Protestants: Sinner's Prayer-What must it say and does it assure Salvation?

[crazzeto]

I do see where you are coming from. I feel that most** legitimate churches** that use the sinner’s prayer do follow it up with baptism. There are the exceptions to the rule that you mention in ALL faith’s including our own. I know of Roman Catholics who feel that because they were baptized and confirmed that gives them license to do as they darn well please because in the end they can do one final confession and all will be made right. In their mind they are assured of salvation through the Roman Catholic church by virtue of confirmation and baptism and do nothing but live as they please.

I think the real problem involves the education after the fact, this would avoid the problems we are both speaking of.

May I suggest that education before AND after the sinner’s prayer is actually needed to instruct the new believer that this is not a one time thing.

This is a very wide spread problem with Catechisis in the Catholic Church right now, I think the most sever problems were ending with my generation, I’ve heard also this problem exists in the protistant world but I can’t speak to that. I was confirmed in middle school, and my catechisis ended right there with my parish. This is what led me to (for a time) fall away from the faith and live a life for some time which I still regret terribly to this very day.

I would say this, in the specific case brought up by Anna, the problem is the Catechisis. It’s that the teaching of the faith tradition affirms the mistaken belief that the sinners prayer will in fact aboslutly assure your salivation. Counted here are the Southern Baptists most notably (to me certainly, I live the SB Bible Belt). As Padrej states, many SB’s do see the “problem of sin” in the bible, and try to explain it by saying “well obviously they didn’t mean it when they said their sinners prayer”.

The problem is, they probably did mean it, but they weren’t receiving what they needed (first and formost, the sacraments) to stay true to the faith. To keep picking up that cross, and carrying it. To keep giving God their own personal Fiat’s, more over their faith tradition was telling them that one fiat was more than enough.

With regard to other usages of the profession of faith, or a sinners prayer scrubbed clean of the theology of finality. I’m on the same page, not only is it terrific but it’s also a necessary part of the life of a Christian.

 

[RedBert]

I just find it a little inconsistant that the statement "What you need to know is that salvation is by faith and faith alone in Jesus Christ" is followed by “And faith alone in Jesus Christ is preceded and followed by repentance . . . a turning away from sin…”. Doesn’t the fact that it (faith alone) must be preceded and followed by repentance negate the faith alone aspect? Would faith alone work without repentance? If it would not then we are not saved by faith alone but by faith and repentance.

.

I can expand on it more if needed:
but repentance is not a work:

It is a change of mind (or change of heart) on sin.

It is not an apology or penance

 

[Anna_Scott]

This is a very wide spread problem with Catechisis in the Catholic Church right now, I think the most sever problems were ending with my generation, I’ve heard also this problem exists in the protistant world but I can’t speak to that. I was confirmed in middle school, and my catechisis ended right there with my parish. This is what led me to (for a time) fall away from the faith and live a life for some time which I still regret terribly to this very day.

Crazzeto,

Agreed. The lack of education is also a serious problem in many Churches in the Protestant sector.

I would say this, in the specific case brought up by Anna, the problem is the Catechisis. It’s that the teaching of the faith tradition affirms the mistaken belief that the sinners prayer will in fact aboslutly assure your salivation. Counted here are the Southern Baptists most notably (to me certainly, I live the SB Bible Belt). As Padrej states, many SB’s do see the “problem of sin” in the bible, and try to explain it by saying “well obviously they didn’t mean it when they said their sinners prayer”.

Agreed. The Sinner’s Prayer is often attached to the mistaken belief of assurance. It goes back to the idea that there is a “moment of salvation,” rather than the belief that salvation is a path with many aspects. As you can see from my recent posts on this tread, it is still difficult for me to let go of the idea of a specific moment of salvation. Indoctrination can be difficult to shake.

Since the SB’s believe in an instant and ensured salvation, upon praying the Sinner’s Prayer, the continued sinful life of “Christians” becomes theologically problematic.

The problem is, they probably did mean it, but they weren’t receiving what they needed (first and formost, the sacraments) to stay true to the faith. To keep picking up that cross, and carrying it. To keep giving God their own personal Fiat’s, more over their faith tradition was telling them that one fiat was more than enough.

Again, we are back to the serious problem of denying the existance of Sacraments. While the SB’s see Baptism as a “prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord’s Supper,” they do not accept the idea that graces are imparted during Baptism or The Lord’s Supper. The SB’s will not accept Baptism performed in a “Sacramental” Church, or in a Church that denies the “security of the believer.”

Position Paper Concerning the IMB Guideline on Baptism (sbc.net)
**a. Baptism is a church ordinance. **
“Baptism must take place in a church that practices believer’s baptism by immersion alone, does not view baptism as sacramental or regenerative, and a church that embraces the doctrine of the security of the believer.”

For Southern Baptists, salvation rides soley on the Sinner’s Prayer, and what they believe takes place during, and as a result of, this prayer.

(Notice that John Chapter 6 is not cited in the Scriptures used to justify the SB position on Baptism and The Lord’s Supper.)

Southern Baptist Convention website: sbc.net/knowjesus/theplan.asp
VII. Baptism and the Lord’s SupperChristian baptism is the immersion of a believer in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It is an act of obedience symbolizing the believer’s faith in a crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, the believer’s death to sin, the burial of the old life, and the resurrection to walk in newness of life in Christ Jesus. It is a testimony to his faith in the final resurrection of the dead. Being a church ordinance, it is prerequisite to the privileges of church membership and to the Lord’s Supper.

The Lord’s Supper is a symbolic act of obedience whereby members of the church, through partaking of the bread and the fruit of the vine, memorialize the death of the Redeemer and anticipate His second coming.

Matthew 3:13-17; 26:26-30; 28:19-20; Mark 1:9-11; 14:22-26; Luke 3:21-22; 22:19-20; John 3:23; Acts 2:41-42; 8:35-39; 16:30-33; 20:7; Romans 6:3-5; 1 Corinthians 10:16,21; 11:23-29; Colossians 2:12.

With regard to other usages of the profession of faith, or a sinners prayer scrubbed clean of the theology of finality. I’m on the same page, not only is it terrific but it’s also a necessary part of the life of a Christian.

I agree. As you pointed out in a number of posts, the problems lies in the Theology attached to the Sinner’s Prayer, and not in the prayer.

Anna

 

[brb3]

Agreed. The Sinner’s Prayer is often attached to the mistaken belief of assurance. It goes back to the idea that there is a “moment of salvation,” rather than the belief that salvation is a path with many aspects. As you can see from my recent posts on this tread, it is still difficult for me to let go of the idea of a specific moment of salvation. Indoctrination can be difficult to shake.

Since the SB’s believe in an instant and ensured salvation, upon praying the Sinner’s Prayer, the continued sinful life of “Christians” becomes theologically problematic.

Also, for SB’s … the Altar Call, making [not saying] a public profession of faith, is bedrock. Walking the aisle to publicly show one’s acceptance of the Pastor’s call for those who have ‘privately’ prayed their sinner’s prayer. Coming forward before the church body … is one’s acknowledgment of ‘giving one’s heart/soul to Christ’. Then a few weeks later, one is baptized by submersion, with Trinitarian scriptural language proclaimed.

One is expected to live a changed life thereafter, but w/o the continued graces of Eucharist it is very difficult to grow in grace. There are lots of Prodigal sons/daughters. S.B’s are genuine Christians, but they are very handicapped in their faith by being apart from the Universal Church and what it offers those of faith. For many, they have a poorly developed idea of the 3rd Person of the Trinity. They understand they are accepting Christ’s atonement on Cross — for ALL their sins. But, many don’t seem very clear on role of H.S. in their lives. For S.B.'s … it all about Christ, and very little explanation on the 3rd Person. I’m sure this is due to their confusion with regards to the Eucharist, and due to fact it is taught as only symbolic, and not the Bedrock Sacrament given to the Church by Christ.

 

[Anna_Scott]

SteveVH,

I’m sorry; but somehow, I missed this post.

. . . .You would hope so. Unfortunately it really depends upon the knowledge of those in charge of RCIA. The priests usually delegate those duties and aren’t always on top of what is being taught. In very small parishes you are limited as to choices of teachers. In my own parish I basically came unglued after sponsoring several people. They were only teaching on the surface and then teaching “their” view of Catholicism. They weren’t even using the Catechism. My priest instructed me to go ahead teach my candidates outside of and in addition to the official RCIA class. We got that changed and have one of our deacons running the show now. Great improvement. I would just make sure to verify things on your own and ask lots of probing questions. Make sure you are being taught what the “Church” teaches and not someone’s slanted view.

What do you mean by “sponsoring” people? Do you mean you sponsored them to teach RCIA?

Education is so very important. I am studying on my own and taking every class I can, in the Episcopal Church. The Rector teaches several classes each week. I try to attend all of those. The next Catechism Class starts this summer. I really want to take my time and make sure I am doing the right thing.

I am considering taking an RCIA class, as well. I know you will be glad to hear that, my kind friend. But—that doesn’t necessarily mean I am going to convert to Catholicism.

Our RCIA classes last for two years, although this can very from diocese to diocese. I have heard of one year or 18 months in some.

Catechesis is one of the many things I admire about the Catholic Church.

. You know, we claim that all churches have some truth in them to varying degrees. We claim to have the “fullness” of truth. I think the largest gap in understanding concerns the sacraments.

I agree. I have only recently come to understand the Sacraments of Baptism and the Eucharist.

May God’s peace and blessings be upon you,
Anna

 

[crazzeto]

SteveVH,

I’m sorry; but somehow, I missed this post.

What do you mean by “sponsoring” people? Do you mean you sponsored them to teach RCIA?

Quite the opposite, I’m a sponsor this year (I’ve gone to every class actually). Rather than sponsoring someone to teach, you’re sponsoring a Candidate or Catechumin who wants to come into the Church. The job is basically to be a companion, and to offer as much as you can in way of your time, listening, and if you feel some confidence good resources to give them a little extra help out side of what is being taught.

Fortunetly my churches program is far better than what Steve describes, I haven’t had to do a whole lot though I have offered my Candidate some good resources on the mass and other subjects.

Education is so very important. I am studying on my own and taking every class I can, in the Episcopal Church. The Rector teaches several classes each week. I try to attend all of those. The next Catechism Class starts this summer. I really want to take my time and make sure I am doing the right thing.

I am considering taking an RCIA class, as well. I know you will be glad to hear that, my kind friend. But—that doesn’t necessarily mean I am going to convert to Catholicism.

There is no pressure to do so, the Church really views this not as just education for those coming into the Church, rather also an oppertunity just to educate those who want to learn some about the Church. I very highly recommend taking an RCIA course, and maybe even try attending a Mass or two!

Catechesis is one of the many things I admire about the Catholic Church.

I agree. I have only recently come to understand the Sacraments of Baptism and the Eucharist.

May God’s peace and blessings be upon you,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

BrB3,

I am quoting one of your previous posts again, because I think perseverance is so important.

It says that once justified by Christ, and part of God’s Adoption, a New Creation as Paul teaches in Corinthians ] … Christ will not abandon those whom the Father has given him. However, it does stipulate that New Creation continue to Abide in Christ til their last day [Perseverance].

W/O perseverance clause [taught by scripture] … it makes no sense. Man’s Free Will is always at play. Nevertheless, God is All Knowing, and knows who will persevere.

Also, for SB’s … the Altar Call, making [not saying] a public profession of faith, is bedrock. Walking the aisle to publicly show one’s acceptance of the Pastor’s call for those who have ‘privately’ prayed their sinner’s prayer. Coming forward before the church body … is one’s acknowledgment of ‘giving one’s heart/soul to Christ’. Then a few weeks later, one is baptized by submersion, with Trinitarian scriptural language proclaimed.

Being brought up in Baptist Churches, I can say this is quite accurate. I still believe in a public profession of faith. I believe the Sinner’s Prayer can be a starting point in the path of salvation–as has been discussed throughout this thread.

As Crazzeto has pointed out, the problem is not the Sinner’s Prayer; but the Theology often attached to this prayer, such as the OSAS/doctrine of “security of the believer.”

One is expected to live a changed life thereafter, but w/o the continued graces of Eucharist it is very difficult to grow in grace. There are lots of Prodigal sons/daughters. S.B’s are genuine Christians, but they are very handicapped in their faith by being apart from the Universal Church and what it offers those of faith. For many, they have a poorly developed idea of the 3rd Person of the Trinity. They understand they are accepting Christ’s atonement on Cross — for ALL their sins. But, many don’t seem very clear on role of H.S. in their lives. For S.B.'s … it all about Christ, and very little explanation on the 3rd Person. I’m sure this is due to their confusion with regards to the Eucharist, and due to fact it is taught as only symbolic, and not the Bedrock Sacrament given to the Church by Christ.

I agree that many Southern Baptists are genuine Christians. Many are very devoted to Christ and continue to study the Bible; and do daily take up the cross to follow Christ.

However, the idea of perseverance takes a backseat to the belief in the doctrine of the “security of the believer.”

I did find much emphasis on the Holy Spirit in the Baptist Church. So, I’m not sure I agree that there is a lack of education regarding the Holy Spirit. Though, many Evangelical/Charismatic Protestant Churches place much greater emphasis on the Holy Spirit, claiming ecstatic religious experiences, leading to speaking in tongues, etc.

Appreciate your comments,
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

Quite the opposite, I’m a sponsor this year (I’ve gone to every class actually). Rather than sponsoring someone to teach, you’re sponsoring a Candidate or Catechumin who wants to come into the Church. The job is basically to be a companion, and to offer as much as you can in way of your time, listening, and if you feel some confidence good resources to give them a little extra help out side of what is being taught.

Fortunetly my churches program is far better than what Steve describes, I haven’t had to do a whole lot though I have offered my Candidate some good resources on the mass and other subjects.

Crazzeto,

Thanks for jumping in here. I didn’t quite understand. Sounds like Sponsorship is a great program.

There is no pressure to do so, the Church really views this not as just education for those coming into the Church, rather also an oppertunity just to educate those who want to learn some about the Church. I very highly recommend taking an RCIA course, and maybe even try attending a Mass or two!

I do understand this. I know many of my Catholic friends, including you, really want to see me find my way to the Catholic Church. I appreciate this and love you all for it. God only knows where I will land.

I was just talking to one of my friends this week, about how I would never have been ready for the Episcopal Church; if I had not been talking with Catholics on these forums over the last year. I have probably learned the most from my Catholic friends, here. These forums really do matter.

God bless you,
Anna

 

[SteveVH]

SteveVH,

I’m sorry; but somehow, I missed this post.

What do you mean by “sponsoring” people? Do you mean you sponsored them to teach RCIA?

Crazzeto explained this very well. In my case I was basically forced to “teach” them due to the inadequacy of the RCIA teachers. Crazzeto is fortunate to have such great resources. But the role of the sponsor is to walk the road with the candidate you are sponsoring, giving them encouragement and helping when they may not understand something.

I would highly recommend an RCIA class. I would be very up front with the people teaching the classes as to where you are with the Episcopal Church. You can certainly enter into the “inquiry stage”. There will be a time when you would have to make a decision as to whether or not you want to continue. Yes Anna, I would be thrilled if you decided to become Catholic but this is your journey. Actually I think you will be there someday just based upon your thirst for knowledge and truth, but I could certainly be wrong. I would hope you would at least check it out, make some comparisons and then make your decision. Remember, many Episcopalians are coming over to the Catholic Church. It would be worth finding out why they are doing that.

Catechesis is one of the many things I admire about the Catholic Church.

There are so many resources available. We still struggle with catechizing the people in the Catholic Church just due to human complacency. Many feel that if they keep their Sunday obligations to attend Mass and receive the sacraments that they have no need of further knowledge. They don’t know what they are missing.

I agree. I have only recently come to understand the Sacraments of Baptism and the Eucharist.

May God’s peace and blessings be upon you,
Anna

And upon you too Anna.

[/QUOTE]

 

[Anna_Scott]

Crazzeto explained this very well. In my case I was basically forced to “teach” them due to the inadequacy of the RCIA teachers. Crazzeto is fortunate to have such great resources. But the role of the sponsor is to walk the road with the candidate you are sponsoring, giving them encouragement and helping when they may not understand something.

Steve,

Finally made it back to the library today to use the Internet. Spoke with my son. He will work on my computer when he comes home after graduation next month.

Thanks for your comments about sponsorship. From what you and Crazzeto said, sounds like a very important program. The Christian walk is difficult in the current state of our world—especially for new Christians, braking free from the old life.

I would highly recommend an RCIA class. I would be very up front with the people teaching the classes as to where you are with the Episcopal Church. You can certainly enter into the “inquiry stage”. There will be a time when you would have to make a decision as to whether or not you want to continue. Yes Anna, I would be thrilled if you decided to become Catholic but this is your journey. Actually I think you will be there someday just based upon your thirst for knowledge and truth, but I could certainly be wrong. I would hope you would at least check it out, make some comparisons and then make your decision. Remember, many Episcopalians are coming over to the Catholic Church. It would be worth finding out why they are doing that.

Good advice. I will, of course, be up front with the RCIA teachers. I need to find a Catholic Church. I may wait until I go through the Catechism at the Episcopal Church. They will have another Catechism class this Summer. As I said before, I am taking all the classes offered now. The Rector teaches several. He has so much knowledge of Church history. I haven’t found this level of education and teaching in Protestant Churches. If there is a class, I am there with my notebook and Bible.

I do realize many Episcopalians/Anglicans are crossing over to the Catholic Church. I’ll just keep praying and studying.

There are so many resources available. We still struggle with catechizing the people in the Catholic Church just due to human complacency. Many feel that if they keep their Sunday obligations to attend Mass and receive the sacraments that they have no need of further knowledge. They don’t know what they are missing.

I think complacency can be found to some extent in almost every Church. Even in the Episcopal Church, I run into the same group of people, studying and attending classes. Others seem quite content to occupy a pew on Sunday. But then, there was a time, when I did the same. Sometimes the Lord has to wake us up. Otherwise, we can wonder aimlessly through years of our lives. I can relate to the Israelite’s wondering in the wilderness for 40 years–complaining and grumbling with each obstacle–quickly forgetting the last miracle God performed on their behalf. I spent many years in that “wilderness,” myself. It is a wondering fueled by self indulgence. I pray, again and again, that God will draw my thoughts away from self and onto Him. It can be difficult, since we live in a world that cries out “me, me, me!”

I know I am taking my own Thread off topic, here. But I must say that Holy Week in the Episcopal Church was really quite extraordinary. I attended every service my health would allow. Today, I am still in quiet reflection.

God bless you, Steve,
Anna

 

[Padrej]

I recently ran by a piece on John Wesley and security in salvation. Wesley spoke about our spirit witnesses how God’s love has changed us. He believed that you could tell in your heart that you were really devoted to God by your love for neighbor and if you had joy and peace and humility. If you have those things then you would be assured by your conscience that you are now the kind of person God wants you to be and that salvation is working in you.

It rather ties into the passage of Luke 7: 36-50 where the “sinful woman” pours the fragrant oil over Jesus’ feet and wipes them with her hair. Jesus criticizes Simon the pharisee after telling him the parable of how much one is forgiven is proportionate to how much one loves. The he goes on to further criticize him openly that he never washed his feet, gave him a holy kiss, or anointed Him; all of these things were required of a good Jew if he was to be considered a “good host.” Jesus was showing that Simon loved little because he had no real gifts or love towards others where the sinful woman did. Then He turns to the woman and says “your faith has saved you” which confirms what I wrote above that it is about your actions that prove that you have the salvation.

 

[Anna_Scott]

I recently ran by a piece on John Wesley and security in salvation. Wesley spoke about our spirit witnesses how God’s love has changed us. He believed that you could tell in your heart that you were really devoted to God by your love for neighbor and if you had joy and peace and humility. If you have those things then you would be assured by your conscience that you are now the kind of person God wants you to be and that salvation is working in you.

It rather ties into the passage of Luke 7: 36-50 where the “sinful woman” pours the fragrant oil over Jesus’ feet and wipes them with her hair. Jesus criticizes Simon the pharisee after telling him the parable of how much one is forgiven is proportionate to how much one loves. The he goes on to further criticize him openly that he never washed his feet, gave him a holy kiss, or anointed Him; all of these things were required of a good Jew if he was to be considered a “good host.” Jesus was showing that Simon loved little because he had no real gifts or love towards others where the sinful woman did. Then He turns to the woman and says “your faith has saved you” which confirms what I wrote above that it is about your actions that prove that you have the salvation.

Padrej,

Appreciate your comments on John Wesley. I agree that we are able to realize our heart is changing, and even that salvation is working in us. There have been times when I forgave serious offenses, or loved those who were cruel to me. I realize I could not forgive or love without Christ at work in my heart. There is nothing good in me that does not come from our Lord.

Though I agree that our conscience may tell us salvation is at work in us; I do not believe our conscience can provide assurance of salvation. The well known passage in Matthew shows us that we may believe we are saved, and Jesus may still say, “I never knew you; depart from me.”

Matthew 7:22-23 (English Standard Version)
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Indeed, love and all the fruits of the Spirit reveal salvation at work in our hearts. The question remains: do these fruits, recognized within ourselves, provide assurance of salvation? Before the day of judgement, can any of us really claim the assurance of salvation?

Very interesting post, Padrej.
Anna

 

[crazzeto]

Excellent post Anna, very insightful! The only other thing I could add to what you said are the very words of St. Paul him self, 1 Corintians 4

3 But to me it is a very small thing to be judged by you, or by man’s day; but neither do I judge my own self.

St Paul him self wasn’t so confident as many Christians today to say “I’m saved”, so what gives us absolute assurance?

 

[Anna_Scott]

Excellent post Anna, very insightful! The only other thing I could add to what you said are the very words of St. Paul him self, 1 Corintians 4

St Paul him self wasn’t so confident as many Christians today to say “I’m saved”, so what gives us absolute assurance?

Crazzeto,

Thanks for the passage from St. Paul. I’d forgotten about this. I have to run. My library computer time is expiring any second. More tomorrow.

Anna

 

[Padrej]

Padrej,

Appreciate your comments on John Wesley. I agree that we are able to realize our heart is changing, and even that salvation is working in us. There have been times when I forgave serious offenses, or loved those who were cruel to me. I realize I could not forgive or love without Christ at work in my heart. There is nothing good in me that does not come from our Lord.

Though I agree that our conscience may tell us salvation is at work in us; I do not believe our conscience can provide assurance of salvation. The well known passage in Matthew shows us that we may believe we are saved, and Jesus may still say, “I never knew you; depart from me.”

Matthew 7:22-23 (English Standard Version)
22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Indeed, love and all the fruits of the Spirit reveal salvation at work in our hearts. The question remains: do these fruits, recognized within ourselves, provide assurance of salvation? Before the day of judgement, can any of us really claim the assurance of salvation?

Very interesting post, Padrej.
Anna

Anna
I believe that if you look at the passage in question I think the key is in the last part “workers of lawlessness.” the next verse picks up where this leaves off 24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:"
So the key is that it again comes in the works. This parallels Matthew 25: 31-46 the parable of the sheep and goats. The sheep were the blessed ones and entered into the kingdom because out of love the did the works to “the least of these.”

As to claiming assurance I believe that we all have the HOPE of resurrection. BUT how do you reconcile this with all who call on the name of Jesus SHALL BE saved? NOT may be saved.

 

[crazzeto]

Anna
I believe that if you look at the passage in question I think the key is in the last part “workers of lawlessness.” the next verse picks up where this leaves off 24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:"
So the key is that it again comes in the works. This parallels Matthew 25: 31-46 the parable of the sheep and goats. The sheep were the blessed ones and entered into the kingdom because out of love the did the works to “the least of these.”

As to claiming assurance I believe that we all have the HOPE of resurrection. BUT how do you reconcile this with all who call on the name of Jesus SHALL BE saved? NOT may be saved.

Both and, not either or…

 

[Anna_Scott]

Anna
I believe that if you look at the passage in question I think the key is in the last part “workers of lawlessness.” the next verse picks up where this leaves off 24 “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:"
So the key is that it again comes in the works. This parallels Matthew 25: 31-46 the parable of the sheep and goats. The sheep were the blessed ones and entered into the kingdom because out of love the did the works to “the least of these.”

As to claiming assurance I believe that we all have the HOPE of resurrection. BUT how do you reconcile this with all who call on the name of Jesus SHALL BE saved? NOT may be saved.

Padrej,

Good question. Not sure how to completely reconcile the two, other than to say that we must consider the N.T. (& O.T.) as a whole to get a clear picture of the requirements of salvation.

What are your thoughts on “all who call on the name of Jesus SHALL BE saved”?
Anna

 

[Anna_Scott]

Excellent post Anna, very insightful! The only other thing I could add to what you said are the very words of St. Paul him self, 1 Corintians 4

3 But to me it is a very small thing to be judged by you, or by man’s day; but neither do I judge my own self.

Crazzeto,

I wanted to come back and take another look at this passage you cited from St. Paul. This really is a very clear message that we are not to judge ourselves, or pronounce judgement before the Lord comes.

I need to remember this passage for the next time someone hits the forums running—telling everyone they are going to Hell.

**1 Corinthians 4 (ESV): **1 This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. 2 Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. 3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

I think we can definitely say that the Sinner’s Prayer does not provide assurance of salvation.

Many interesting posts on this Thread–and very helpful to me.

Thanks,
Anna

 

[Padrej]

Padrej,

Good question. Not sure how to completely reconcile the two, other than to say that we must consider the N.T. (& O.T.) as a whole to get a clear picture of the requirements of salvation.

What are your thoughts on “all who call on the name of Jesus SHALL BE saved”?
Anna

You are correct that the verses must be taken in context of the whole. By doing so as crazetto points out, it is a both situation.

When you call on the Lord it is the first step in Salvation. When you do the works you are growing in your faith. 1 Corinthians 3 speaks well to this subject where St. Paul is upset that he finds some have not grown in their faith and calls them “babes” in Christ and “carnal.” Colossians 3: 1-17 also speaks of “putting off” the old and “putting on” the new much like you would when you change clothing. Paul also exhorts to **“let the” **several times in this same passage so this passage also speaks to the Christian’s responsibility to change after the confession/profession/sinner’s prayer. Look if you will at that passage in question and highlight how many times those words that I have in quotes appear; I usually tell my students and my Bible study groups that if something is repeated at least twice to really pay attention to what surrounds it as that is very important. Sadly we loose this in English translations in the words of Jesus when he says “verily I say to you” or “assuredly I say” because in the original Greek it reads “Amen, Amen” so it alerts the reader that whatever follows is important.

 

[Dokimas]

Protestants: Sinner’s Prayer-What must it say and does it assure Salvation?

Anna

Prayer is talking with God. We are all sinners so when we pray, we must be saying a sinners prayer. God seeks our hearts response to Him. He knows who are His. That’s what saves us, not words our minds speak.​

Oh yes, IMO.