Protestants spread untruths about catholic faith!

[SoCalTed]

Sitting in Sunday School I am often called upon (or looked at) when discussing Non-Baptist vs Baptist POVs.

Here’s the deal…most (if not none) of the people at my church (Chinese & Southern Baptist) have never attended a Catholic mass, school or CCD. However, many have grown up in a non-Christian family (not something many Catholics experience). They came to Christ as a choice, some having to turn their backs on their governments (being branded outlaws, suffering persecution), and many being disowned by their families. There are also many generational Baptist families, too. They to God because he is stronger than drugs, stronger than abusive relationships… and surely more powerful than any government.

The majority of my catholic family, friends (including priests) have never been to any church other than a catholic church. Some have never even been to another Catholic church!! (That’s just crazy, if you ask me) They grew up in the nestled protection of the parish, with a family that was almost always all Catholic (even extended family). The only ridicule or danger in being Catholic was walking home past the public school in your uniform. Try having military police bash in your door and take everyone away to separate prisons for reading a subversive manual like the Bible.

All sides will think their view/disposition is the best. Most will not take the time to understand the other side’s POV or doctrine. So, here is my 27 years worth of Catholicism and 12 years of Baptist life.

The Baptists believe that God (and therefore the Trinity) is all powerful. God is it, what other high power do you need if the Boss of all boss’ can’t get it done. So the confusion with them is why (I almost said “we” ) Catholics pray to saints. And don’t say we (ok, there I go again)… don’t say Catholics don’t pray to saints. My mom, grandma and 37 other cousins all pray to patron saint (enter name here _______ ) to find stuff they lost, keep them safe on travels, healing of various ailments. Again, these may be generational issues, and perhaps the older generations hold more to this? I don’t know, I’ve been out of the Catholic church for 10 years. But I remember nuns in schools telling me to write “JMJ” on the top any test or quiz to ensure that Jesus, Mary & Joseph all helped me get a good grade. A baptist would just silently pray, “Help me Father”. Baptists are just confused why Catholics seem to go to the “B” team to get stuff done. Do they think God is too busy? For those who have endured loss and hardship in life to become a believer, they can’t see why anyone would risk anything but whole-hearted worship and adoration of their jealous God?

So that’s why they get confused or say what they say (and not one Baptist will say the same thing about Catholicism - unless they went to the same seminary ) We have to agree to disagree, and hope that when we get to Heaven that we can ALL laugh about it.

(Please note: note to Catholics - not all baptists are Bible thumpin’, fire & brimstone, damnation spouting bigots. Note to Baptists - not all Catholics attend Bingo night.)

 

[KathleenGee]

I got this booklet in my mailbox addressed to resident at our address.

It is entitled, ‘National Sunday Law’, …a shocking glimpse behind the scenes…and then … Forces unite amid stupendous crisis…

It comes from New Life Publications in Okeene, OK. It is its 102nd printing, 35 million printed.

It goes from ‘The Beast’…to the Seat of Rome…to a woman in the Bible prophecy representing a church…a harlot (whore) is a corrupt church. Vicar of the Son of God…

I am getting some inferences and a video of this same theme on the ‘Sabbath’ thread.
I wonder why CAF is allowing people to come into our website to promote material similar to what I have…I want to send it to the Archdiocese…these are the same people that had a huge billboard put up on the freeway with John Paul II’s picture on it and calling him the antichrist.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

Dear friends

it really upsets me when protestants spread untruths and lies about the catholic faith. In most cases, I’m convinced, it is so because they are unaware what catholics really believe (maybe if they studied it before making claims they would have to acknowledge that what they’re saying doesn’t make sense. Or am I being too brave?)

I give you this short video as example that is full of claims that have NO sense, are just wrong and have no scriptural ground. Why do the protestant think that we worship statues and make Mary a a goddess??? Is it because they LIKE to think this otherwise they would all have to become CATHOLICS??? It seems to me that the catholics don’t defend their faith enough…Maybe it would help if we left a few notes under the video…imagine, if there is 100 of them, maybe it would make them go and study a bit about the catholic faith so they opened their eyes and realise that we don’t pray to statues and what they say is a lie!!!

youtube.com/watch?v=03rAqZtpYQ8

Let me try to answer your question: Why do the Protestants think that we worship statues and make Mary a goddess??? (FYI, it’s not just Protestants who think this. I have a Hindu friend who says what Catholics do in my town is very similar to the offerings they make to their own statues.)

Here’s why:

Definition of the word idol and deity from www.Dictionary.com

Idol (noun): an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.

Deity (noun): 1. a god or goddess. 2. divine character or nature, esp. that of the Supreme Being; divinity.

I live in the northeast US in a town of about 25,000 people. This is what a Catholic church (about 2 blocks from my house) does every September:
Every year they take a life-sized statue of Mary on a platform and carry it on their shoulders throughout my town. I watch people run out of their houses and throw money and roses on the platform and get down on their hands and knees in front of it making the sign of the cross and place papers with prayers on it like this - Blessed Mary Mother of God: I need money - please help me win the lottery. (How do I know? One of the papers blew into my driveway and I opened it up and read it.)

You wanted to know why? That’s why.

" 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God. Leviticus 26:1

 

[Linda_Marie]

Baptists are just confused why Catholics seem to go to the “B” team to get stuff done. Do they think God is too busy? For those who have endured loss and hardship in life to become a believer, they can’t see why anyone would risk anything but whole-hearted worship and adoration of their jealous God?

It isn’t a matter of either/or, but both/and. We do not ask Mary or the Saints to pray for us without also asking the Father directly.

Neither Mary nor the Saints can be viewed on their own, without God. It is only their closeness with God that makes their prayers of value. If we make a prayer through St. Joseph, it is a prayer to the Father in the Name of the Son through the intercession of St. Joseph.

Do you ever pray for others? Do you pray for your family? Do others ever request your prayers for them? If you do pray for others, you are interceding with the Father for the people for whom you pray.

Why? Is God too busy to hear the prayers of the person who asked you to pray? Do you tell them not to ask you to pray for them because you are only Team B and they are much better off just going to the Father all by themselves?

I cannot understand how anyone could accept any Church which does not have the Promise of the Holy Spirit to guide Her always and which cannot trace its foundation back to Christ. Choosing anything other than this Church risks giving God less than wholehearted worship and adoration, and I will add, obedience. It says that one will only accept God on his own terms and rejects the Teaching of the Church which God Himself founded. One is part of the church, by virtue of their baptism, but not wholeheartedly, surrendering one’s will to God and to those whom God appointed to lead His Church. It places the soul in serious jeopardy.

As someone who was very headstrong and wilful, this was the most difficult thing for me. Obedience to the Teachings of the Church did not come naturally to me, but once God touched me, or rather took me by the scruff of the neck and gave me a good shake, there was no other response possible. The Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ and protected from error by the Holy Spirit. Obedience to the Church is obedience to God. I can’t imagine that God considers disobedience to be wholehearted worship and adoration.

 

[Deconi]

Sitting in Sunday School I am often called upon (or looked at) when discussing Non-Baptist vs Baptist POVs.

Here’s the deal…most (if not none) of the people at my church (Chinese & Southern Baptist) have never attended a Catholic mass, school or CCD. However, many have grown up in a non-Christian family (not something many Catholics experience). They came to Christ as a choice, some having to turn their backs on their governments (being branded outlaws, suffering persecution), and many being disowned by their families. There are also many generational Baptist families, too. They to God because he is stronger than drugs, stronger than abusive relationships… and surely more powerful than any government.

The majority of my catholic family, friends (including priests) have never been to any church other than a catholic church. Some have never even been to another Catholic church!! (That’s just crazy, if you ask me) They grew up in the nestled protection of the parish, with a family that was almost always all Catholic (even extended family). The only ridicule or danger in being Catholic was walking home past the public school in your uniform. Try having military police bash in your door and take everyone away to separate prisons for reading a subversive manual like the Bible.

All sides will think their view/disposition is the best. Most will not take the time to understand the other side’s POV or doctrine. So, here is my 27 years worth of Catholicism and 12 years of Baptist life.

The Baptists believe that God (and therefore the Trinity) is all powerful. God is it, what other high power do you need if the Boss of all boss’ can’t get it done. So the confusion with them is why (I almost said “we” ) Catholics pray to saints. And don’t say we (ok, there I go again)… don’t say Catholics don’t pray to saints. My mom, grandma and 37 other cousins all pray to patron saint (enter name here _______ ) to find stuff they lost, keep them safe on travels, healing of various ailments. Again, these may be generational issues, and perhaps the older generations hold more to this? I don’t know, I’ve been out of the Catholic church for 10 years. But I remember nuns in schools telling me to write “JMJ” on the top any test or quiz to ensure that Jesus, Mary & Joseph all helped me get a good grade. A baptist would just silently pray, “Help me Father”. Baptists are just confused why Catholics seem to go to the “B” team to get stuff done. Do they think God is too busy? For those who have endured loss and hardship in life to become a believer, they can’t see why anyone would risk anything but whole-hearted worship and adoration of their jealous God?

So that’s why they get confused or say what they say (and not one Baptist will say the same thing about Catholicism - unless they went to the same seminary ) We have to agree to disagree, and hope that when we get to Heaven that we can ALL laugh about it.

(Please note: note to Catholics - not all baptists are Bible thumpin’, fire & brimstone, damnation spouting bigots. Note to Baptists - not all Catholics attend Bingo night.)

The praying ‘through’ Saints and the BVM comes from **humility. ** Catholics NEVER, EVER, EVER…assume that we are saved once and for always! The existence of Confession attests to this also. We are sinners. From there comes the comprehension that even if we live as saintly as we can, we cannot be presumptuous to think ourselves worthy to approach The Almighty, Who permits no blemish in His presence!

Our Lord taught, and Sciptures attests, that God hears the prayers of the Righteous. He also responded, significantly, to the ‘request’ of His Mother at the Caanan wedding, seemingly, BEFORE His time as He states. (Voluminous treatments here of what it means, but God doesn’t do anything out His timing or against His own Will)

As a Baptist, I trust that my Pastor is a servant of God and teaches His Word. Therefore, of the two of us, God is most likely (from all evidence in Scriptures) to hear his servant before, or rather than, hear a sinner like me. SO!..I come to you to pray for me and ask you to ask God for (insert requirement here;_________) Of the two of us, you as Pastor is ‘righteous,’ on this earth and he will hear you. At face value, you are like the ‘saints’ and the Righteous men and women that Scriptures speak of! He will surely listen to you.

This is what Catholics are doing when they ‘pray to saints’ since they have been reckoned Righteous. There’s a patron saint for travelling, sailing, voyaging, the poor, the orphanages, food, sacrifice… and just about anything else!

We know Our Lord said to come unto Him for all things and He will answer! But in Catholic thought, we do not to count ourselves (automatically) WORTHY to ‘approach’ Him, even in prayer. We are sinners, in a wretched state and fear ‘blemishing’ His Presence, even through prayer!

We don’t actually expect that specific saint to answer our pleas on his or her own steam! If any saint appeared in some miracle of apparation, we know they were SENT by Him, in answer to a need, and they didn’t sneak off out of their own steam.

Since The Father is The Subject of our prayers and The Dispenser of our answers, the saints and His Mother are our (Catholic) A-Team in prayer! The B-Team are our brethren beside us!

I hope you see the difference! It is completely, and utterly, HUMILITY!

We ask God directly for everything, but as sinners, we know we need all the help we can muster and we do not want to be presumptuous.

 

[Reuben_J]

I live in the northeast US in a town of about 25,000 people. This is what a Catholic church (about 2 blocks from my house) does every September:
Every year they take a life-sized statue of Mary on a platform and carry it on their shoulders throughout my town. I watch people run out of their houses and throw money and roses on the platform and get down on their hands and knees in front of it making the sign of the cross and place papers with prayers on it like this - Blessed Mary Mother of God: I need money - please help me win the lottery. (How do I know? One of the papers blew into my driveway and I opened it up and read it.)

You wanted to know why? That’s why.

" 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God. Leviticus 26:1

So Protestants make that conclusion about Catholicism from the things they see what Catholics are doing. Instead of thinking, do these Catholics do the right thing; is it within the context of their religion?

Can’t blame you though. People are lazy to find out the truth of another. Perhaps they have never heard of Mother Teresa or have never seen a Catholic who does not pray for a win in lottery or who thinks it is greedy therefore wrong to pray to win a lottery.

 

[Reuben_J]

I do not know much about Protestants but I am sorry for you if the majority of you are this ignorant and do not care for knowledge about what’s going on in the street of your neighborhood. This can apply to Catholics too, no doubt, who are ignorant about Protestants, maybe for a person like me. I try to find out, sometimes, what you actually believe and I disagree where appropriate, but I hope for the life of me that I will not impute into you what you do not actually believe.

God bless.

 

[KathleenGee]

They spend more time, I think, in their churches using the Catholic Church as the model of wrong doing that they are indirectly being taught pride about how good they are, not realizing that pride is the greatest of all sins.

So they are trained to believe all our materials are idolatry but can’t read them to look beyond the surface.

That person who put in he wished to win the lottery is like alot of human beings who are greatly suffering in this country because they have no job…they are desperate and they go to whatever means they can find that they will think will help them.

 

[JohnT58]

Dear friends

Is it because they LIKE to think this otherwise they would all have to become CATHOLICS??? It seems to me that the catholics don’t defend their faith enough…Maybe it would help if we left a few notes under the video…imagine, if there is 100 of them,

youtube.com/watch?v=03rAqZtpYQ8

The startrekkie strikes again. I think we should respond to these when we can. Get on board everyone, nip these lies in the bud.
youtube.com/watch?v=03rAqZtpYQ8

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Let me try to answer your question: Why do the Protestants think that we worship statues and make Mary a goddess??? (FYI, it’s not just Protestants who think this. I have a Hindu friend who says what Catholics do in my town is very similar to the offerings they make to their own statues.)

Here’s why:

Definition of the word idol and deity from www.Dictionary.com

Idol (noun): an image or other material object representing a deity to which religious worship is addressed.

Deity (noun): 1. a god or goddess. 2. divine character or nature, esp. that of the Supreme Being; divinity.

You wanted to know why? That’s why.

" 'Do not make idols or set up an image or a sacred stone for yourselves, and do not place a carved stone in your land to bow down before it. I am the LORD your God. Leviticus 26:1

It appears to be a case of assuming, then judging.

I’m afraid those who think such things are mistaken. I ask Mary to pray for me, to the Lored our God.

If we take the verse to mean what you think it means, then we find a contradiction in scriptures. Was the Lord pleased with the Temple Solomon built?

**1Ki 6:23 And he made in the oracle two cherubims of olive tree, of ten cubits in height.
1Ki 6:24 One wing of the cherub was five cubits, and the other wing of the cherub was five cubits: that is, in all ten cubits, from the extremity of one wing to the extremity of the other wing.
1Ki 6:25 The second cherub also was ten cubits: and the measure, and the work was the same in both the cherubims:
1Ki 6:26 That is to say, one cherub was ten cubits high, and in like manner the other cherub.
1Ki 6:27 And he set the cherubims in the midst of the inner temple: and the cherubims stretched forth their wings, and the wing of the one touched one wall, and the wing of the other cherub touched the other wall: and the other wings in the midst of the temple touched one another.
1Ki 6:28 And he overlaid the cherubims with gold.
1Ki 6:29 And all the walls of the temple round about he carved with divers figures and carvings: and he made in them cherubims and palm trees, and divers representations, as it were standing out, and coming forth from the wall.

1Ki 7:25 And it stood upon twelve oxen, of which three looked towards the north, and three towards the west, and three towards the south, and three towards the east: and the sea was above upon them, and their hinder parts were all hid within.
1Ki 7:26 And the laver was a hand breadth thick: and the brim thereof was like the brim of a cup, or the leaf of a crisped lily: it contained two thousand bates.
1Ki 7:27 And he made ten bases of brass, every base was four cubits in length, and four cubits in breadth, and three cubits high.
1Ki 7:28 And the work itself of the bases, was intergraven: and there were gravings between the joinings.
1Ki 7:29 And between the little crowns and the ledges, were lions, and oxen, and cherubims; and in the joinings likewise above: and under the lions and oxen, as it were bands of brass hanging down.
1Ki 7:30 And every base had four wheels, and axletrees of brass: and at the four sides were undersetters, under the laver molten, looking one against another.
1Ki 7:31 The mouth also of the laver within, was in the top of the chapiter: and that which appeared without, was of one cubit all round, and together it was one cubit and a half: and in the corners of the pillars were divers engravings: and the spaces between the pillars were square, not round.
1Ki 7:32 And the four whee]s, which were at the four corners of the base, were joined one to another under the base: the height of a wheel was a cubit and a half.
1Ki 7:33 And they were such wheels as are used to be made in a chariot: and their axletrees, and spokes, and strakes, and naves, were all cast.
1Ki 7:34 And the four undersetters, that were at every corner of each base, were of the base itself, cast and joined together.
1Ki 7:35 And on the top of the base, there was a round compass of half a cubit, so wrought that the laver might be set thereon, having its gravings, and divers sculptures of itself.
1Ki 7:36 He engraved also in those plates, which were of brass, and in the corners, cherubims, and lions, and palm trees, in likeness of a man standing, so that they seemed not to be engraven, but added round about.
1Ki 7:37 After this manner, he made ten bases, of one casting and measure, and the like graving.
1Ki 7:38 He made also ten lavers of brass: one laver contained four bates, and was of four cubits: and upon every base, in all ten, he put as many lavers.
1Ki 7:39 And he set the ten bases, five on the right side of the temple, and five on the left: and the sea he put on the right side of the temple, over against the east southward.
1Ki 7:40 And Hiram made cauldrons, and shovels, and basins, and finished all the work of king Solomon in the temple of the Lord.
1Ki 7:41 The two pillars and the two cords of the chapiters, upon the chapiters of the pillars: and the two networks, to cover the two cords, that were upon the top of the pillars.
1Ki 7:42 And four hundred pomegranates for the two networks: two rows of pomegranates for each network, to cover the cords of the chapiters, which were upon the tops of the pillars.
1Ki 7:43 And the ten bases, and the ten lavers on the bases.
1Ki 7:44 And one sea, and twelve oxen under the sea.
1Ki 7:45 And the cauldrons, and the shovels, and the basins. All the vessels that Hiram made for king Solomon, for the house of the Lord, were of fine brass.**

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

They spend more time, I think, in their churches using the Catholic Church as the model of wrong doing that they are indirectly being taught pride about how good they are, not realizing that pride is the greatest of all sins.

So they are trained to believe all our materials are idolatry but can’t read them to look beyond the surface.

That person who put in he wished to win the lottery is like alot of human beings who are greatly suffering in this country because they have no job…they are desperate and they go to whatever means they can find that they will think will help them.

Laughable. Even when idol worship is staring you right in the face, you still can’t admit it. When your in the act of bowing down to a statue…and the bible says not to…you still just can’t admit that it’s wrong. VERY sad.

The Hindu guy told me the agree with what you do. They make offerings to the idol representatives of their gods too. So, yeah, there are folks out there that agree with you all the way. I do not. I am an ex-Catholic. At one time, I was blind just as you are, and then one day, you look at what you’re doing and say - I just bowed down before a statue. Bowing down to the statue makes the statue an idol.

It’s staring you right in the face. Snap out of it.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Did the people bow down before the ark of the covenant? Were they worshipping the ark of the covenant or did they worship God through something holy?

Exo 25:10 Frame an ark of setim wood, the length whereof shall be of two cubits and a half; the breadth, a cubit and a half; the height, likewise, a cubit and a half.
Exo 25:11 And thou shalt overlay it with the purest gold, within and without; and over it thou shalt make a golden crown round about:
Exo 25:12 And four golden rings, which thou shalt put at the four corners of the ark: let two rings be on the one side, and two on the other.
Exo 25:13 Thou shalt make bars also of setim wood, and shalt overlay them with gold.
Exo 25:14 And thou shalt put them in through the rings that are in the sides of the ark, that it may be carried on them:
Exo 25:15 And they shall be always in the rings, neither shall they at any time be drawn out of them.
Exo 25:16 And thou shalt put in the ark the testimony which I will give thee.
Exo 25:17 Thou shalt make also a propitiatory of the purest gold: the length thereof shall be two cubits and a half, and the breadth a cubit and a half.
Exo 25:18 Thou shalt make also two cherubims of beaten gold, on the two sides of the oracle.
Exo 25:19 Let one cherub be on the one side, and the other on the other.
Exo 25:20 Let them cover both sides of the propitiatory, spreading their wings, and covering the oracle, and let them look one towards the other, their faces being turned towards the propitiatory wherewith the ark is to to be covered.
Exo 25:21 In which thou shalt put the testimony that I will give thee.
Exo 25:22 Thence will I give orders, and will speak to thee over the propitiatory, and from the midst of the two cherubims, which shall be upon the ark of the testimony, all things which I will command the children of Israel by thee.

Exo 37:1 And Beseleel made also, the ark of setim wood: it was two cubits and a half in length, and a cubit and a half in breadth, and the height was of one cubit and a half: and he overlaid it with the purest gold within and without.
Exo 37:2 And he made to it a crown of gold round about,
Exo 37:3 Casting four rings of gold at the four corners thereof: two rings in one side, and two in the other.
Exo 37:4 And he made bars of setim wood, which he overlaid with gold,
Exo 37:5 And he put them into the rings that were at the sides of the ark to carry it.
Exo 37:6 He made also the propitiatory, that is, the oracle, of the purest gold, two cubits and a half in length, and a cubit and a half in breadth.
Exo 37:7 Two cherubims also of beaten gold, which he set on the two sides of the propitiatory:
Exo 37:8 One cherub in the top of one side, and the other cherub in the top of the other side: two cherubims at the two ends of the propitiatory,
Exo 37:9 Spreading their wings, and covering the propitiatory, and looking one towards the other, and towards it.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

It appears to be a case of assuming, then judging.

I’m afraid those who think such things are mistaken. I ask Mary to pray for me, to the Lored our God.

If we take the verse to mean what you think it means, then we find a contradiction in scriptures. Was the Lord pleased with the Temple Solomon built?

1Ki 6:23 And he made in the oracle two cherubims of olive tree, of ten cubits in height.
1Ki 6:24 One wing of the cherub was five cubits, and the other wing of the cherub was five cubits: that is, in all ten cubits, from the extremity of one wing to the extremity of the other wing.
1Ki 6:25 The second cherub also was ten cubits: and the measure, and the work was the same in both the cherubims:
1Ki 6:26 That is to say, one cherub was ten cubits high, and in like manner the other cherub.
1Ki 6:27 And he set the cherubims in the midst of the inner temple: and the cherubims stretched forth their wings, and the wing of the one touched one wall, and the wing of the other cherub touched the other wall: and the other wings in the midst of the temple touched one another.
1Ki 6:28 And he overlaid the cherubims with gold.
1Ki 6:29 And all the walls of the temple round about he carved with divers figures and carvings: and he made in them cherubims and palm trees, and divers representations, as it were standing out, and coming forth from the wall.

1Ki 7:25 And it stood upon twelve oxen, of which three looked towards the north, and three towards the west, and three towards the south, and three towards the east: and the sea was above upon them, and their hinder parts were all hid within.
1Ki 7:26 And the laver was a hand breadth thick: and the brim thereof was like the brim of a cup, or the leaf of a crisped lily: it contained two thousand bates.
1Ki 7:27 And he made ten bases of brass, every base was four cubits in length, and four cubits in breadth, and three cubits high.
1Ki 7:28 And the work itself of the bases, was intergraven: and there were gravings between the joinings.
1Ki 7:29 And between the little crowns and the ledges, were lions, and oxen, and cherubims; and in the joinings likewise above: and under the lions and oxen, as it were bands of brass hanging down.
1Ki 7:30 And every base had four wheels, and axletrees of brass: and at the four sides were undersetters, under the laver molten, looking one against another.
1Ki 7:31 The mouth also of the laver within, was in the top of the chapiter: and that which appeared without, was of one cubit all round, and together it was one cubit and a half: and in the corners of the pillars were divers engravings: and the spaces between the pillars were square, not round.
1Ki 7:32 And the four whee]s, which were at the four corners of the base, were joined one to another under the base: the height of a wheel was a cubit and a half.
1Ki 7:33 And they were such wheels as are used to be made in a chariot: and their axletrees, and spokes, and strakes, and naves, were all cast.
1Ki 7:34 And the four undersetters, that were at every corner of each base, were of the base itself, cast and joined together.
1Ki 7:35 And on the top of the base, there was a round compass of half a cubit, so wrought that the laver might be set thereon, having its gravings, and divers sculptures of itself.
1Ki 7:36 He engraved also in those plates, which were of brass, and in the corners, cherubims, and lions, and palm trees, in likeness of a man standing, so that they seemed not to be engraven, but added round about.
1Ki 7:37 After this manner, he made ten bases, of one casting and measure, and the like graving.
1Ki 7:38 He made also ten lavers of brass: one laver contained four bates, and was of four cubits: and upon every base, in all ten, he put as many lavers.
1Ki 7:39 And he set the ten bases, five on the right side of the temple, and five on the left: and the sea he put on the right side of the temple, over against the east southward.
1Ki 7:40 And Hiram made cauldrons, and shovels, and basins, and finished all the work of king Solomon in the temple of the Lord.
1Ki 7:41 The two pillars and the two cords of the chapiters, upon the chapiters of the pillars: and the two networks, to cover the two cords, that were upon the top of the pillars.
1Ki 7:42 And four hundred pomegranates for the two networks: two rows of pomegranates for each network, to cover the cords of the chapiters, which were upon the tops of the pillars.
1Ki 7:43 And the ten bases, and the ten lavers on the bases.
1Ki 7:44 And one sea, and twelve oxen under the sea.
1Ki 7:45 And the cauldrons, and the shovels, and the basins. All the vessels that Hiram made for king Solomon, for the house of the Lord, were of fine brass.

My reply to you is the same as Kathleen.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Laughable. Even when idol worship is staring you right in the face, you still can’t admit it. When your in the act of bowing down to a statue…and the bible says not to…you still just can’t admit that it’s wrong. VERY sad.

The Hindu guy told me the agree with what you do. They make offerings to the idol representatives of their gods too. So, yeah, there are folks out there that agree with you all the way. I do not. I am an ex-Catholic. At one time, I was blind just as you are, and then one day, you look at what you’re doing and say - I just bowed down before a statue. Bowing down to the statue makes the statue an idol.

It’s staring you right in the face. Snap out of it.

There is no ‘snapping out of it’. We don’t listen to what someone who prefers to tell us what we believe and practice as opposed to what we actually believe and practice. Now, that is sad. What other aspects of Catholicism do you judge as wrong?

Mary is not divine. She is the mother of the Lord. She represents a submission to the will of the Father.

Are you also condemning any Protestants who have a picture of Jesus in their homes? Or is your grevious misconceptions only held against Catholics?

You don’t respond to scriptures about the ark or the Temple, that Solomon built, to maintain your objections to Catholicism???

 

[Ingram]

As a protestant, I agree with you: It upsets me greatly when I hear things said about the CC that I know are lies. I have done a great deal of reading and try to compile a listing of the lies so when I hear them again I can confront (OK, too strong a word) them with the truth.

I would love to sit down with a group of evangelicals and catholics, as in ECT, and just talk, and learn. I don’t quite know how to go about this, yet; I fear it breaking down into a shout-fest.

If anyone has experience with this sort of thing, I’d like to hear about it. The more I learn about what the CC truly teaches (and after all, the CC make it so easy to learn what it teaches: a simple search on the Catechism is all it takes–what, maybe a couple of minutes of research?

Not that I agree on everything…yet. But it seems the more I learn the closer I come. I think I now can say I disagree with the Reformation more than with the CC.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

My reply to you is the same as Kathleen.

Does your preacher/pastor wear fine linen vestments as commanded by the Lord?

Exo 39:1 And he made, of violet and purple, scarlet and fine linen, the vestments for Aaron to wear when he ministered in the holy places, as the Lord commanded Moses.

Exo 40:13 Thou shalt put on them the holy vestments, that they may minister to me, and that the unction of them may prosper to an everlasting priesthood.

Does your Church use candles and incense as commanded by the Lord?

Exo 40:24 (40:22) He set the candlestick also in the tabernacle of the testimony, over against the table on the south side,
Exo 40:25 (40:23) Placing the lamps in order, according to the precept of the Lord.
Exo 40:26 (40:24) He set also the altar of gold under the roof of the testimony, over against the veil,
Exo 40:27 (40:25) And burnt upon it the incense of spices, as the Lord had commanded Moses.

How about the bread as commanded by the Lord?

Exo 40:23 (40:21) Setting there in order the loaves of proposition, as the Lord had commanded Moses.

Does your Church have the tabernacle of the covenant and the altar?

Exo 40:32 (40:30) When they went into the tabernacle of the covenant, and went to the altar, as the Lord had commanded Moses.

Is there a place to wash with water in your Church?

Exo 40:12 And thou shalt bring Aaron and his sons to the door of the tabernacle of the testimony, and having washed them with water,

These, also, are commandments of the Lord. These, also, can be found in the Catholic Church.

As for your concern over the statues of holy examples, they all point to God, and no other gods.

 

[Matthew_P_Muehl]

They spend more time, I think, in their churches using the Catholic Church as the model of wrong doing that they are indirectly being taught pride about how good they are, not realizing that pride is the greatest of all sins.

So they are trained to believe all our materials are idolatry but can’t read them to look beyond the surface.

That person who put in he wished to win the lottery is like alot of human beings who are greatly suffering in this country because they have no job…they are desperate and they go to whatever means they can find that they will think will help them.

Hello KathleenGee… My girl friend is a hardcore southern baptist and her preacher often speaks against the catholic church or any other denomination for that matter.
She has been taught many false ideas about the catholic church and i’m having a very hard time leading her to the truth. It’s almost as though she has been brainwashed against the truth. It seems the only truth she will accept is that which is told her by her preacher.
I pray that with the help of the holy spirit i will be able to open her eyes to the only true church there is.

May god bless you and yours

Matt

 

[Pixie_Dust]

Laughable. Even when idol worship is staring you right in the face, you still can’t admit it. When your in the act of bowing down to a statue…and the bible says not to…you still just can’t admit that it’s wrong. VERY sad.

The Hindu guy told me the agree with what you do. They make offerings to the idol representatives of their gods too. So, yeah, there are folks out there that agree with you all the way. I do not. I am an ex-Catholic. At one time, I was blind just as you are, and then one day, you look at what you’re doing and say - I just bowed down before a statue. Bowing down to the statue makes the statue an idol.

It’s staring you right in the face. Snap out of it.

Nothing to “snap out of” here. Catholics bow down and worship the Triune God and only God. Bowing down before God while in close proximity to a statue may appear that the person is bowing to the statue, but “God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.” ~ I Samuel 16:7

If you were praying to the statues in your Catholic Church because someone told you that was acceptable behavior for a Catholic, I’d like to give your “catechist” 40 lashes with a wet noodle.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

Nothing to “snap out of” here. Catholics bow down and worship the Triune God and only God. Bowing down before God while in close proximity to a statue may appear that the person is bowing to the statue, but “God sees not as man sees, for man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.” ~ I Samuel 16:7

If you were praying to the statues in your Catholic Church because someone told you that was acceptable behavior for a Catholic, I’d like to give your “catechist” 40 lashes with a wet noodle.

Here’s the thing - The original poster asked the question:

Why do the Protestants think that we worship statues and make Mary a goddess???

Here’s why:

When you see folks marching a statue of Mary on a platform in the streets of a city, accept offerings thrown at it, and then bow down to it (some on their knees, some all the way down on the street with their faces and SOME reaching up on the platform to touch it) - well that’s WHY folks (not just Protestants) think you worship statues and make Mary a goddess.

If that person wasn’t worshipping the statue - why were they trying to touch it? It’s a rock. It’s an inanimate object. It’s an idol of Mary.

 

[Reuben_J]

Bowing down to the statue makes the statue an idol.

It’s staring you right in the face. Snap out of it.

I guess when an oriental bows at you, that makes you their god.

Or the angel suddenly became Lot’s God.
Genesis 19:1
And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground

Or Joseph suddenly became the God of his brothers.
Genesis 43:28
And they answered, Thy servant our father is in good health, he is yet alive. And they bowed down their heads, and made obeisance.

Or Ruth suddenly made her future husband her God.
Ruth 2:10
Then she fell on her face, and bowed herself to the ground, and said unto him, Why have I found grace in thine eyes, that thou shouldest take knowledge of me, seeing I am a stranger?

Or David suddenly made Saul his God.
1 Samuel 24:8
David also arose afterward, and went out of the cave, and cried after Saul, saying, My lord the king. And when Saul looked behind him, David stooped with his face to the earth, and bowed himself.

Or Bethseba suddenly made her husband David her God.
1 Kings 1:31
Then Bathsheba bowed with her face to the earth, and did reverence to the king, and said, Let my lord king David live for ever.

I could go on and on, but it sounds as if I am blaspheming, trying to ridicule God.