Protestants: What are the "Basics" that all Non-Catholic Christians agree on? And who determines what the "basics" are?

[Cat]

What do Protestants mean by the word “basics” when they say: **"Christians **“non-Catholics”, all believe the same when it comes to the basics."?

What are these “basics” they’re talking about? Is there a list somewhere? If there is, where did that list come from?

Only come to this next question if the above questions can be answered: how can the average non-Catholic Christian be certain that the basics are the basics?

btw - I’ve never met a non-Catholic who believes in any creeds. A creed is considered way “too Catholic” by the non-Catholics I’ve met.

I listed the Five Fundamentals of the Christian faith. If you Google “Fundamentals of the Christian Faith,” you will find the origin of these fundamentals. Basically, they are men’s summary of the Christian Gospel. They are distilled from the traditional teachings of Christianity, going way back to the beginning of the Catholic Church. That’s why Catholics agree with the Five Fundamentals, too–because these Fundamentals came out of Catholic Christianity.

Yes, there are plenty of Protestant denominations that believe in creeds. Almost all of the Mainline Protestant denoms are creedal churches. These include the Lutherans, Calvinists (Reformed and Presbyterian), Episcopal (Anglican in the UK), Congregationalists, United Church of Christ, and Methodist. In other words, we’re talking about the older denominations.

But many of the Baptist denoms also accept the creeds, including the Apostles’ Creed and the Nicene Creed. I grew up in a denomination (Conference Baptist) that recited the Creed once a year. They are not considered “creedal” churches because they accept the Bible, not a creed, as sole authority. But they believe in all that is stated in the creeds, and ally themselves with traditional Christianity (what they call New Testament Christianity).

OT: In fact, if you are a Catholic who is having a dialogue with a Conference Baptist Christian, or any of the “New Testament Church” Protestants, keep bringing the conversation back to the concept that “The Catholic Church IS the New Testament Church”, and be prepared to prove it from the Bible (the New Testament). So much of the Book of Acts makes it obvious that the Church was practicing Catholic Christianity.

Back to Topic: The Evangelical/Fundamental/Pentecostal/Non-denominational Protestant churches generally do not consider themselves creedal, but many of them still list the Apostle’s Creed in their hymnals or somewhere in their Statement of Faith, and believe in the statements in this Creed. They just don’t say it weekly or teach it to their children.

IMO, this lack of teaching of the Creeds is one reason for apostacy (falling away, or becoming carnal) in the Protestant churches–the creeds are excellent apologetics and help Christians to not stray into heresies or false teachings. When Christians do not know their Creeds, it’s easy for them to get mixed up as to what the Bible teaches, and fall victim to a false teacher who twists the Scriptures. The Creeds keep us on track and help us to remember “Basic Christianity.”

 

[Ginger2]

I started a thread in the Protestant Forum which stated: "There are 200 Protestant churches: dont you think that it is too many?. And somebody said that there were 33 000 and that with Internet (I do not know what is that: Internet Churces?) it is growing at the rate of 200 a month.
As you guess, I have no intention of making wils claims. I am there to LEARN about Protestantis and they have taught me a lit. Now, the number is up and running, just click here and see

The 33,0000 is a myth that has been long ago disproven, yet people continue to perpeteruate it either. The original source also lists hundreds of Catholic Churches and as any Catholic will tell you, “That is false! There is only one Catholic Church.”

How many Christian churches does the Bible say Paul travelled to? Yet they were really all one in the same church, even tho the Bible identifies them by different names.

I agree 1210% with the Catholics in this forum, there is only One Universal Church, membership is not listed in some earthly catelogue, but the names of the children of God are written in the Book of Life and we are sealed in the blood of Jesus.

To answer your question, the Word of God tells us what is required:

“Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his [Jesus’] name, he gave the right to become children of God” (John 1:12, NIV)

To “believe in one’s name” meant more than just believing a man named Jesus lived and once walked the Earth. It means believing in everything he is. All this information is in the Holy Scriptures. Jesus said he is written about in the Law the Prophets and the Psalms. He also stated his purpose in the New Testament.

It is believed the Apostle’s penned the Roman Creed, which is a summary of what Jesus taught about himself.
All true Christians believe in the same basic doctrines which are found in the Holy Scriptures and summarized in the Apostle’s Creed:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth, Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
born of the Virgin Mary, Luk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name [was] Mary.
suffered under Pontius Pilate, Luke 23:16 I will therefore chastise him, and release [him[/COLOR]].
was crucified, Luk 23:23 And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. …24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.
died, Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
and was buried. Luk 23:52 This [man] went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
He descended into hell. Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Etc., etc., etc.,…

Everything we need to know is written in the Holy Scriptures

If you don’t believe what Christ Jesus taught about himself, then you are not really Christian, because this is what it means to be Christian. If I believe what Islam teaches, I am not Christian, if I believe what Buddhism teaches I am not Christian because they deny some or all of the basic tennants which define Christianity.

Just like abstaining from eating meat defines what being a vegetarian means.

 

[Izdaari]

btw - I’ve never met a non-Catholic who believes in any creeds. A creed is considered way “too Catholic” by the non-Catholics I’ve met.

Hmm., I guess you don’t know any Lutherans, Anglicans/Episcopalians or Presbyterians then. Creeds and confessions figure prominently into those denominations.

 

[AbideWithMe]

the question is quite confusing, Churches, Denominations, and so on but I want to study them for I want to know.

Listen to the basic argument: with the idea that each one may interpret the Scripture, the Protestant will splinter totally and in 500 years there will be no more Protestants or each person will be a Church.

Am I gla? NO, I am not glad, in the Protestant Forum I am asking, why do not accept the Pope’s authority I am defending a common ground, ecumenism and Unity, but with the principle of private interpretation you are rowing against the tide.

You are trying to unite also them in common grounds but I think it is a Catholic Thinking: Unity. I do not think they feel that way. Some have told me: “But why do we need unity?”

Dear Pfaffenhoffen—

Working for unity among all followers of Christ is indeed something we all should care about, as it is something Christ Himself prayed for.

Here where I live, in southeast Pennsylvania in the US, Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox alike are involved in talking together, getting to really know each other instead of clinging to stereotypes, trying to really listen to each other instead of making assumptions and imputing motives…and most of all, working together for our communities.

Here is the website for the conference of churches in my area:

readingberkschurches.org
And:readingberkschurches.org/Our_Story.php
From the last link—“We don’t go out alone; we go out together as the Body of Christ, side-by-side into a world that seeks answers to brokenness…”

If you really want to understand the climate among Protestants today, talk to someone who is standing out in the weather, experiencing it on a daily basis. From where I’m standing, as someone who has been involved in Protestant churches for over 40 years, and from the perspective of friends and relatives around the US, …YES, unity is important to us!

Here is more another link, about live58:
www.live58.org
“Live58 is a global initiative seeking to unite Christians to end extreme poverty in our lifetime by living the call of Isaiah 58…”

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

Hmm., I guess you don’t know any Lutherans, Anglicans/Episcopalians or Presbyterians then. Creeds and confessions figure prominently into those denominations.

No, I don’t think I’ve ever really met anyone from those churches. I know that Scott Hahn was a Presbyterian Pastor before he became Catholic. I have heard on the News that those churches accept actively homosexual practicing clergy, but I’d never heard of them having or believing in any creeds. Learn something new every day.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

This is so confusing to me. Is there not a lot in the bible that the Catholic religion does not follow? I’ve seen so many posts on this site that have listed biblical passages that are not adopted into the religion.
When I asked my uber-Catholic friend the other day about this, he said, “the Catholic rules are not all based on what you will find written in the bible…”
Confused.

The Catholic Church wrote the New Testament through the Holy Spirit. There is nothing in the Bible that contradicts the teachings of the Catholic Church. The Catholic teachings aren’t “based” on the Bible because the Catholic Church proceeded the New Testament, but there is not a single Catholic teaching that contradicts the Bible.

 

[ComeHome2Rome]

If you don’t believe what Christ Jesus taught about himself, then you are not really Christian, because this is what it means to be Christian.

You & I nearly 2,000 years later know what Christ Jesus taught about himself because the Catholic Church wrote the New Testament through the Holy Spirit, the Catholic Church compiled the Bible and the Catholic Church perserved the Bible through out all those centuries.

If you believe in the New Testament, then by default you believe in the authority of the Catholic Church.

Catholic Christians don’t just believe in the Bible, but also in the Catholic Church guided and protected by the Holy Spirit who wrote the New Testament. It is only the Catholic Church who can correctly interpret the Bible because Jesus gave the Holy Spirit to the Catholic Church to guide it in all Truth.

Anyone who wants to read the New Testament, should also want to be able to understand it correctly and people can only get that from the Catholic Church who wrote it, compiled it and preserved it through out the centuries.

To just accept the Bible without accepting the Catholic Church who wrote it would be like telling Jesus, “I’m learning about you from the book Your Bride wrote. I don’t want anything to do with Your Bride because I’ve got her book. I can get to know You Jesus by just reading the book she wrote. I don’t want to find out about you directly from Your Bride, the book she wrote is sufficient for me. Besides, what can your Bride tell me about you that she didn’t write in her book?” Think it over.

 

[Tony888]

I am inspired to ask this question after listening to Dr. Ray Guarendi speak.

**What are these “basics” that it’s claimed that all Protestants agree on?

Who determines what these “basics” are? **

I think your post presupposes too much.

While the catholics have central control with clarity on what is official doctrine, it is false to assume that all or even most believe all the doctrine.

 

[joe370]

Very well said. On the essentials we do agree. I find the 33,000 denominations claim played often when people can’t make an argument for their position and have to obfuscate. It adds nothing to the debate.

The concept of essentials vs non-essentials is found nowhere in scripture and if a SS proponent wants to prove the concept of the essentials vs non-essentials, are they not confined to scripture alone to do so?

 

[joe370]

This is so confusing to me. Is there not a lot in the bible that the Catholic religion does not follow? I’ve seen so many posts on this site that have listed biblical passages that are not adopted into the religion.
When I asked my uber-Catholic friend the other day about this, he said, “the Catholic rules are not all based on what you will find written in the bible…”
Confused.

Not at all. The only thing, believed by the CC, that is not explicitly taught in scripture is the assumption of Mary, but that’s OK because the CC defers to both scripture and tradition and of course the former is a product of the latter.

However, it is a problem for sola scriptura proponents who believe: if it is to be believed the doctrine or practice must be found within the pages of scripture, and the practice of sola scriptura can be found nowhere within those pages.

 

[AbideWithMe]

The concept of essentials vs non-essentials is found nowhere in scripture and if a SS proponent wants to prove the concept of the essentials vs non-essentials, are they not confined to scripture alone to do so?

Joe, I think Romans 14, for one example, addresses the concept of essentials vs. non-essentials.

 

[joe370]

I am inspired to ask this question after listening to Dr. Ray Guarendi speak.

**What are these “basics” that it’s claimed that all Protestants agree on?

Who determines what these “basics” are? **

Sadly, protestantism is not comprised of non-Catholics all belonging to the same ideological camp, so a consensus is difficult to pin down.

Jesus as our savior, is of course believed by all.

 

[joe370]

Hey Abide…

Joe, I think Romans 14, for one example, addresses the concept of essentials vs. non-essentials.

Let’s take a look:

*Accept the one whose faith is weak, without quarreling over disputable matters. 2 One person’s faith allows them to eat anything, but another, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister[a]? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”**

12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.**

I don’t see anything there on the essentials vs the non-essentials. For example some Christians believe that baptism is an essential doctrine while others do not. If the concept of essentials vs non-essentials is to be believed then scripture should specify that baptism is either an essential teaching or a non-essential teaching - right?*

 

[PRmerger]

The 33,0000 is a myth that has been long ago disproven, yet people continue to perpeteruate it either.

Fair enough.

What is, then, the correct number of Christian denominations? Please cite your source.

As I’ve stated quite often on this forum when Protestants get testy about the 33,000 statistic, I’d be happy to entertain a different number, provided someone can tell me what it is. So far no one has been able to provide an alternative number, with statistics to back them up.

 

[AmateurPianist]

Fair enough.

What is, then, the correct number of Christian denominations? Please cite your source.

As I’ve stated quite often on this forum when Protestants get testy about the 33,000 statistic, I’d be happy to entertain a different number, provided someone can tell me what it is. So far no one has been able to provide an alternative number, with statistics to back them up.

So because nobody knows the precise number of denominations that do exist, that gives you license to perpetujate a figure that has is false, dishonest, misleading, and slanderous.

And you wonder why many of us think your apologetics are a joke.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

The 33,0000 is a myth that has been long ago disproven, yet people continue to perpeteruate it either. The original source also lists hundreds of Catholic Churches and as any Catholic will tell you, “That is false! There is only one Catholic Church.”

How many Christian churches does the Bible say Paul travelled to? Yet they were really all one in the same church, even tho the Bible identifies them by different names.

I agree 1210% with the Catholics in this forum, there is only One Universal Church, membership is not listed in some earthly catelogue, but the names of the children of God are written in the Book of Life and we are sealed in the blood of Jesus.

To answer your question, the Word of God tells us what is required:

“Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his [Jesus’] name, he gave the right to become children of God” (John 1:12, NIV)

To “believe in one’s name” meant more than just believing a man named Jesus lived and once walked the Earth. It means believing in everything he is. All this information is in the Holy Scriptures. Jesus said he is written about in the Law the Prophets and the Psalms. He also stated his purpose in the New Testament.

It is believed the Apostle’s penned the Roman Creed, which is a summary of what Jesus taught about himself.
All true Christians believe in the same basic doctrines which are found in the Holy Scriptures and summarized in the Apostle’s Creed:
I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth, Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit, Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
born of the Virgin Mary, Luk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin’s name [was] Mary.
suffered under Pontius Pilate, Luke 23:16 I will therefore chastise him, and release [him[/COLOR]].
was crucified, Luk 23:23 And they were instant with loud voices, requiring that he might be crucified. …24 And Pilate gave sentence that it should be as they required.
died, Luk 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
and was buried. Luk 23:52 This [man] went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. 53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
He descended into hell. Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Etc., etc., etc.,…

Everything we need to know is written in the Holy Scriptures

If you don’t believe what Christ Jesus taught about himself, then you are not really Christian, because this is what it means to be Christian. If I believe what Islam teaches, I am not Christian, if I believe what Buddhism teaches I am not Christian because they deny some or all of the basic tennants which define Christianity.

Just like abstaining from eating meat defines what being a vegetarian means.

I dont think the Churches Paul visited and the case of the Proteestant churches is totally different and you know that.

Som Protestant say that there is only one Protestant church and the individulal Churches which divide into Denominations and Chapters.

I wont care if they are 33 000 or 1 million. I pity that there are so many. I thought they were 200!! It is sorry that in the name of God so manny divisions are done.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Dear Pfaffenhoffen—

Working for unity among all followers of Christ is indeed something we all should care about, as it is something Christ Himself prayed for.

Here where I live, in southeast Pennsylvania in the US, Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox alike are involved in talking together, getting to really know each other instead of clinging to stereotypes, trying to really listen to each other instead of making assumptions and imputing motives…and most of all, working together for our communities.

Here is the website for the conference of churches in my area:

readingberkschurches.org
And:readingberkschurches.org/Our_Story.php
From the last link—“We don’t go out alone; we go out together as the Body of Christ, side-by-side into a world that seeks answers to brokenness…”

If you really want to understand the climate among Protestants today, talk to someone who is standing out in the weather, experiencing it on a daily basis. From where I’m standing, as someone who has been involved in Protestant churches for over 40 years, and from the perspective of friends and relatives around the US, …YES, unity is important to us!

Here is more another link, about live58:
www.live58.org
“Live58 is a global initiative seeking to unite Christians to end extreme poverty in our lifetime by living the call of Isaiah 58…”

I say what I was told by a Protestat member: “I do not care for unity!”.
And for me it is quite a difficult task, as I see only a way: conversion or acceptance of the Pope. Acceptance of the Pope is difficult for Protestant Churches so I see only the personal conversions.

My opinion, I do not force anyonw to have the same opinio.

 

[Ginger2]

Fair enough.

What is, then, the correct number of Christian denominations? Please cite your source…

The source is Catholics on this Forum.

Yep, They insist Barrett (I think that was the name) is and accurate and true source of information and last year told me how fast the 33,000 number (originally 22,000, but Catholics arbitrarily up the number) is growing.

I did the math -according to Catholics - and this year your statistics claim approximately 175,000 Protestant denominations…

(Of course, but Protestant denominations you also include non-Christian religions and cults)

So, according to Barrett and Catholic math, there are currently over 2,178 Catholic denominations. (6,300 Orthodox denominations)

When you answer the question: Why so many Catholic denominations, you will also have my answer to your question? You will also have my answer!

And then after pondering this post, consider how silly this line of debate is and you will have the answer as to why we keep going round and round in circles in our discussions.

Ginger

 

[PRmerger]

So because nobody knows the precise number of denominations that do exist, that gives you license to perpetujate a figure that has is false, dishonest, misleading, and slanderous.

If you continue to get all huffy about a statistic that you just know is false, then, what’s the correct number of Protestant denominations. And how do you know this?

[SIGN]I would be happy to consider using the “correct” number of denominations, provided someone–anyone?–will tell me what the number is. (And, of course, provide the statistics which validate this number.)[/SIGN]

And you wonder why many of us think your apologetics are a joke.

Huh?

 

[PRmerger]

The source is Catholics on this Forum.

No, Ginger. No Catholic on this Forum has ever provided an alternate statistic.

Please give me the correct number of Protestant denominations, and I’d be happy to consider using this number. Of course, you must provide the statistics to back up your correct assessment.