Great! Do you have any examples of any infant dedications from the ECFs? From theInterestingly enough, I couldn’t find mention of infant baptism in 1Peter 3:21But, I did find in Luke 2:22-23, it mentions dedicating of a child to God
We have it from the Word of God, 1beleevr!
What if it is stillborn; then what? What scriptue tells you that the baby is saved? What did Jesus mean, when He said,“This is my blood, which is poured out for the remission of sins.” Did He say that we had to be baptized first? Even Peter said that we had to repent, and turn to God for forgiveness, before we were baptized! And, you have not proven to me that you can lose your salvation
Did the prodigal son lose his sonship, after he disgraced his father, and returned like a slave? Just because Peter told the believers, that the gift of salvation was available to their children, does not mean that it was automatic! It would be sort of like, if I graduated from college, and the president of the university, said,“the gift of graduation is available to your children”, does not mean that he will just give them a diploma for doing nothing
You can’t put God in a box,and make it seem like anyone who doesn’t see things your way, can’t come intp the box, and therefore, can’t enjoy God! So, in answer to your incessant and arrogant question; I do not believe there is a “mechanism”, by which babies are saved! If I even believed that such a thing existed, I would be claiming to know the mind of God! Still waiting on irrefutable proof, that babies are indeed saved, by baptism! Wasn’t Jesus dedicated back to God in Luke 2:22-23?LOL!! The only reason it was “incessant”, 1beleevr, is because you didn’t answer the multiple times I asked!
And what is the sign, to show that the baby is saved? Is it like a voice from Heaven, or a dove settling on the baby’s shoulders? Arrogance is not a pretty thing
if the prodigal son would not have humbled himself and returned to his father as a slave then he would of indeed lost his sonship.
don’t you think you are the arrogant one here? the sign is the grace of the sacramental baptism. it is a gift from Jesus.prmerger: Well, not really, but I’ll not belabor the poit, because I know how much catholics like to win, and have the last word!
Bottom line is this; I do not condone, nor condemn infant baptism, merely saying I don’t understand the necessity! The baby has not formed cognitive thinking, so therefore has no concept of what is happening to him/her; other than the water might feel cold!And I don’t believe that pr has sufficiently answered the question:How do you know the baby is saved? Also, no catholic on any thread, has shown me how I can lose my salvation I know that I can walk away from my faith; doubting that Christ is the essence of my salvation! I also believe that it is the blood of Christ that washes away sin, and not baptism! If that were true, we would have to get re-baptized on a daily basis!The most arrogant thing in the world is to declare, “I’m going to heaven and I am certain of it, and no matter what I do–even adultery!!–I will still be in God’s good graces.” :bigyikes:Arrogance is not a pretty thing
What does that even mean? How can you say that about Catholicism? What Magisterial document says we like to win?
The sign is a cleansed soul, a soul that was once deprived of sanctifying grace being re-infused with this grace. Original sin is wiped away–no sign of it! (Although concupiscence remains.)And what is the sign, to show that the baby is saved? Is it like a voice from Heaven, or a dove settling on the baby’s shoulders? Arrogance is not a pretty thing
Just to clarify, 1beleevr, I am not referring to you, specifically, in the above statement. I’m just saying that the OSAS doctrine that believes that someone is assured a place in heaven no matter what deadly sin is commited, is the essence of arrogance.
catholics don’t ever get baptized more than once, and the catholic church even accepts as valid those baptisms performed in other christian churches provided they baptize with water and in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit BUT… catholics can regularly renew their baptismal promises, in fact we can do that every day!!! and in addition to baptism we have other sacramental graces that help us to pay attention to the state of our soul. we receive Christ in the Eucharist. but we have to be somewhat worthy to receive Him. if we are in a serious state of sin then we must go to confession to receive God’s forgiveness before receiving the Eucharist. yes, we are confessing to a priest, who is persona Christi. believe me, confessing your sins to a priest is a better grace than just turning to God and asking Him for forgiveness, which Catholics can and do do. taking your sins to a priest and saying them out loud and asking for the Lord’s forgiveness and then hearing that they are forgiven is huge. yes, our eternal Father is very forgiving, he will always forgive our sins if we are truly repentant, but there is a certain courage that you need to take your sins to a priest and i think that that enhances the grace of our Lord’s forgiveness that much more.chewchoo: Uh-oh, here comes the rocks and glass house metaphor thing again! But what other position would I expect you(a fellow catholic to prmerger) to take? Can’t believe you are not able to see arrogance in her posts? Good thing I am learning to “turn the other cheek!”
Indeed!
Anyway, God is so awesome, and I am so glad that He has grown me through my trials, and tribulations! Even though we don’t always agree, I love ya, my brother in Christ! God bless!Indeed! God will never turn His back on His children…however, we can lose our “sonship”, by simply turning away ourselves. We can reject God’s offer, and we do, every single time we sin.
Certainly I would accept my son back, with the “joy in heaven over one sinner who repents”!
Hey like I said, if baptizing infants is a catholic(and probably a few other religions/denominations) practice, the I say, have at it! But please respect those of us who don’t perform them. Neither side’s babies are any better than the others, and God has the ultimate say on whether someone is saved or not; not man! After reading your post, about what “sign” I had that I as saved, I sat back and tried remembering back 42 years to what that moment was like! I felt feelings that I never had. I cried for the first time, when I hadn’t been injured or spanked. A warmth that I still cannot explain came over me, and I felt the change that was happening in me! Some call it “new believer’s euphoria”, which they say wears off. Trials and tribulations followed, and I wandered away from the Lord, with numerous occasions, where I was involved in situations where I could have been severely injured or killed, but wasn’t. At this stage of my Christian walk, God is revealing Himself in so many ways in my life, opening so many doors of opportunity to serve Him, and to grow me! When I talk about my exploits in His service, some see it as boasting or bragging, propping up myself, at God’s expense. I see it as shouting out to the world about His incredible work in whomever will surrender to His will, and do the work that He has laid before us. I think it’s both good and bad that we disagree, but it doesn’t stop me from loving you, my sister in Christ!