Protestants: please stop using the label "Bible-believing"

[Janet1983]

Yes double standard. You are offended by people’s opinion of your faith. You have felt the need to defend yourself by saying that you know Christ and that He is your savior. You have wondered who anyone else is to question your faith, all the while you make sweeping generalizations about Christians (both Catholic and Protestant) and their walk who you don’t even know all the while not seeing the connection between your judgments and the judgments of others about your faith that have offended you . That is a double standard. “Judge not, lest you be judged…” Right Janet?

I never told anyone here that they personally are not true Christians. It is up to every person to examine themselves to see that their calling and election is sure. I know people who think they are Christians, but their life does not resemble that. I don’t know you nor anybody else on this board and that is why I will not claim that your life does not resemble the gifts that the Spirit gives His children.
I on the other hand was called a heretic, my conversion or the fruits thereof were called demonic and on another occasion I was called a child of the devil. Do you think that resembles charity? I did not go ahead and judge any of you. I talked about people I know whose walk does not resemble a Christian walk. I never went ahead and told someone flat our that they are not Christians or even thought about calling them children of the devil.
I know people whose walk does not resemble their talk but I also have a friend who is a priest and he is absolutely sincere with his walk resembling his talk…

 

[soflochristmas]

I never told anyone here that they personally are not true Christians. …I did not go ahead and judge any of you. …I never went ahead and told someone flat our that they are not Christians or even thought about calling them children of the devil.

Well too quote an infamous president ofo the U.S…I guess it depends on what the meaning of “is” is.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I never told anyone here that they personally are not true Christians.

You did say though that if Catholics are Christian it is apart from, and not because of, their Catholic faith. Janet, Christ is the center of my life because I am Catholic, not despite it. The things I believe about Christ, Who He is and what He did for me, are because of my Catholic faith.

You also said that you did not believe that our Church leads people to Christ.

I know people who think they are Christians, but their life does not resemble that. I don’t know you nor anybody else on this board and that is why I will not claim that your life does not resemble the gifts that the Spirit gives His children.

You knew me and my Catholic faith well enough to say that if I was Christian it was apart from my Catholic faith.

Do you think that resembles charity?

I don’t believe your own comments have been charitable Janet. This is my point. Not that things said about you have been charitable or uncharitable, but that it is a double standard to demand charity of someone when your own comments have been every bit as uncharitable. I think people should be charitable period. Whether someone is uncharitable in return or not, but to demand charity when I show none? No I wouldn’t do that.

I did not go ahead and judge any of you.

But you have. How can you say that I may be Christian but if I am it is apart from my Catholic faith if you haven’t judged my Catholic faith? How can you sum up my Catholic faith as getting a “flu shot” if you haven’t judged my faith?

God bless you Janet

 

[Janet1983]

But you have. How can you say that I can because Christian but if it is it is apart from my Catholic faith if you haven’t judged my Catholic faith? Remember the Catholic faith, “is like a flu shot”.

All I said is that mere membership is not enough. You can be calling yourself a Catholic, a Methodist, a Baptist or whatever comes to mind.
If it is just a mere membership or going through the motions it is meaningless. I am not all-knowing so I cannot say whether or not that applies to anybody here, but it is the truth.
If it is handled like a flu-shot it is wrong and it does not matter whether that is the claim to have been baptised as an infant or praying a prayer at one point in time.
Tell me when you’re done with your personal attacks against me so that I can concentrate on the essentials again.

 

[Bill_Pick]

sheesh!!!

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5336751&postcount=102

Lets remember its the Bible by Hisalone and he is his pope,so you can see why you get the answer you do

 

[RNRobert]

All I said is that mere membership is not enough. You can be calling yourself a Catholic, a Methodist, a Baptist or whatever comes to mind.
If it is just a mere membership or going through the motions it is meaningless. I am not all-knowing so I cannot say whether or not that applies to anybody here, but it is the truth.
If it is handled like a flu-shot it is wrong and it does not matter whether that is the claim to have been baptised as an infant or praying a prayer at one point in time.

This is true. But it is also true that Christ founded **A **church. We are not to be spiritual Lone Rangers, with the Bible in our hands and deciding for ourselves what it means.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

All I said is that mere membership is not enough. You can be calling yourself a Catholic, a Methodist, a Baptist or whatever comes to mind.
If it is just a mere membership or going through the motions it is meaningless. I am not all-knowing so I cannot say whether or not that applies to anybody here, but it is the truth.
If it is handled like a flu-shot it is wrong and it does not matter whether that is the claim to have been baptised as an infant or praying a prayer at one point in time.

This is what you have said:

Janet1983:

I would say that those Catholics who are Christians are Christians apart from the fact that they are Catholic…

Those Catholics who are Christian? If they are truly Catholic and are living their faith they are Christian Janet. You can be Christian and not Catholic that is for sure. What I have a hard time accepting is a person being Catholic and not Christian. You seem to think that it is not only possible but probable, since you believe that our doctrines and “mislead” people and that the Catholic Church does not lead people to Christ.

Being a faithful Catholic is not enough for you to consider them Catholic. Why? Because this is how you view the Catholic faith:

Janet1983:

For the Catholics it might be their baptism and then you don’t see them again until they go to the 1st Holy Communion, after that when they go to confirmation and then hopefully when get married. On the next occasion its their child getting baptised and later confirmed, maybe married and then you maybe see them again when their spouse dies.

Even for the people that you described about, who are you to Judge? Isn’t that what you asked us? Who are you to question their walk? Isn’t this what you asked of us?

You also stated:

Janet1983:

God’s action is most important in this so that I can and will not declare that the CC has anything to do with leading people to Christ or keeping them away from Him.

To you, if someone is a faithful Catholic it is not enough to consider them Catholic yet you demand that we accept that your faith should be enough for us to consider you Christian

You then get offended when people question your faith and say that it is uncharitable of them to judge you… I am not sure if I can make myself any more clear in this Janet?

God bless

 

[RNRobert]

Lets remember its the Bible by Hisalone and he is his pope,so you can see why you get the answer you do

Back in the 1930s there was a Louisiana governor named Huey Long, and his campaign slogan was “Every Man a King.” The Protestant battle cry is similar: “Every Man a Pope” (except of course for the fellow in Rome wearing the funny hat who actually IS the Pope)…

 

[Hisalone]

I am a Bible-believing Christian. Of course I do not reject the Church of Jesus Christ.
I just reject the CC with its bishops, its dogmata, its “authority”, its magisterium, its “divine” revelations, its “sacred” tradition, its claims, its worldly power and its pope.
I am a follower of Jesus Christ and thereby I am a member of His Church alone. In Him I put my trust and my faith and He is the cornerstone and the solid rock His Church is founded upon.

If you are a believer and In Christ you are part of His Church. Its not a exclusive club.

 

[Janet1983]

If you are a believer and In Christ you are part of His Church. Its not a exclusive club.

That’s it. His Church is not an organisation we are part of, but it is the body of all true believers.

 

[po18guy]

That’s it. His Church is not an organisation we are part of, but it is the body of all true believers.

Lost in the shuffle here is any possibility of Christian unity. IF the Holy Spirit leads the entire Body of Christ, how come He leads Catholics, Lutherans and other mainline communions to believe that Baptism cleanses of sin; He leads Baptists to believe that Baptism does not cleanse of sin and is only symbolic; and He leads Evangelicals to reject water Baptism altogether? How does the Holy Spirit do this? Only one is truth, as Truth does not change. Just wondering.

 

[Bengoshi]

One more time: The calling of a soul away from the very Church which Christ established is NOT God’s work. If not God’s, then whose work is it?

Hi there!

The early Church was indeed “catholic.” However, this should be differentiated from the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, and this is well-known, there are “Catholic” churches which are not Roman, such as the Eastern and Greek Orthodox. These churches are not under the pope for they have their own patriarchs. The problem arose when the Bishop of Rome declared himself pope and infallible to the exclusion of the other patriarchates, which were Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, etc. So it would indeed be arrogant to say that the Roman Catholic Church is the only One True Church which Christ founded to the exclusion of all the other Christian churches.

By the way, a lot of the Protestant reformers were Catholic priests, so it can also be argued, using your reasoning, that Protestantism also traces its lineage to Christ and the apostles.

 

[Bengoshi]

Lost in the shuffle here is any possibility of Christian unity. IF the Holy Spirit leads the entire Body of Christ, how come He leads Catholics, Lutherans and other mainline communions to believe that Baptism cleanses of sin; He leads Baptists to believe that Baptism does not cleanse of sin and is only symbolic; and He leads Evangelicals to reject water Baptism altogether? How does the Holy Spirit do this? Only one is truth, as Truth does not change. Just wondering.

Correction, Evangelicals do not reject water baptism. Also, Lutherans do not believe that baptism is the operative act which cleanses sin. It is the blood of Christ. Remember, it was Luther who first posited that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone of the Bible alone for the glory of God alone.

 

[po18guy]

Correction, Evangelicals do not reject water baptism. Also, Lutherans do not believe that baptism is the operative act which cleanses sin. It is the blood of Christ. Remember, it was Luther who first posited that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone of the Bible alone for the glory of God alone.

Mea culpa! I should have said “some Fundamentalists”. Sorry. The point still stands: How didi the “Holy Spirit” lead them all to different truths?

 

[po18guy]

Hi there!

The early Church was indeed “catholic.” However, this should be differentiated from the Roman Catholic Church. In fact, and this is well-known, there are “Catholic” churches which are not Roman, such as the Eastern and Greek Orthodox. These churches are not under the pope for they have their own patriarchs. The problem arose when the Bishop of Rome declared himself pope and infallible to the exclusion of the other patriarchates, which were Constantinople, Jerusalem, Antioch, etc. So it would indeed be arrogant to say that the Roman Catholic Church is the only One True Church which Christ founded to the exclusion of all the other Christian churches.

By the way, a lot of the Protestant reformers were Catholic priests, so it can also be argued, using your reasoning, that Protestantism also traces its lineage to Christ and the apostles.

Unfortunately, your information is almost completely inaccurate. It appears that you have learned all about the Catholic Church from an “unbiased” Evangelical source. Please provide sources for all of your “facts”.

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

Also, Lutherans do not believe that baptism is the operative act which cleanses sin.

No that is incorrect. From Luther’s Small Catechism:

What does Baptism give or profit?–Answer.

It works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare.

http://www.bookofconcord.org/smallcatechism.php#baptism

Remember, it was Luther who first posited that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone of the Bible alone for the glory of God alone.

Shouldn’t you be saying that it was Paul who first “posited” this or Christ was the first who “posited” the above type of salvation? Do you really want to go with Luther being the first to posit this 1500 years after our Lord?

God bless you

 

[ufamtobie]

There are consequences for corporate sin just as thereare consequences for individual sin. There were grievous sins commited by the Catholic Church the consequences is a divided body.

Hisalone,

What was the first grievious sin committed in the Catholic Church? The answer is, the Betrayal of Jesus Christ, By Judas the betrayer.

Hisalone, Jesus Christ, knew that he was leaving his Church in the hands of men. And what do all men do? They sin! Every Catholic Priest is a sinner even the Pope. Jesus Christ knew this, yet he still left his Church in the hands of men but guided by the Holy Spirit in all truths.

If a priest has committed a Mortal Sin, such as molestation, that is is His doing not the Church’s doing, just as it was Judas doing, betraying Our Lord, and this was not the Catholic Church’s doing.

Regarding divided body, the Catholic church cannot be divided, if this were to happen that means the gates of hell has prevailed. Now any person who is not part of the Catholic Church, now that individual, he or she, is a devided body, by their own accord or by birth.

Ufam Tobie

 

[greggy53]

That’s it. His Church is not an organisation we are part of, but it is the body of all true believers.

Where exactly does it say this in the scriptures?
You said earlier that the Holy Spirit enables you to iterpret the scriptures correctly.
Because the Holy Spirit is infallible, do you claim to be infallible in your interpretation of scripture?

 

[po18guy]

Hisalone, Regarding divided body, the Catholic church cannot be divided, if this were to happen that means the gates of hell has prevailed. Now any person who is not part of the Catholic Church, now that individual, he or she, is a devided body, by their own accord or by birth.

Ufam Tobie

I am somewhat slow and dull-witted, but I stopped feeding him.

 

[ufamtobie]

God has given us the Bible and with it His Word. We do not have to rely on someone to misinterpret it. We have the Spirit of God, the Comforter, to guide us in truth so that we can interpret Scripture rightly and so that our faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.
If we continue in His word, then we are truly disciples of Him and we will know the truth, and the truth will make us free.

Janet,

You Silly girl, then Tell me why so many “DIFFERENT BIBLE INTERPRETATIONS” we have today? …Obviously Janet you don’t know what you are saying. LOL

Also, tell me when did the many DIFFERENT BIBLE interpretations begin?.. I will tell you when they began, they began with the Protestant reformation, and this Fact goes to show you that the Protestant reformation is not of Jesus Christ… How so? I will tell you, because from the begining there was only One Church and that One Church had One interpretation, and this Church happens to be the Church you abandoned for another BIBLE INTERPRETATION Church

So don’t tell us that one can not misinterpret the bible, again the Bible has been misinterpreted since the Protestant Reformation.

Ufamtobie