Protestants spend more time in Purgatory than Catholics

[distracted]

God – you’re so clueless I wouldn’t know where to begin?

whatever you do (say) to the least of My brethren, you do/say unto Me… (St. Matthew 25:31-46)…

 

[distracted]

Don’t feel bad, Sola, I’m Catholic and I’m lost with that “let’s scare the crud out of them Protestants!” mentality. That’s like going fishing late in the day firing off a shotgun lol…fishers of men with weed-wackers!

actually… i know this is going to be a shock and a disappointment… but the main reason i posted the Thread was just to talk about what i had heard/read…

like i said before, many post-ers here… just read far too much (& many times far too little) into waht is said…

Presumption…

boy, do i hate presumption.

 

[distracted]

well – isn’t what VRAC said at least somewhat true? Why not try & explain why these events don’t represent an evolution of doctrine rather than simply toss out an ad hom remark and fallacious generalizations?

can’t speak for the post-er you are addressing, but I, for one, am sick of all the intellectualizing and nit-picking concerning Christianity… I think our time could be better spent trying to be like Christ, who healed people, preached to people, warned them of Hell… told them the truth, even when the truth didn’t suit them… I frankly think it is a waste of time for Protestants/Cahtolics to talk about certain complex doctrines thye don’t agree on… (not all, just some)… when they don’t even talk about the basics… or reach any kind of agreement on the basics…

Also, some people just like to argue, argue, argue… (it seems)… They don’t even answer post-ers who have a legit point… because they don’t have an answer… Jesus went through the same thing… I believe there are protestants on this forum who just like to antagonize Catholics… they seem to have no good motive in being here, in presenting their tired old, overly-repeated… anti-Catholic, so-called intelligent opposing positions… Very tiresome…

So there is nothing overly simplistic let alone shallow about my belief system --.

No, if you are not Cathlic… there is not so much an over-simplification… but that there is something missing:

… Some-one

The Real Presence of Christ…

You protestants are missing out BIG TIME!!!

And that is basic!!!

 

[distracted]

That’s interesting. I read in First Things about a poll which showed that while well-versed evangelicals tend to become Catholic, it is the poorly-learned Catholics which become Protestant.

I can attest to this. I was a Protestant, and am currently Anglican, but a study of the Bible and Church history and Christianity lead me to realize that Protestantism is a bunch of man-made denominations, and that I need to be Catholic.

So I’m converting to the Catholic Church.

:extrahappy: :extrahappy:

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

Sorry sabbath. I get a little impatient. So have you had a chance to read the reference that was given? What do you think now?

As the saying goes, “Been there, done that.”

Yes this is obvious but the fact that Christians will be persecuted does not mean that temporal punishment or a “cleansing process” will not be required before entrance into heaven. Also, how do you respond to my question as to how you know that the persecution we might suffer has no purgatorial value? Revelations tells us that nothing unclean will enter heaven. How do you reconcile this verse with your belief that purgatory does not exist? OT believers prayed for the souls of their dead, as did the early Christians. Where were these souls, when they were in need of prayer, after bodily death?

Simply, we are told that Christ cleanses us from all unrighteousness. That being said, we must remember, if we willfully sin then we have no recourse to his saving blood. None, nyet, noda. It is only when we come to him with a contrite spirit that we are purged of these sins. Can someone who has committed willful sin be forgive? Was the prodigal son forgiven? Again, contrition plays big in this forgiveness. We cannot go about willfully sinning and constantly asking for forgiveness, that is being presumptuous of God’s Grace and those who do that will be those who will be saying at the last day, “Lord, Lord” to which he will reply, “Depart from me, I know you not.”

The problem with this statement is the fact that Catholics do not merely rely on the implications presented in Scripture. We look to the Tradition which produced the written word and we look to the church, the teacher Christ left us, so that we can have clarification and an unbiased understanding of the truth. As long as you reject the teacher Christ provided you, you have only implication. Not a very strong foundation on which to base the salvation of your eternal soul.

Here is see a couple of errors. Firstly, I have run into numerous references from RCs who continuously point to implied doctrines and then of course supporting them with Tradition, basically if implication supports Tradition and if Tradition supports implication than it must be correct. It’s like trying to make a bridge without a foundation.

Secondly, if you will search through other threads you will find that some RCs claim that the Bible did not exist until after the RCC put it together and then other RCs say the the Bible existed during Christ’s time. Which is it? I know through historical evidence that, although there was no compilation of documents, the writtings in question did exist and they were copied and past around from church to church so to say that Tradition produced the Bible is inaccurate.

Again, I apologize for the harshness of my tone earlier.

Hey, if we were all perfect we wouldn’t be here, right?

 

[Mannyfit75]

As the saying goes, “Been there, done that.”

Secondly, if you will search through other threads you will find that some RCs claim that the Bible did not exist until after the RCC put it together and then other RCs say the the Bible existed during Christ’s time. Which is it? I know through historical evidence that, although there was no compilation of documents, the writtings in question did exist and they were copied and past around from church to church so to say that Tradition produced the Bible is inaccurate.

There needs to be some clarification on the formation of the Bible here.

The Bible in it full complete text (including the NT) was not made available during the time of the Apostles. The Bible was the Hebrew Scripture, and the Deutrocanonical was made available at the time. The NT was not added into the Canon of Scripture until the Fourth Century in the Council of Rome (382 AD), Council of Hippo (392 AD), and Council of Carthage (396 AD). The list on those local Synods are similiar to the ones in the Council of Florence 1430 AD and was affirm again in the Council of Trent in 1530-1556 AD.

The Scripture of the OT was present at the time of Jesus Christ. The complete Sacred Scripture was canonized in the Fourth Century. So the Church existed before the Bible before the Bible was complete.

In those days, the Scripture was written in scrolls or papyrus. Many of the scrolls of both OT and NT are copies made by the Monastic Monks. The oldes manuscript we have is the Codex Sinaiticus, and Codex Vaticanus.

Codex Sinaiticus (London, Brit. Libr., Add. 43725; Gregory-Aland nº א (Aleph) or 01, Soden δ 2) is a 4th century uncial manuscript of the Greek Bible, written between 330–350. While it originally contained the whole of both Testaments, only portions of the Greek Old Testament or Septuagint survive, along with a complete New Testament, the Epistle of Barnabas, and portions of The Shepherd of Hermas (suggesting that the latter two may have been considered part of Biblical canon by the editors of the codex[1]). Along with Codex Vaticanus, Codex Sinaiticus is one of the most valuable manuscripts for textual criticism of the Greek New Testament, as well as the Septuagint. It is the only uncial manuscript with the complete text of the New Testament, and the only manuscript of the New Testament written in four columns per page.

Vaticanus Codex originally contained a complete copy of the Septuagint (“LXX”) except for 1-4 Maccabees and the Prayer of Manasseh. Genesis 1:1 - 46:28a (31 leaves) and Psalm 105:27 — 137:6b (10 leaves) are lost and have been filled by a recent hand. 2 Kings 2:5-7, 10-13 are also lost due to a tear in one of the pages. The order of the Old Testament books is as follows: Genesis to 2 Chronicles as normal, 1 Esdras, 2 Esdras (Ezra-Nehemiah), the Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Job, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Esther, Judith, Tobit, the minor prophets from Hosea to Malachi, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Baruch, Lamentations and the Epistle of Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel.

The extant New Testament of Vaticanus contains the Gospels, Acts, the General Epistles, the Pauline Epistles and the Epistle to the Hebrews (up to Heb 9:14, καθαριει); thus it lacks 1 and 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon and Revelation. These missing pages were replaced by a 15th century minuscule supplement (no. 1957).

 

[tmac1956]

Incorrect!!! There were several versions of the septuagint and the earliest manuscripts did not include the DCs. Jerome even commented that they were good reading but not useful for doctrine as did the early Popes.

Why are we even discussing this? I thought the dead sea scrolls settled the matter…I mean since they also contain the DCs.
Thanks!

 

[Reformed]

i wish i could remember where i heard that, but it makes sense because Protestants, generally speaking (especially those who live by OSAS) make a lot of “excuses” for their sins and bad behavior… They think they don’t have to “pay” for then because Jesus paid the price… What they don’t realize is that sin causes an ugly stain on the soul that will keep the soul from entrance into Heaven - until it is wiped away… (by the application of Christ’s Blood atonement)… on this earth and/or in Purgatory…

Revelation says that “no unclean thing will enter Heaven” (21:27)…

(1 Cor 3:13, St. Matthew 18:23, St. Matthew 12:32, etc…)

They don’t seem to believe that what Christ did on Calvary actually has to be APPLIED…

It is like being given a nutritious, delicious meal… and not making a move to eat it because you think… “I don’t need to… i will remain healthy indefinitely anyway…”

Just like the game of Monopoly, all regenerate Protetstant Christians have the “pass” card in their possession. They don’t have to go to the jail of purgatory because Christ paid for the sins Catholics have to purge in purgatory.

 

[distracted]

Just like the game of Monopoly, all regenerate Protetstant Christians have the “pass” card in their possession. They don’t have to go to the jail of purgatory because Christ paid for the sins Catholics have to purge in purgatory.

you could be in for a very rude awakening…

but oh well… that’s your choice…