Yup. The only thing we know for sure is that infant baptism was practiced and has been practiced for over 2000 years and that infant dedication is definitely 18 years old–could be older but no one has been able to provide evidence of it.My great, and great-great, and great, great,great grandparents very well may have practiced infant dedicationNeither one of us knows for sure, do we?
I’m sorry, but I am quite skeptical that what you’ve given me is a "verbatim’ account of what he said, or even of what you heard.prmerger: I’m not for certain that it was Jim Blackburn who refuted the thief’s salvation, but this is how the converstion went: A caller was talking about the thief on the cross and how it showed God’s incredible grace. The apologist said the following, verbatim"Oh, that could never have happened; because this thief, would not have had time to come down off of that cross and get properly saved and baptized!" I have no reason to make up something like this, heard it with my own ears; almost fell out of my chairAnd my theology is not just based on the Bible, although that is a great place to start! And while I respect catholic apolgists, as I stated, like all men who opine about anything spiritual, I take it with a grain of salt! Sometimes I’m like Paul, with the scales over my eyes, until someone points something out to me, and I do a Homer Simpson thing,Doh!!
Could you please answer my question first, 1beleevr?
Since it is almost impossible to determine if anyone is truly saved; then it would be equally difficult to determine if they lost said salvation So the best way to answer THAT question, is to say," Was the baby really saved? Your church believes, as do many, that people can and do lose their salvation, but have failed to adequately explain how? Sin alone cannot remove salvation, or we would not require confession and forgiveness! I guess that I should add, that in keeping with my belief, that a baby(if it is saved by baptism alone) cannot lose his/her salvation!I’m sorry, 1beleevr. I’m not understanding you.There are so many questionsLOL! But if you are referring to an infant losing his/her salvation, one must be(regardless of age) be saved
o babies who die before being saved go to Heaven? I am franly, at a loss to answer that Do you believe that God in His infinite wisdom may have devised a plan for that, beings as He knew that some babies would die, perhaps en be stillborn, or miscarried, before being “saved”. My belief along these lines is not set in stone; just saying that you claim infant baptism for 2000 years, without firm support, and I say, Do we, or I guess I should say you know without a shadow of a doubt, that babies are saved by baptism, without callng upon the name of Jesus, or believing in Him and turning to God for forgiveness of sin! This is the plan that Peter laid out in Acts 2:38 for salvation, right? Let’s say that you, prmeger, had a baby that was stillborn; what happens to that baby?It’s your tradition (man-made, BTW), 1beleevr. Not mine!
It would seem appropriate that YOU provide evidence that it’s been around for a long, long time, not just 18 years. 
I appreciate your honesty, 1beleevr.pr: That is an excellent question
Yes, I do. In fact, that is what the CC teaches. We entrust the souls of those children who have died without Baptism to the mercy of God, (which is what we state in our funeral rites for them.)
Now, aren’t you the one being a bit “anal” about this?
I have hope that there is a way of salvation for children who die without Baptism.
By turning away from God, by saying NO to His Love.
I don’t think I even understand this question!
I was saved by my baptism, I am being saved, and I hope to be saved someday.
Yes, indeed I am. I was born pagan (as all babies are!) and was baptized into the one Holy Catholic Church as an infant.
I was just reading about the Jewish tradition of presenting, or some call it dedicating a child to God, a practice that shows that the child belongs to God, and has been entrusted to the care of the parents.To be honest, I do not know when it started, but I have been a Chrisian for 42 years, and remember seeing dedications in the 60’s and 70’s in California! There is no “visible” sign that I am saved, although some claim that when one is washed in the blood, they receive an unseen “mark of the Lamb”. All I know, pr, is that God has changed my life from the inside out, completely changing my heart, and my mind! He has led me from selfish,(a common human trait) to selfless, a God-like trait! Two questions I ask myself each day are:1)what have I done for my Lord today, and2) Does my life and my actions reflect Christ? While I am not sinless, by any stretch of the imagination, I hear Christ’s voice more clearly, when I am humble and obedient! Like you, though, I am human an vulnerable to sin. I know there is a change, because where before, I would find excuses for the sin, I am able to turn away from most sin, because of His presence in my heart! I am focusing more on Him, and less on the wind and waves! As I was reading some of your posts, Iwas reminded that the story of the lost sheep(100 in all), was similar to the prodigal son parable. Why would a shepherd, search so diligently for one sheep, when he had 99 others? Do you think that God does that with us? Like the popular song by Matt Redman says,“oh, no, You never let go, through the calm and through the storm.” Well, time to hit the sack, busy weekend of service to my King; street ministry, nursing home ministry, prayer vigil for our missions team in Guinea, West Africa. So, until we draw swords again, may the Lord of all Heaven’s armies, bring you and your family, peace joy, and the reassurance that He is always with you:thumbsup: Psalms 46:10You know, even if infant dedication is 100 years old, it still is a man-made tradition that none of the early Christians did.prmerger: I believe it was you, who narrowed it down to 18 years; can’t say as I am surprised by that either
However, infant baptism is something practiced and recorded in history for 2000 years!Ah, so it would seem that your asking what sign infants demonstrate that they’ve been saved is kind of irrelevant?? It’s just a* feeling *you had?
I commend you for your many, many good works, 1beleevr.
do you not read what is written? i never said WITNESS to a priest i said CONFESS to a priest.chewchoo: Just felt like expounding on the discussion about the prodigal son. Jesus spoke very often in parables, which today we sometimes call metaphors, or symbols! I was thinking, as I read your post about the prodigal, and wondered; what if you were able to put yourself, and your son(if you had one) into that parable. Let’s say that he did all the things the prodigal did, but returned, void of remorse or humility. Would he lose his sonship? Would you disown him? I believe that this parable is a picture of our relationship with God. How often do we(or have we) turned our backs on God.Does He reject us; does He say,“You made your bed, now lay in it!” Certainly, we must come back to the Lord,with our tail between our legs, hats in hands,humble and ready to admit our disobedience, and ask for forgiveness! Thank goodness we serve a gracious and forgiving God, who does not mark our iniquities!:thumbsup:Everything you said is really good; still sorting out what I agree with, and what I don’t! I applaud your dedication to you religion, and the comfort you feel in confessing. I have never felt the need to confess to anyone other than God. Courage to witness to a priestAnyway, God is so awesome, and I am so glad that He has grown me through my trials, and tribulations! Even though we don’t always agree, I love ya, my brother in Christ! God bless!
Hey, dude, it was an homest mistake, okay? Witness, confess; my bad! But I am not sure it would take courage to confess to a priest; unless that’s what you’re feeling. Been thinking about what it would be like, if I ever converted to catholicism. I would be a, what do you call them; “cafeteria catholic?” You see while the rest of you were at confession, I would be out doing street ministry! And I wouldn’t be able to call the pope, holy father, or pray though Mary or the saints. I would want a healthy mixture of old hymns and contemporary Christian music(Chris Tomlin, Casting Crowns, Third Day, etc) in my worship service. Instead of mass, I may be found at a park, doing an oureach for Christ! And I would want to hold my own wafer, and drink my own wine, or juice as it may be. And I do read everything you write! God bless! You know; let’s say you’re at a infant baptism, and when it’s over, how does prmerger know that the baby(ies) is/are saved? And infant dedication, ot presentation isn’t MY man-made doctrine, I had nothing to do with it; just have watched a few!An infant doesn’t know he’s saved anymore than YOU do, 1beleevr!!PRmerger: Our God is amazing!!! What an incredible weekend! And I still haven’t heard how prmerger would know if a baby, maybe even her babies were saved
You know POOF, you’re saved and there’s nothing more you need to do! This is just the beginning; salvation is a lifetime journey, involving trials, tribulations(John 16:33), teaching, learning and of course service to the King! Philippians 1:6 says, in essence that He wll finish the good works He has started in you, until the coming of Christ Jesus! So, I still believe that I cannot lose my salvation; it came at too high a price for Christ to not fight for and protect me! As far as me becoming a catholic, it would have to be cafeteria catholic, or noncatholic, those are the choices! There are just too many things I couldn’t accept or change about where I am in Christ!what about the fullness of Truth? how do you know with certainty that you are following Christ as he wants all Christians to follow him? Christ established a church, the Catholic Church. it has survived for 2000 years. why is a break-away, free church more true than the Catholic Church? if you can’t follow the Catholic Church then you can’t follow Christ. the Catholic Church is the house built on rock.As far as me becoming a catholic, it would have to be cafeteria catholic, or noncatholic, those are the choices! There are just too many things I couldn’t accept or change about where I am in Christ!