number who believe one can lose their salvation:thumbsup:

 

[chewchoo]

Why should we baptize babies; there is no precedence other than that established by the catholic church. WE can dedicate children to the Lord, asking for His divine guidance and protection. And no, I am not in the number who believe one can lose their salvation:thumbsup:

when the head of a household came to believe in the Gospel in Acts, he and his ENTIRE household was baptized. what part of entire omits the baptizing of the babies?
Acts 11:15, 18:8, and others.

so you think your salvation is guarenteed then? what is the basis of that guarentee?

 

[PRmerger]

prmerger: Why did Jesus say, in Matthew 19:9, speaking about divorce," Or if she is unfaithful?"

Ah, the “exception clause”. I find it defies common sense to believe that Jesus would say you can divorce if you’re immoral. Heck, every person wanting a divorce would have Christ’s approval to leave by just sleeping with his sweetheart.

It would seem, practically speaking, that a couple in your church wishing to divorce and re-marry should just commit adultery to get the permission to divorce?

Also, did you know that until the Protestant Reformation divorce was not permissible–even for “reasons of immorality”?

More likely the correct translation of the Greek *pornea *is as explained here.

So, you go to homeless centers, feeding the homeless, spiritually and physically? You have offered a stranger a cup of cold water? Have you shared the Gospel with someone you met on an airplane? Matthew 25: 31-46 is a blueprint for what our Lord intends for us to do, while we are on this planet, regardless of what we believe!

But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. Gal 6:14.

But, yes, I have done all those things except “shared the Gospel with someone on a plane.”

Did I pass the 1beleevr test for Christianity? BTW, where in Scripture does it say that those things are a “blueprint”. I don’t believe I’ve ever read the word in the Bible.

 

[1beleevr]

So, I guess we are assuming that there were babies in the households No one, not even non-catholic pastors, have given me proof, that I can lose my salvation! It doesn’t stop them from preaching it, though. Listen, if I could lose my salvation, I would have lost it by now! In this walk with Christ, which is now entering it’s 43rd year, He is the only One who has been faithful! I can see now that He was protecting, and grooming me, for the service that I now find myself deeply immersed in! God has a lot invested in me, and I can’t see Him letting me go! As far as the infant baptism, not saying that catholics, and whoever else does it, has to stop; just saying, that to me, at least, it doesn’t make senseIf a baby, born to a catholic woman, dies, three hours after birth, what happens to it? Are you sure that by baptizing it, you are protecting it from “original” sin?

 

[chewchoo]

So, I guess we are assuming that there were babies in the households No one, not even non-catholic pastors, have given me proof, that I can lose my salvation! It doesn’t stop them from preaching it, though. Listen, if I could lose my salvation, I would have lost it by now! In this walk with Christ, which is now entering it’s 43rd year, He is the only One who has been faithful! I can see now that He was protecting, and grooming me, for the service that I now find myself deeply immersed in! God has a lot invested in me, and I can’t see Him letting me go! As far as the infant baptism, not saying that catholics, and whoever else does it, has to stop; just saying, that to me, at least, it doesn’t make senseIf a baby, born to a catholic woman, dies, three hours after birth, what happens to it? Are you sure that by baptizing it, you are protecting it from “original” sin?

you’re not dead yet, and it’s not God who is going to let go of you, its the other way around. have you ever heard of humility? st. paul said only boast in the Lord. your posts boast a lot about your actions. who are you trying to impress here? us or God? God already knows what you do and your sincerity in doing it.

just because something doesn’t make sense to you doesn’t mean that it is wrong. if a baby dies prior to receiving baptism doesn’t mean that all babies should be denied that grace that Jesus gave to us. God takes care of those babies that never got baptized.

baptism doesn’t “protect” us from original sin. it removes original sin and allows us to enter into God’s kingdom. and just because you have been cleansed of original sin in no way means that you will sin no more.

 

[1beleevr]

Ah, the Bible that was written by catholics, forgot to omit the,“or if she is unfaithful.” And I don’t have a plan for Christianity, but God does:thumbsup: And I am not boasting about my service, I am rejoicing in it! Some catholics, I have met have regaled Matthew 25:31-46, but then said that they really don’t practice it! Ten years ago, I wasn’t practicing it. In my case, my ex-wife filed for divorce; she was the one having the affair, and had a child by her lover. I suggested counseling, either with a pastor, or a therapist, but she was indignant, and said she wanted out! What do you do? I know of at least two friends, who just happen to be catholic, who are married, but sleeping with other women( I have seen them in public with these women, and it is awkward, having met their wives), and one of them has 2 children with their sweetheart I wholeheartedly believe in the sanctity of marriage, and that it is ordained by God! But tell me, would you stay with your husband after learning that he was not only sleeping with another woman, but fathered children with her! And pr, don:shrug:‘t serve God, based on what I do,and have done; do it for Him! The Kingdom benefits, not you or I It’ not about us, it never has been!