Protestants: please stop using the label "Bible-believing"

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I am a Bible-believing Christian. Of course I do not reject the Church of Jesus Christ.
I just reject the CC with its bishops, its dogmata, its “authority”, its magisterium, its “divine” revelations, its “sacred” tradition, its claims, its worldly power and its pope.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ and thereby I am a member of His Church alone. In Him I put my trust and my faith and He is the cornerstone and the solid rock His Church is founded upon.

While I won’t say that your filled with demons (perhaps you thought you were following the Holy Spirit but It was just calling you to a deeper understanding of your Catholic faith. not a rejection of it ). I will say that I don’t understand why you are so upset by the questioning of your faith. You have said equally harsh things about the Catholic Church, particularly our conversation where you told me that you believed that a Catholic, if he or she were saved, would be so in-spite of their Catholic faith.

Janet1983:

I would say that those Catholics who are Christians are Christians apart from the fact that they are Catholic…

Catholics who are Christian Janet? They are Catholic and they are therefore Christian. Have we not put our faith in Christ?

Who are you to:

Janet1983:

tell me that I am not Christ-centred? He is my life and He is my Lord!
This is ridiculous and not worth the time of debate.
Jesus Christ died for my sins

Because of my Catholic faith? It is because of this faith, which you think I can only be saved apart from, that I am Christ-centered.

You also told me that you didn’t believe that the Church leads anyone to Christ:

Janet1983:

God’s action is most important in this so that I can and will not declare that the CC has anything to do with leading people to Christ or keeping them away from Him.

So, with the things that you have said about our faith, where do you get off being all the sudden so offended when people question your faith? I just don’t understand Janet?

You are in my prayers Janet, not because I think you are of the devil or your Christian faith is, but because I consider you a sister in Christ and that is all the reason I need to pray for you.

God bless you Janet.

 

[JugglingReferee]

I am a Bible-believing Christian. Of course I do not reject the Church of Jesus Christ.
I just reject the CC with its bishops, its dogmata, its “authority”, its magisterium, its “divine” revelations, its “sacred” tradition, its claims, its worldly power and its pope.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ and thereby I am a member of His Church alone. In Him I put my trust and my faith and He is the cornerstone and the solid rock His Church is founded upon.

It’s so very sad to hear these stories, especially from those who were once in communion with Rome.

 

[soflochristmas]

I am a Bible-believing Christian. Of course I do not reject the Church of Jesus Christ.
I just reject the CC with its bishops, its dogmata, its “authority”, its magisterium, its “divine” revelations, its “sacred” tradition, its claims, its worldly power and its pope.

He who hears you hears me…Jesus, refering to His Church He established

 

[soflochristmas]

How do you know that the RCC is the one that is following Christ?

1. because it’s the Church He established 2,000 years ago
2. He said the gates of hell would not prevail against it

 

[soflochristmas]

In Him I put my trust and my faith…

If you really put your “trust” and faith in Him you would belong to HIS Church…the Church He founded. You would also believe ALL the things He taught…not just some of them, or as many of his other “disciples” (people like you who claim descipleship) said, not the “hard” things.

John 6:60 On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”

 

[greggy53]

I am a Bible-believing Christian. Of course I do not reject the Church of Jesus Christ.
I just reject the CC with its bishops, its dogmata, its “authority”, its magisterium, its “divine” revelations, its “sacred” tradition, its claims, its worldly power and its pope.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ and thereby I am a member of His Church alone. In Him I put my trust and my faith and He is the cornerstone and the solid rock His Church is founded upon.

So, you have developed your own idea, or concept or accepted someone elses concept of what they or you think the Church is…Not what scripture tells us the Church is. We too believe the scriptures that place Jesus at the Head of his Church. We also accept that he defined his Chruch, and the authority and leadership he blessed it with. It is very plainly seen in the Bible. You are choosing to accept your idea of what the Church is over what our Lord said it is in the Bible. Where do you get your authority to interpret the sciptures?

 

[po18guy]

There is no pope or concept of pope in the bible. Christ did not establish a pope.

Start another thread.

 

[Timbothefiveth]

St Peter was the first pope. Jesus founded His church on Peter (MAtthew 16:18) and Peter set it up with a pope

 

[po18guy]

God cannot or does He tolerate grevious sin. He is aholy God.

Please focus like a laser beam and see that it is possible to separate the sins of individuals from the truth which an organization teaches.

 

[Janet1983]

Because of my Catholic faith? It is because of this faith, which you think I can only be saved apart from, that I am Christ-centered.

You also told me that you didn’t believe that the Church leads anyone to Christ:

All I am assessing is that any membership in any church does not make a person a Christian. As a matter of fact I know quite a few people who belong to the CC and do not practice any of it. All they do is live their lives in Germany and pay the church taxes. The fact that 4% are going out of what they make and that they might go to church for a funeral once in a while does not make them any more Christian than the Buddhist next door.
The membership in a church is not of primary relevance to one being a Christian. Calling a church Christian can therefore only happen because of who is a member of that church (as a church is always made up of people). If I find only 1 person in that church who is a true Christian, why should I not call the church a Christian church? I would however still refrain from the thought that a church membership in that church would make one a Christian or that because it is a Christian church all members are Christians when they are not.
There are many people out there who do say that they believe and claim it over and over again and then they turn around and all you see is bad fruit. That does not really lead to the assumption that what they said is true. One leads to the other…
Mark 7:6:

He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

 

[po18guy]

The Bible establishes Peter as the head of the true Church. The Popes are the modern-day Peters. Please explain how you can deny this truth and still say you are “Bible-believing”.

Those who persist in denying that Peter was placed in charge of the Church, and that successors were elected to replace him, are simply blind and deny scripture, 1,976 years of history and the Truth, which is Jesus Christ. They have formed beliefs which are pleasant and acceptable to them. If a false teacher or a false prophet has not lead them astray, then who or what has? Let us all pray for them.

 

[greggy53]

All I am assessing is that any membership in any church does not make a person a Christian. As a matter of fact I know quite a few people who belong to the CC and do not practice any of it. All they do is live their lives in Germany and pay the church taxes. The fact that 4% are going out of what they make and that they might go to church for a funeral once in a while does not make them any more Christian than the Buddhist next door.
The membership in a church is not of primary relevance to one being a Christian. Calling a church Christian can therefore only happen because of who is a member of that church (as a church is always made up of people). If I find only 1 person in that church who is a true Christian, why should I not call the church a Christian church? I would however still refrain from the thought that a church membership in that church would make one a Christian or that because it is a Christian church all members are Christians when they are not.
There are many people out there who do say that they believe and claim it over and over again and then they turn around and all you see is bad fruit. That does not really lead to the assumption that what they said is true. One leads to the other…

Now you are trying to change the subject.(bait and switch.)…If you are a bible believer then you have some reason to believe in your interpretation of the scriptures…Where do you get your authority to do so? This is important because you have determined that the Catholic Church is not the Church that Christ established in the scriptures, and being a “Bible believer” you then would use only scripture to determine this?

 

[soflochristmas]

All I am assessing is that any membership in any church does not make a person a Christian. As a matter of fact I know quite a few people who belong to the CC and do not practice any of it.

Indeed…no Catholic here would disagree with your statement. But ironically, what you are describing is more akin to a “faith alone” theology than Catholicism or what Christ taught.

Take my three pages of quotes which you haven’t responded to yet. Do they describe a faith, Church (i.e., Catholicism) that believes you can make an “altar” call (no where found in the Book) and you are saved.

Remember…WE are the ones arguing AGAINST the way of thinking you describe above. YOU are the one arguing FOR it.

He who hears you hears me…Jesus refering to the Catholic Church.

 

[Janet1983]

So, you have developed your own idea, or concept or accepted someone elses concept of what they or you think the Church is…Not what scripture tells us the Church is. We too believe the scriptures that place Jesus at the Head of his Church. We also accept that he defined his Chruch, and the authority and leadership he blessed it with. It is very plainly seen in the Bible. You are choosing to accept your idea of what the Church is over what our Lord said it is in the Bible. Where do you get your authority to interpret the sciptures?

God has given us the Bible and with it His Word. We do not have to rely on someone to misinterpret it. We have the Spirit of God, the Comforter, to guide us in truth so that we can interpret Scripture rightly and so that our faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.
If we continue in His word, then we are truly disciples of Him and we will know the truth, and the truth will make us free.
1 Corinthians 2:5:

That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Romans 1:16:

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

John 8:31-32:

Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

 

[RNRobert]

All I am assessing is that any membership in any church does not make a person a Christian. As a matter of fact I know quite a few people who belong to the CC and do not practice any of it. All they do is live their lives in Germany and pay the church taxes. The fact that 4% are going out of what they make and that they might go to church for a funeral once in a while does not make them any more Christian than the Buddhist next door.
The membership in a church is not of primary relevance to one being a Christian. Calling a church Christian can therefore only happen because of who is a member of that church (as a church is always made up of people). If I find only 1 person in that church who is a true Christian, why should I not call the church a Christian church? I would however still refrain from the thought that a church membership in that church would make one a Christian or that because it is a Christian church all members are Christians when they are not.
There are many people out there who do say that they believe and claim it over and over again and then they turn around and all you see is bad fruit. That does not really lead to the assumption that what they said is true. One leads to the other…

The same can be said for many members of state-sponsored Protestant churches in Europe.
It is true that being a Catholic does not automatically make one a Christian, particularly if you never had any intention of seriously practicing the faith. But again, the same can be said for members of Protestant churches. If you were to disqualify ever church or sect because of bad apples, then you would end up not being in any church. As Christians, we are to be united, not operate on our own as “a denomination of one” (as many Protestant Christians tend to be. I (and the other Catholics on this forum) are Catholics because the Catholic Church alone has the fullness of faith. The unfaithfulness of some of its leaders or members does not nullify this.

 

[RNRobert]

God has given us the Bible and with it His Word. We do not have to rely on someone to misinterpret it. We have the Spirit of God, the Comforter, to guide us in truth so that we can interpret Scripture rightly and so that our faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.
I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.
If we continue in His word, then we are truly disciples of Him and we will know the truth, and the truth will make us free.

If the Holy Spirit is all we need to interpret Scripture, then why can’t Protestants agree on what Scripture teaches? St. Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians that God is not the author of confusion, so they can’t all be right (unless of course, correct doctrine doesn’t matter). As G.K. Chesterton wrote, “The Bible by itself cannot be a basis of agreement when it is a cause of disagreement; it cannot be the common ground of Christians when some take it allegorically and some literally.”

 

[soflochristmas]

God has given us the Bible and with it His Word. We do not have to rely on someone to misinterpret it.

Least of which ourselves.

 

[soflochristmas]

I am not ashamed of the gospel…

If you were NOT ashamed of the Gospel you would adhere to it. You wouldn’t REJECT parts of it just because it was “hard” for you to accept.

He who hears you hears me…Jesus refereing to the Catholic Church

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

All I am assessing is that any membership in any church does not make a person a Christian.

I disagree. I feel being a part of the Body of Christ is a very important matter.

As a matter of fact I know quite a few people who belong to the CC and do not practice any of it.

So that would not only mean that they are not practicing their Christian faith but their Catholic faith as well right? So what opinion should I draw on this when your opinion on the Catholic faith has been shaped by people who say they are Catholic but are not practicing, “any of it”?

The membership in a church is not of primary relevance to one being a Christian. Calling a church Christian can therefore only happen because of who is a member of that church (as a church is always made up of people).

For which you think there are Christians in the Catholic Church but apart from their Catholic faith. How is this not any more disrespectful to those faithful Catholics (not the 4% that you know who you think don’t know the Lord) than you think people are being towards your faith? A Catholic can be a Christian but it is apart from their Catholic faith? I am saying that if someone is a faithful Catholic, they are Christian. I am not talking about those who you think are not Christian (who turn out not be even Catholic according to you). You are telling me that a faithful Catholic may not be a Christian, but if they are, it is apart from their Catholic faith.

I would however still refrain from the thought that a church membership in that church would make one a Christian or that because it is a Christian church all members are Christians when they are not.

Can you be Christian and not part of the Body of Christ? Can you be a non-Christian who is a member of the Body of Christ? Can you show me an example of either situation? Perhaps from Scripture? I think being a member of the Body of Christ, His Church, is a grave matter.

My point wasn’t to rehash our dialog we had earlier but to show you that you have shared your own harsh words towards our faith. I was at a loss as to how all the sudden you can be so offended when someone said something that you thought was harsh toward yours.

God bless you Janet

 

[Janet1983]

So-called “bible believing” non-Catholics…what significance do each of the bible quotes below have to you and your beliefs regarding the relationship between faith and works?

Faith and works go hand in hand. One however is the cause of the other. All of our works will not save us, because we can never be good enough to get to heaven through our works. We all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God (Romans 2:23) and because of breaking one commandment we broke the whole of the Law. (James 2:10)
Jesus Christ however died for our sins. If we are true believers in Him and if He is our Lord He will guide us and His atonement is sufficient to make us right with God. (Romans 3:24-26)
Because we are saved we are able to please God (Hebrews 11:6) and because He leads us in Spirit and in Truth (John 16:13) we will bring forth good fruit. (Matthew 7:15-20) A bad tree cannot bring forth good fruit and unless we are saved we are simply that: A bad tree. Whatever we do will not be sufficient to please God (Hebrews 11:6), because of our sins. Through faith we are saved and He gives us a new heart with new desires (Ezekiel 36:22-32) and makes us His own. Because of this we will bring forth good fruit (Matthew 7:15-20) and through us Jesus Christ will be glorified and His light will shine through us (Matthew 5:16).
Jesus Christ Himself is our foundation. Because we do not built our life and faith on sand, but on Him, our faith will not be swept away once trials and tribulations strike. Because our faith is fully grounded in Christ we will not lose faith when the times get harsh. (Matthew 7:24-27) Because we are grounded in Him we will not give in or even deny Him the way Peter did. It will be quite obvious that we are His through the way we live and so the evidence will be against us… If we were to be dragged into a court for being a Christian we could not deny Him and we would not deny Him (Matthew 10:32-33).
In cases of persecution we might lose our life for His sake (Matthew 10:39) and become a martyr, but we would not deny Jesus Christ.
Without following Christ and our sins being atoned for by His precious blood our sins are mounting up. Even every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgement. (Matthew 12:36)