Protestants, Revelation and the Catholic Mass?

[holy_wood]

Has any Protestant considered that the Book of Revelation, along with proclaiming the end times events, is also speaking about the Catholic Mass?

The Book of Revelation and the Holy Mass

The Book of Revelation shows us glimpses of the heavenly liturgy – Jesus Christ’s once and for all sacrifice eternally present in heaven. This is why the Church has always incorporated the elements that John saw in the heavenly liturgy into her earthly liturgy, for they are one and the same liturgical action of Jesus Christ our High Priest.

Rev. 1:6, 20:6 - heaven’s identification of the priesthood of the faithful is the same as the Church’s identification on earth.
Rev. 1:12, 2:5 - there are lampstands or Menorahs in heaven. These have always been used in the Holy Mass of the Church on earth.
**Rev. 2:17 - there is manna in heaven given to the faithful. This is the same as the Eucharistic manna given to the faithful at the Holy Mass on earth. **
Rev. 4:8 - heaven’s liturgical chant “Holy, Holy, Holy” is the same that is used in the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 - heaven’s emphasis on the intercession of the saints is the same as the Holy Mass on earth.
**Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 - there is incense in heaven which has always been part of the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth. **
**Rev. 6:9 - the martyrs who are seen under the heavenly altar is similar to the Church’s tradition of keeping relics of saints under the earthly altars. **
Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 - there are priests (“presbyteroi”) in heaven. Priests offer sacrifice. Our earthly priests participate with the heavenly priests in offering Jesus’ eternal sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.

Rev. 8:1 - the silent contemplation in heaven is similar to our silent contemplation at the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 - there is an altar in heaven. But no altar is needed unless a sacrifice is being offered in heaven. This is the same sacrifice that is offered on the altars used in the Holy Masses on earth.
Rev. 12:1-6, 13-17 - heaven’s emphasis on the Blessed Virgin Mary is the same as the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 14:4 - there are consecrated celibates in heaven, as there are with our Catholic priests and religious on earth.
Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4,8,10,12,17; 21:9 - there are chalices (or bowls) in the heavenly liturgy. This is like the chalices used to offer Christ’s sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 15:5 - there is a tent or tabernacle in heaven. Tabernacles are used to store the Eucharist at the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev.19:9 - the consummation of the Lamb at heaven’s marriage supper is the same as the Lamb’s supper in the Holy Mass on earth. Rev. 7:9; 14:6 - the catholicity or universality of heaven as God’s family is the essence of the Catholic faith on earth.

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scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html#eucharist-IIf

 

[holy_wood]

Maybe I should not have posted at 12:00 A.M. in the morning.

 

[Roy5]

Countless Bible scholars have tried to decipher the Book of Revelation. Most of them have come up with different interpretations. Any attempts to make it support Catholicism, Protestantism, the present age, the end-times, etc., is a waste of time. There are simply too many far-out symbols and metaphors that we cannot understand. I view the book as a vision written in a superstitious and more primitive age.
Keep smiling.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Countless Bible scholars have tried to decipher the Book of Revelation. Most of them have come up with different interpretations. Any attempts to make it support Catholicism, Protestantism, the present age, the end-times, etc., is a waste of time. There are simply too many far-out symbols and metaphors that we cannot understand. I view the book as a vision written in a superstitious and more primitive age.

**I agree, the book of Revelations, reveals the eternals, in time, you have, past, present, and future, events happening all at once, not to mention the eternal present.

Although, The Roman Catholic teaching on the book of Revelations, is 2000 years old, it was written for the Catholic Church, the vision of John in the eternal does describe the Catholic Mass in time. That’s why many non catholics and protestants have so many different interpretations of this mystery book of Revelations, The Roman Catholic Church only has one, and even her teaching can take you into unchartered waters.

The book of Revelations reveals The Catholic Liturgy of the Word and of the Eucharist, including, priests, and the body of Christ on earth, in liturgical action with the heavenly angels, saints and martyrs.

So I can see why it is too complicated for the simple layperson like myself.

A note to the poster, THIS IS DEEP MAN, GOOD LUCK trying to explain this to non catholic christians. I think you got your hands full. **

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Roy5;3297091:

Countless Bible scholars have tried to decipher the Book of Revelation. Most of them have come up with different interpretations. Any attempts to make it support Catholicism, Protestantism, the present age, the end-times, etc., is a waste of time. There are simply too many far-out symbols and metaphors that we cannot understand. I view the book as a vision written in a superstitious and more primitive age.

**I agree, the book of Revelations, reveals the eternals, in time, you have, past, present, and future, events happening all at once, not to mention the eternal present.

Although, The Roman Catholic teaching on the book of Revelations, is 2000 years old, it was written for the Catholic Church, the vision of John in the eternal does describe the Catholic Mass in time. That’s why many non catholics and protestants have so many different interpretations of this mystery book of Revelations, The Roman Catholic Church only has one, and even her teaching can take you into unchartered waters.

The book of Revelations reveals The Catholic Liturgy of the Word and of the Eucharist, including, priests, and the body of Christ on earth, in liturgical action with the heavenly angels, saints and martyrs.

So I can see why it is too complicated for the simple layperson like myself.

A note to the poster, THIS IS DEEP MAN, GOOD LUCK trying to explain this to non catholic christians. I think you got your hands full. **

But to someone who knows the mass, it really opens up that part of the book of Revelation. I only realized that a couple years ago and more parallels keep jumping out at me. Do you think it’s significant that John had his vision on the Lord’s day which his readers would immediately identify as when the Christians celebrated their liturgy? And the elders offering the prayers of the people on earth reflects the communion of saints? This isn’t a way of twisting the bible to prove something, it gives us an insight into what John was seeing, the liturgy in heaven. Sort of like God’s will being done on earth as it is in heaven, one reflects the other.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Roy5;3297091:

Countless Bible scholars have tried to decipher the Book of Revelation. Most of them have come up with different interpretations. Any attempts to make it support Catholicism, Protestantism, the present age, the end-times, etc., is a waste of time. There are simply too many far-out symbols and metaphors that we cannot understand. I view the book as a vision written in a superstitious and more primitive age.

**I agree, the book of Revelations, reveals the eternals, in time, you have, past, present, and future, events happening all at once, not to mention the eternal present.

Although, The Roman Catholic teaching on the book of Revelations, is 2000 years old, it was written for the Catholic Church, the vision of John in the eternal does describe the Catholic Mass in time. That’s why many non catholics and protestants have so many different interpretations of this mystery book of Revelations, The Roman Catholic Church only has one, and even her teaching can take you into unchartered waters.

The book of Revelations reveals The Catholic Liturgy of the Word and of the Eucharist, including, priests, and the body of Christ on earth, in liturgical action with the heavenly angels, saints and martyrs.

So I can see why it is too complicated for the simple layperson like myself.

A note to the poster, THIS IS DEEP MAN, GOOD LUCK trying to explain this to non catholic christians. I think you got your hands full. **

But to someone who knows the mass, it really opens up that part of the book of Revelation. I only realized that a couple years ago and more parallels keep jumping out at me. Do you think it’s significant that John had his vision on the Lord’s day which his readers would immediately identify as when the Christians celebrated their liturgy? And the elders offering the prayers of the people on earth reflects the communion of saints? This isn’t a way of twisting the bible to prove something, it gives us an insight into what John was seeing, the liturgy in heaven. Sort of like God’s will being done on earth as it is in heaven, one reflects the other.

 

[deacon_d]

Has any Protestant considered that the Book of Revelation, along with proclaiming the end times events, is also speaking about the Catholic Mass?

In short, ah NO. Why? Because it doesn’t.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Gabriel of 12;3297244:

But to someone who knows the mass, it really opens up that part of the book of Revelation. I only realized that a couple years ago and more parallels keep jumping out at me. Do you think it’s significant that John had his vision on the Lord’s day which his readers would immediately identify as when the Christians celebrated their liturgy? And the elders offering the prayers of the people on earth reflects the communion of saints? This isn’t a way of twisting the bible to prove something, it gives us an insight into what John was seeing, the liturgy in heaven. Sort of like God’s will being done on earth as it is in heaven, one reflects the other.

That is correct , John was on the island of Patmos by himself, on Sunday the Lords day is when the early church was already celebrating the liturgy of the word and the agape meal (Eucharist), God gave John the privieledge of seeing the Mass in heaven celebrated, on earth as it is in heaven. But remember, there is no time in heaven, John describes the Mass eternally in exact terms how we celebrate Mass with the heavenlies, (the divine touching humanity. the incarnation in reality as one people of God. Theres candles, incense, a book, two witnesses, just like in our liturgy of the word at Mass, we hear from the two witnesses, the law and the prophets, (the old testament). I can go on and on, we have not even touched on the historical aspects coming to present and then lived eternally. The Catholics dont fear the book of Revelation, we Love the book, it reveals our communion with God, and we win.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

In short, ah NO. Why? Because it doesn’t.

That is a very interesting statement. Is this your interpretation of Revelations, if it is, I have never heard of it before till today.

Please enlighten us and prove that it doesnt,

Are you familiar with the Catholic Mass?,for example, the consecration of an altar, incense, a Preist, a high Priest, Saints, Martyrs, Angels, Michael the angel present at every Mass, The Lamb as though slain, (crucifix), book, Moses, Elijah, Prayers, the alleluhiah proclaimed, the HIDDEN MANNA (Eucharist) etc, etc,…

Forgive me I am not familiar with your particular form of worship before God our Father. But if does not contain any of the above as recorded in Revealtions, I can understand Why you dont have a clue about liturgies in the book of Revelation.

What is your complete interpretation of the Book of Revelation, so as to dialogue with you.

Peace be with you

 

[Claire_from_DE]

In short, ah NO. Why? Because it doesn’t.

I would ask that you visit a Catholic church and see for yourself if there are not many parallels. I’m sure there are in your area masses that are scheduled at times or days that don’t conflict with your church’s worship services. It isn’t necessary to kneel or make the sign or the cross or anything. Seriously, no one will think it’s unusual, just that you’re a visitor. I would be interested to hear your reaction.

 

[Special_Ed]

That is a very interesting statement. Is this your interpretation of Revelations, if it is, I have never heard of it before till today.

Please enlighten us and prove that it doesnt,

Are you familiar with the Catholic Mass?,for example, the consecration of an altar, incense, a Preist, a high Priest, Saints, Martyrs, Angels, Michael the angel present at every Mass, The Lamb as though slain, (crucifix), book, Moses, Elijah, Prayers, the alleluhiah proclaimed, the HIDDEN MANNA (Eucharist) etc, etc,…

Forgive me I am not familiar with your particular form of worship before God our Father. But if does not contain any of the above as recorded in Revealtions, I can understand Why you dont have a clue about liturgies in the book of Revelation.

What is your complete interpretation of the Book of Revelation, so as to dialogue with you.

Peace be with you

Only a Catholic can give a complete interpretation of the book of Revelation in a paragraph or two.

The mass has absolutely nothing to do with the book of Revelation. Too often I see Catholic’s try to stand for something nonexistant. And just like many Proteatsants, they cannot admit they or their church made a mistake. And it’s a mistake to believe the mass is expressed in the apocalypse.

SE

 

[EHRAM]

Dr. Scott Hahn has noted the parallels between the Mass and the book of Revelation in a number of his books and recorded speeches. As I recall, he noticed the similarities the first time he attended a mass and that was one of the events that brought about his conversion from being a Presbyterian pastor to a Catholic professor, speaker and author.

 

[Special_Ed]

Dr. Scott Hahn has noted the parallels between the Mass and the book of Revelation in a number of his books and recorded speeches. As I recall, he noticed the similarities the first time he attended a mass and that was one of the events that brought about his conversion from being a Presbyterian pastor to a Catholic professor, speaker and author.

There are parallels between my own household and the book of Revelation. It doesn’t mean my house or the mass is expressed in the Apocalypse.
The book isn’t a history book like Catholic’s believe. And it has nothing to do with the mass.

SE

 

[EHRAM]

The book isn’t a history book like Catholic’s believe. And it has nothing to do with the mass.

SE

SE,

Why do you allege that Revelation has nothing to do with the mass?

 

[Special_Ed]

SE,

Why do you allege that Revelation has nothing to do with the mass?

The mass is a man made event. Revelation is a God given Apocalypse.
They are unrelated.
Simple enough?
SE

 

[justasking4]

holy_wood;3286015]
Has any Protestant considered that the Book of Revelation, along with proclaiming the end times events, is also speaking about the Catholic Mass?

Quote:
The Book of Revelation and the Holy Mass

The Book of Revelation shows us glimpses of the heavenly liturgy – Jesus Christ’s once and for all sacrifice eternally present in heaven. This is why the Church has always incorporated the elements that John saw in the heavenly liturgy into her earthly liturgy, for they are one and the same liturgical action of Jesus Christ our High Priest.

Rev. 1:6, 20:6 - heaven’s identification of the priesthood of the faithful is the same as the Church’s identification on earth.
Rev. 1:12, 2:5 - there are lampstands or Menorahs in heaven. These have always been used in the Holy Mass of the Church on earth.
Rev. 2:17 - there is manna in heaven given to the faithful. This is the same as the Eucharistic manna given to the faithful at the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 4:8 - heaven’s liturgical chant “Holy, Holy, Holy” is the same that is used in the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 5:8, 6:9-11, 8:3-4 - heaven’s emphasis on the intercession of the saints is the same as the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4 - there is incense in heaven which has always been part of the liturgy of the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 6:9 - the martyrs who are seen under the heavenly altar is similar to the Church’s tradition of keeping relics of saints under the earthly altars.
Rev. 4:4, 5:14; 11:16, 14:3, 19:4 - there are priests (“presbyteroi”) in heaven. Priests offer sacrifice. Our earthly priests participate with the heavenly priests in offering Jesus’ eternal sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.

Not sure where you get the idea that there are “priests in heaven” out of chapter 4:4. Here is what the New American Bible says on this verse: Twenty-four elders: these represent the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles; cf Rev 21:12-14

Rev. 8:1 - the silent contemplation in heaven is similar to our silent contemplation at the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 8:3, 11:1, 14:18, 16:7 - there is an altar in heaven. But no altar is needed unless a sacrifice is being offered in heaven. This is the same sacrifice that is offered on the altars used in the Holy Masses on earth.
Rev. 12:1-6, 13-17 - heaven’s emphasis on the Blessed Virgin Mary is the same as the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 14:4 - there are consecrated celibates in heaven, as there are with our Catholic priests and religious on earth.
Rev. 15:7, 16:1-4,8,10,12,17; 21:9 - there are chalices (or bowls) in the heavenly liturgy. This is like the chalices used to offer Christ’s sacrifice in the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev. 15:5 - there is a tent or tabernacle in heaven. Tabernacles are used to store the Eucharist at the Holy Mass on earth.
Rev.19:9 - the consummation of the Lamb at heaven’s marriage supper is the same as the Lamb’s supper in the Holy Mass on earth. Rev. 7:9; 14:6 - the catholicity or universality of heaven as God’s family is the essence of the Catholic faith on earth.

scripturecatholic.com/the…#eucharist-IIf

 

[guanophore]

Not sure where you get the idea that there are “priests in heaven” out of chapter 4:4. Here is what the New American Bible says on this verse: Twenty-four elders: these represent the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles; cf Rev 21:12-14

For sure there is at least our Great High Priest who has ascended, you would not deny that, would you?

Don’t you think any of the priests made it to heaven? Do you think Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist when to hell?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Only a Catholic can give a complete interpretation of the book of Revelation in a paragraph or two.

The mass has absolutely nothing to do with the book of Revelation. Too often I see Catholic’s try to stand for something nonexistant. And just like many Proteatsants, they cannot admit they or their church made a mistake. And it’s a mistake to believe the mass is expressed in the apocalypse.

SE

Please Special , enlighten us , you deny the liturgies in heaven revealed in the book of Revelations, What is your interpretation? You write as if one with authority on the subject, so please give us your interpretation. Besides how can you deny what you dont know?

Please what is your take on the book of Revelation? is it fiction, or non fiction?

waiting to be enlightened by you

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Dr. Scott Hahn has noted the parallels between the Mass and the book of Revelation in a number of his books and recorded speeches. As I recall, he noticed the similarities the first time he attended a mass and that was one of the events that brought about his conversion from being a Presbyterian pastor to a Catholic professor, speaker and author.

This revelation of Scott Hahn’s is not new, The Catholic Church and her saints already taught on this subject. I believe Scott Hahn discovered what was already omnipresent in the Catholic Church.
Dont get me wrong, I have heard great things about Scott Hahn, I just purchased one of his books Swear to God, The Promise and Power of the Sacraments. It starts off interesting.

It is interesting to note how it took a biblical scholar proffessor (protestant) to find these mysteries, in the Catholic Mass and convert to Catholicism. That is a great testimony of Mass revealed in the book of Revelations.

Peace

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3301016]
Originally Posted by justasking4
Not sure where you get the idea that there are “priests in heaven” out of chapter 4:4. Here is what the New American Bible says on this verse: Twenty-four elders: these represent the twelve tribes of Israel and the twelve apostles; cf Rev 21:12-14

guanophore
For sure there is at least our Great High Priest who has ascended, you would not deny that, would you?

yes

Don’t you think any of the priests made it to heaven? Do you think Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist when to hell?:shrug

No for a number of reasons. For one the great judgement (Matthew 25:31-46) has not happened yet that will determine the destiny of each person.
Secondly the scriptures do not speak of anyone who has died is now some kind of priest in heaven that i’m aware of.