Protestants: Tackle This

[shawn38]

what you have to understand is although the Gospel says that we have been saved through Baptism, Faith, and so forth, it does not mean that we cannot loose this Salvation. we all know it is by the Grace of God. we all know this. Jesus told us this when He came to witness to the Truth and was put to death. …

Then the question becomes “Did you ever truly accept Christ?” Romans 10 and 1 Cor 15. If you did, you will continue in the faith.

once one come into the Church, believes and is baptized he is given instruction on what he must do from that point on. …

You may go into a building, but you don’t come into the body of the church until you accept Christ. At that point you are set apart.

the conversion of sinners does not stop with Baptism and just Faith. there are many things that he must learn within the Faith. he must persevere in the Faith, he must put in practice his Faith by doing all the things Jesus told us to do…

The conversion of sinners begins with repentence, belief, and baptism. We are expected to grow in the faith (ie milk to meat). We are to building upon that foundation which is Christ.

Jesus stablished a Church to teach us on how to persever on the Faith.

We are the church, everyone who repents and believes. The basic meaning of the church: a people holy & set apart from the world. Many topics on this though.

it is not about going to a building to listen to a pastor preach in a verse of the Bible.

We are to assemble. True that we don’t have to go to a building. We can assemble anywhere.

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed; but comforting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching.

it is so much more than that. only the CC can reveal to us what the Faith is all about. the Sacraments. Jesus gave us the Sacraments.

Baptism and marriage agreed. The rest we will have to disagree. A lot of topics on those too.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Then the question becomes “Did you ever truly accept Christ?” Romans 10 and 1 Cor 15. If you did, you will continue in the faith.

You may go into a building, but you don’t come into the body of the church until you accept Christ. At that point you are set apart.

The conversion of sinners begins with repentence, belief, and baptism. We are expected to grow in the faith (ie milk to meat). We are to building upon that foundation which is Christ.

We are the church, everyone who repents and believes. The basic meaning of the church: a people holy & set apart from the world. Many topics on this though.

We are to assemble. True that we don’t have to go to a building. We can assemble anywhere.

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed; but comforting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching.

Baptism and marriage agreed. The rest we will have to disagree. A lot of topics on those too.

you are a very funny guy. hahaha… funny indeed. seek and you shall find. ask and you shall receive. knock and shall be opened to you. figure this out for yourself.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Then the question becomes “Did you ever truly accept Christ?” Romans 10 and 1 Cor 15. If you did, you will continue in the faith.

You may go into a building, but you don’t come into the body of the church until you accept Christ. At that point you are set apart.

What you say is ‘accepting’ is the same as Catholics believing.

The conversion of sinners begins with repentence, belief, and baptism. We are expected to grow in the faith (ie milk to meat). We are to building upon that foundation which is Christ.

Catholics confess they are sinners at every Mass and in confession. Confession is confessing one’s sins with a contrite heart and repentance.

We are the church, everyone who repents and believes. The basic meaning of the church: a people holy & set apart from the world. Many topics on this though.

Christ built a Church, ekklēsia. Here is the ‘basic’ meaning:

G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see’-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

We are to assemble. True that we don’t have to go to a building. We can assemble anywhere.

Heb 10:25 Not forsaking our assembly, as some are accustomed; but comforting one another, and so much the more as you see the day approaching.

You seem to forget that the early Church was being persectuted, under the penalty of death. You also seem to say there is a contradiction in the Bible, since some said ‘ekklēsia’ and Paul said ‘episunagōgē’ in Hebrews 10.

G1997
ἐπισυναγωγή
episunagōgē
ep-ee-soon-ag-o-gay’
From G1996; a complete collection; specifically a Christian meeting (for worship): - assembling (gathering) together.

Paul also used ‘ekklēsia’.

**1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Eph 3:10 That the manifold wisdom of God may be made known to the principalities and powers in heavenly places through the church, **

There was another time Jesus used ‘ekklēsia’.

Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

With the authority to bind and loose, as a hierarchy is able to do and not every single individual.

 

[shawn38]

you are a very funny guy. hahaha… funny indeed. seek and you shall find. ask and you shall receive. knock and shall be opened to you. figure this out for yourself.

I failed to see the humor, but perhaps we are misunderstanding one another.

You come into the church, that is the body of Christ, when you believe and accept Christ into your heart. It is at that point you are a new creation, created in Christ Jesus.

 

[shawn38]

What you say is ‘accepting’ is the same as Catholics believing.

Perhaps that’s what he meant but the order was mixed up. You don’t come part of the church, that is the body of Christ, until you repent and believe.

Catholics confess they are sinners at every Mass and in confession. Confession is confessing one’s sins with a contrite heart and repentance…

I know: “I profess to you almighty God, and to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned through my own fault, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do…” Quite familiar with the prayer. I said it a thousand times when I was a Catholic.

You seem to forget that the early Church was being persectuted, under the penalty of death. You also seem to say there is a contradiction in the Bible, since some said ‘ekklēsia’ and Paul said ‘episunagōgē’ in Hebrews 10…

Transliteration: ekklésia Short Definition: assembly
from ek and kaleó Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation

Transliteration: episunagógé Short Definition: meeting
Word Origin from episunagó Definition: a gathering together, an assembly

I know the early church was persecuted. I don’t see any contradiction. It is an assembly. We can assemble in a building, house, where ever. Where two or more gather in Christ’s name you have a church.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Perhaps that’s what he meant but the order was mixed up. You don’t come part of the church, that is the body of Christ, until you repent and believe.

I know: “I profess to you almighty God, and to you my brothers and sisters that I have sinned through my own fault, in what I have done, and in what I have failed to do…” Quite familiar with the prayer. I said it a thousand times when I was a Catholic.

Transliteration: ekklésia Short Definition: assembly
from ek and kaleó Definition: an assembly, a (religious) congregation

Transliteration: episunagógé Short Definition: meeting
Word Origin from episunagó Definition: a gathering together, an assembly

I know the early church was persecuted. I don’t see any contradiction. It is an assembly. We can assemble in a building, house, where ever. Where two or more gather in Christ’s name you have a church.

It’s heading for another topic but, when Christ said where two or more gather together, He was describing how His Church’s authority, men of the Church (notice He was in a conversation with His Apostles and not a multitude), could have confidence that they could make decisions within His Church and how they should instruct the laity. This is clearly evident by Him stating, ‘Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.’ No matter how one reads it, that cannot be interpreted that we ALL have that authority.

Mat 18:16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand.
Mat 18:17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican.
Mat 18:18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.
Mat 18:19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning anything whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven.
Mat 18:20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

As for your definition of ‘ekklēsia’, why did you leave out the full definition?

G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see’-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

I failed to see the humor, but perhaps we are misunderstanding one another.

You come into the church, that is the body of Christ, when you believe and accept Christ into your heart. It is at that point you are a new creation, created in Christ Jesus.

i quite understand what you are saying. i really do. you think just because a pastor invite you to accept Jesus into your heart, at that moment you are saved. i know what you are saying. after you accept Jesus, what else are you to do?

 

[litlechristian]

ok for the fist veres in jhon its kinda like that saying where you can say something all you want but untill you act it ourt it means nothing, its the same thing here. for exampel if i say im a Christian but dont live it out (because christianity isnt jus a sunday morning thig, its a lifestyle) then what i said means nothing or is dead.
as for the revelation veres. that is in a literal since. Whenthe Lord returns for his people the living and the dead will be taken up so jus as a living christians body will be takin so will the dead. and they will be juged on what they did in this life or deeds. so yes gGod will look in the book of life and if your not in it your in the book of the dead and you will go to hell.
so there it is…i think i tackeld it

 

[rdscheirer]

Nobody gets it-Love the Lord God with all your heart and soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself.
Follow these commandments and good works will flow.

 

[larkin31]

Saying something is false means nothing. PROVE IT. Show me where I am wrong.

Your claim should not be dignified with a further response. Your claim merits nothing more than a “wrong” because it was given no support. I might as well say that I can call you an adulterer, and then say to you that the claim is TRUE until you bother to prove otherwise.

no thanks

You are rude and disrespectful to people who you are responding to. Respond to ideas, not the people. Even right here, you are showing your disrespect, when you say, "what is with you folks?" You will be banned soon if you don’t shape up.

You have brought NOTHING to the table. If Catholics are so IGNORANT, teach us.

For someone who tells me to stop addressing the poster, you are sure doing a lot of it.

Quote ONE rude remark I have made. That word “ignorant” is yours, not mine. I would appreciate it if you would not attribute to me words I do not use.

Thank you

And stop threatening to ban me. This thread was a challenge and invitation to Protestants. Here some of us are…

 

[Teneas]

Catholics (the people in the Church) are not always right… they are human. I think what protestants cant wrap their head around (for the most part) is that… The institution of the Catholic Church has had 2000 years of discourse, councels, access to the Gospels, Fathers ect way before anyone… well because its the Church and these things are hers. When the Church has reformed ITSELF or ridded its self of bad doctrin (nosticism ect) it has reformed with in ITSELF… It is Catholic belief that only it since it was handed the keys can reform itself (no good Catholic will tell you it hasnt needed change)… It can not come from the outside which is what protestantism is… it is outside the Church it is splintered and unhealthy… it is constantly going through reforming its self with no authority that is why it constantly dies and recreates its self over 33000 times. It is the constant human fitting of scripture into our own compartmentalized box of our mind.

 

[shawn38]

i quite understand what you are saying. i really do. you think just because a pastor invite you to accept Jesus into your heart, at that moment you are saved. i know what you are saying. after you accept Jesus, what else are you to do?

I don’t think just because a pastor invites you to accept Jesus you are saved. Providing lip service doesn’t change the heart. You have to be open to receiving the Spirit and be willing to continue in the faith or have you truly accepted Christ? Probably not

 

[shawn38]

Nobody gets it-Love the Lord God with all your heart and soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself.
Follow these commandments and good works will flow.

I get it completely.

Do people think it is possible to love the Lord with all their heart and soul if they are doing it out of obligation?

You are to love out of charity, not compulsion.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I get it completely.

Do people think it is possible to love the Lord with all their heart and soul if they are doing it out of obligation?

You are to love out of charity, not compulsion.

I think it’s possible to love the Lord with all your heart and realize just how obligated we are to Him.

Shawn, it seems you only twist words to keep a wedge between us.

I love my wife and remember our vows, before God. She loves me. Because of my love for her, I AM obligated to her. I chose, and choose, to be, obligated to her… It’s not out of a compulsion, it’s out of my love for her.

 

[shawn38]

I think it’s possible to love the Lord with all your heart and realize just how obligated we are to Him.

Shawn, it seems you only twist words to keep a wedge between us.

I love my wife and remember our vows, before God. She loves me. Because of my love for her, I AM obligated to her. I chose, and choose, to be, obligated to her… It’s not out of a compulsion, it’s out of my love for her.

I was just thinking of an example similar to this.

Ask your wife which would be more impactful to her of your love for her?

She asks you, “why you don’t buy her flowers anymore?” So later on that day you go out and buy her roses since you love her.

or

Out of the blue, you surprise her with roses just because you love her.

In the end, she has the flowers you think she wanted when in reality it’s more about her perception of youir love for her. But I think there’s a significant difference between being compelled to buy her flowers out of love versus wanting to buy her flowers just because you love her.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

Wow, mocking and taking the Lord’s name in vain in one post. How charitable of a Christian you are.

When I say, “Oh, my Lord.” I’m crying out to him - not taking his name in vain. Please don’t assume what I am doing - ASK ME!!!

And I’m mocking? Did you read the response that person wrote about Protestents. I’m not going to sit by and stand for that. “Catholics are always right…give me a break.” You live in the world just as I do.

I’m sick and tired of people talking like this about Protestents! Insulting!

 

[fishisgood]

I get it completely.

Do people think it is possible to love the Lord with all their heart and soul if they are doing it out of obligation?

You are to love out of charity, not compulsion.

This is a statement I think that represents many former Catholics that were poorly chaticized (to no fault of there own and not you in particular Shawn)… many feel that they get hit with a book of rules and regs… As someone who reverted and never went to Catholic school I see somthing totally different. That commandments and obligations are the Church’s expression of turning the people of the Church toward God… When you do not participate in the mass, when you look at porn, when you lie and decieve you turn your face away from God creating a slippery slope of immorality and blindness to what is right and wrong. When you fully participate in the Mass with all your heart and recieve the sacriments with all your heart you turn to God… If you go through the motions like many you become lost… this is how people lose clairity on morality and values ie birth controll is fine, “taking a pro choice stance” and on and on. Protestantism has always to me been a “feel good position”… “I dont like what this church sais because it doesnt allow me to do what I like” then its defended with personal interpritation of scripture. Its clear using the Bible as your own personal authority is dangerous… many can rationalize anything with it… its the assumption that our view of right and wrong is already right.

 

[fishisgood]

When I say, “Oh, my Lord.” I’m crying out to him - not taking his name in vain. Please don’t assume what I am doing - ASK ME!!!

And I’m mocking? Did you read the response that person wrote about Protestents. I’m not going to sit by and stand for that. “Catholics are always right…give me a break.” You live in the world just as I do.

I’m sick and tired of people talking like this about Protestents! Insulting!

Sais the guy on a Catholic forum

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I was just thinking of an example similar to this.

Ask your wife which would be more impactful to her of your love for her?

She asks you, “why you don’t buy her flowers anymore?” So later on that day you go out and buy her roses since you love her.

or

Out of the blue, you surprise her with roses just because you love her.

In the end, she has the flowers you think she wanted when in reality it’s more about her perception of youir love for her. But I think there’s a significant difference between being compelled to buy her flowers out of love versus wanting to buy her flowers just because you love her.

Well apparently I can’t make you understand, or you can’t bring yourself to agree that we agree, even though we express it with different terms.

Buying flowers for my wife out of the blue is an obligation I committed myself too through my love for her.

As for one’s perception of our love, God knows us better than we know ourselves and I’m sure He understands that through He immense love for us, and my love of Him, I am obligated to respond to His love.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

When I say, “Oh, my Lord.” I’m crying out to him - not taking his name in vain. Please don’t assume what I am doing - ASK ME!!!

And I’m mocking? Did you read the response that person wrote about Protestents. I’m not going to sit by and stand for that. “Catholics are always right…give me a break.” You live in the world just as I do.

I’m sick and tired of people talking like this about Protestents! Insulting!

You actually crossed the line by referring to Catholicism as a ‘cult’. As for the excuse, it’s in response to what someone else said, does two wrongs make a right? Are we to ‘get even’ as if vengeance is ours to take?

The rules plainly state that non-Catholics must be respectful of the Catholic faith. Referring to it as a ‘cult’ is disrespectful, to say the least.

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