Protestants: What are the "Basics" that all Non-Catholic Christians agree on? And who determines what the "basics" are?

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AbideWithMe said:
Dear Pfaffenhoffen—

Working for unity among all followers of Christ is indeed something we all should care about, as it is something Christ Himself prayed for.

Here where I live, in southeast Pennsylvania in the US, Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox alike are involved in talking together, getting to really know each other instead of clinging to stereotypes, trying to really listen to each other instead of making assumptions and imputing motives…and most of all, working together for our communities.

Here is the website for the conference of churches in my area:

readingberkschurches.org
And:readingberkschurches.org/Our_Story.php
From the last link—“We don’t go out alone; we go out together as the Body of Christ, side-by-side into a world that seeks answers to brokenness…”

If you really want to understand the climate among Protestants today, talk to someone who is standing out in the weather, experiencing it on a daily basis. From where I’m standing, as someone who has been involved in Protestant churches for over 40 years, and from the perspective of friends and relatives around the US, …YES, unity is important to us!

Here is more another link, about live58:
www.live58.org
“Live58 is a global initiative seeking to unite Christians to end extreme poverty in our lifetime by living the call of Isaiah 58…”
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Thanks for all the information. Good Luck for your work.
As you need more than luck, I keep you in my prayers.
 
Dear Pfaffenhoffen from Pfaffenhofen-an-der-Ilm----Thank you for the prayers; they are very much appreciated!
 
One phrase that can be used to describe what most Protestants believe is a declaration that is used in Catholic Ordinary Form masses all over the US and maybe even all over the world.

“Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.”

Now there are nuances and practices that fill in the gaps between the words in that sentence.

Some focus on charismatic gifts (Pentecostals), some are focused on the “opening up” of the word, aka great sermons (Baptists for example). Some believe there will be a rapture before the Second Coming. Some believe we ought to follow more of the old testament law (Second
Day Adventists), etc, etc.

As a Protestant, I may have not always agreed with some tenets of some churches, but I felt that we were all Christians and felt comfortable visiting most churches (excluding some of the more wackier ones).
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
The idea that the Protestant are plintering is given by the thousands of denomintions. One Protestant told me: “If you do not like the Pastor or the atmosphere you just change Church or create a new One”: I was dumbfounded.
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That person was being flippant. I do not know one Protestant who would say “just start a new one”! It happens, but never believe that changing churches doesn’t involve much prayer and soul searching and sometimes tears.

Don’t forget Protestants tend to be very involved in their church community, so leaving a church means leaving friends who are like family a lot of the time.

I grew up in a Baptist church. When I turned 21, I felt I needed a more charismatic spirituality so I started attending a non-denominational church, which was almost like a pentecostal church (speaking in tongues, prophecies, free worship, etx) . So I have gone the charismatic route, you charismatic Catholics :).

People at my old church were sad to see me go, but they understood I was still a Christian. In fact, some of them would visit that church when they had special programs. This is unity. We would visit other Protestant churches and we would have concerts sometimes where different church choirs would come and sing.

If I had become a Seventh Day Adventist, there would be some raised eyebrows because they worship on Saturdays. If I became a Jehovah Witness or Mormon, the church would be praying for my soul. I don’t know if JW’s or Mormons consider themselves Protestant.

But yes, there is unity in the Protestant church, especially among the Evangelicals/fundamentalists. I only have experience with the Evangelical and Pentecostal churches, so that is all I am qualified to speak about.

My deciding to leave took a lot of prayer. But I felt this is where God wanted me to be a that time because of some personal issues that later occurred in my marriage.

So Catholics, life is not how you think it is in the Protestant Churches.

What’s important to understand is that most Protestants see themselves as Christians first and foremost. So you can be part of a different denomination, but are all united in Christ. That is where the unity comes from.
 
Well said, TrueLight.

My dear Catholic brothers and sisters here, you know how you feel----annoyed perhaps to a degree that makes it hard for you to be open to what another person is saying----when a non-Catholic takes it upon themselves to “inform” you what Catholics believe, or what life as a Catholic “must” be like. None of us like presumptuous judgments made about important realities in our lives.

Now, if you can recognize that Protestants can make assumptions about your faith based on hearsay, half-understood information, and the deeply-running tendency that we all have to demonize and scapegoat those for aren’t “one of us”…do you then reflect upon the fact that you may well be doing the very same thing you find annoying when it is done to you?

After nearly a year of prayerful, open, continuing learning about Catholicism and Orthodoxy, at this point I still feel and think I need to stay where I am…but my efforts to learn and be open have been both helped and hindered by CAF and the attitude of some of its participants.
 
AbideWithMe said:
After nearly a year of prayerful, open, continuing learning about Catholicism and Orthodoxy, at this point I still feel and think I need to stay where I am…but my efforts to learn and be open have been both helped and hindered by CAF and the attitude of some of its participants.
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AbideWithMe.

Thanks for being open minded enough to study.

Don’t let individual CAF personalities get in the way. We can sometimes be so enthusiastic about our faith, we can be uncharitable (myself included) in our efforts to convince others.

Continue to pray for God’s will. He brought you to CAF for a reason and like God worked on St Augustine for years, subtly shaping his life to bring him to where he wanted him, he will do the same for you.

He did it with me.

By the way, I love Abide With Me. 🙂
 
I always wondered about that 33,000 figure. Especially since I probably could not think of 25. But what is a denomination? If that 33,000 includes the former pizza parlors and launromats which became a church then I can believe it.

Then. of course, what is exactly a Christian?

In the end, most Protestants I know are good Christian people who try to serve the Lord to the best of their ability… Kind of like most Catholics I know.
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
Thank you for providing the list of all the Catholic Rites!!!

The Roman Rite part of the Latin Rite, right?
Or is the Latin Rite those who only attend the Latin Masses?

I don’t have a site and am not sure if this information is accurate, but I have heard that there are two groups that consider themselves Catholic that are Not in communion with Rome currently: Old Catholics & SSPX. It looks like the SSPX may be in communion with Rome again soon with ex-communications recently lifted, but I haven’t heard anything at all lately about the Old Catholics.
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The term “Roman Catholic” was initially started as a slur against the Catholic Church. Latin Rite is the main branch of the Catholic Church, The term Catholic Church included all of the Eastern Orthodox in communion with the Holy See, located in Rome, more specifically, the Vatican. But the term took off and many Catholics have accepted the term, which I don’t, and run with it. It is not the official name of the Church. Hope that helps.
 
Ginger2 said:
The “basics” or as some call them, the “essential” doctrines are what the Holy Scriptures say we MUST believe to be saved.
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Would that include Baptism?
Ginger2 said:
OSAS is not real doctrine. It has simply been told so many times that even Protestants think it is.
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Right, MANY Protestants claim OSAS to be Scriptural truth, and adhere to it as such.
 
Ginger2 said:
:extrahappy: Whoo hooo! We agree on something :dancing: That’s me dancing in my house!
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Right, and we agree on plenty of other things as well, such as the Trinity, Heaven, Hell, etc., however, I would like to address my last post again:
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Ginger2:
The “basics” or as some call them, the “essential” doctrines are what the Holy Scriptures say we MUST believe to be saved.
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Would you say that includes Baptism?
 
PRmerger said:
You know, this comment has been on my mind all day today.

Even though I have known you since you were NotTooSmart (simmer down, folks, that’s AmateurPianist’s own unfortunate choice of a screenname originally), we’ve had very few interactions. In my >10,000 posts I doubt that even 1% of my comments were even addressed to you.

So I’m not sure what prompts such a rude comment.

I’m going to assume one of these things:
  • you’re having a bad day.
  • you’re confusing me with *another *poster whose “apologetics are a joke”.
  • you meant to say “your ‘statistics’ are a joke”.
  • you meant “you” as the royal “you”, and not “you” as in PRmerger.
If, however, the comment is meant that you actually find my apologetics to be laughable, then please address what apologetics I have offered that are ludicrous.
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I am finding that I am reacting strongly (probably too strongly) on these forums to posts that I consider slanderous. That is why I don’t post here that often.

And use of a figure that is known to be untrue just for its supposed rhetorical effect I consider to be slanderous.

I probably should have said something like “I consider Catholic apologetics that persist in claiming 30,000 Protestant denominations to be a joke”.

Anyway in response to…tell me how many denominations there are and I will stop using the 33,000 canard. Two things.

(1) In debate the burden of proof rests upon the person making the claim. If one claims there are 33,000 Protestant denominations, then the burden of proof rests upon the one making this claim.
(2) Catholics in this threads dispute the 33,000 figure. I have read Catholic sources that wish Catholics would stop bandying this figure around (probably can’t find them now). If serious Catholics are saying the use of the 33,000 figure is false, then it must be.
(3) In numbers it is not necessary to know what is a true amount to know a number is false. For example my town may have 2,000 residents at this time. It may have 3,000 residents at this time. I dunno. But I know my town does not have 33,000 residents. if I were to debate issues relating to my town with somebody who claimed there are 33,000 residents in it, I would laugh off their debate as not serious.

But for some reason I do find myself to be overly sensitive when I come here. Not a good thing which is why I try to refrain from debating.
 
AmateurPianist said:
I probably should have said something like “I consider Catholic apologetics that persist in claiming 30,000 Protestant denominations to be a joke”.
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Fair enough.

As I’ve stated, I feel that I am being overly generous in claiming that there are tens of thousands of Christian denominations.

There are tens of thousands of Christian denominations in my large metropolitan area alone. Each of these denominations disagreeing doctrinally with the other ones.

So you’ll have to forgive me for being bemused by the 30,000 statistic. In my opinion, that’s a kind and generous number being offered by Catholics.
 
PRmerger said:
.

There are tens of thousands of Christian denominations in my large metropolitan area alone. Each of these denominations disagreeing doctrinally with the other ones.
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Well first, I’m going to say hi, because I haven’t seen you post in a while. Unless you post where I don’t go.

Second, with all due respect, I feel fairly confident in saying it is impossible for you to have tens of thousands of Christian denominations in your city.

A group of 10 meeting in someone’s living room, does not a denomination make. 😃
 
TrueLight said:
Well first, I’m going to say hi, because I haven’t seen you post in a while. Unless you post where I don’t go.

Second, with all due respect, I feel fairly confident in saying it is impossible for you to have tens of thousands of Christian denominations in your city.

A group of 10 meeting in someone’s living room, does not a denomination make. 😃
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Well, hiya!

As far as your assertion, that’s fine.

Again, I’ll certainly entertain another number of Christian denominations.

Will 5000 be an acceptable number?
 
PRmerger said:
Well, hiya!

As far as your assertion, that’s fine.

Again, I’ll certainly entertain another number of Christian denominations.

Will 5000 be an acceptable number?
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I just took a quick look and already I see some things:

Might not all the below be grouped under “African Apostolic Church?”.
African Apostolic Church of Johane Maranke
African Apostolic Church of Johane Masowe
African Apostolic Church of Nigeria & Benin
African Apostolic Church St Simon & St Johane

How about **Apostolic Faith Mission Churches **for the below?
Apostolic Faith Mission
Apostolic Faith Mission Church of God
Apostolic Faith Mission of Africa
Apostolic Faith Mission of Canada
Apostolic Faith Mission of Malawi
Apostolic Faith Mission of S Africa
Apostolic Faith Mission of SAfrica
Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa
Apostolic Faith Mission of Zambia

**Assemblies of God is one denomination. **
Assemblies of God (Apostolic Ch)
Assemblies of God (Assyrian)
Assemblies of God (Back to God)
Assemblies of God (Filadelfia)
Assemblies of God (North & South India)
Assemblies of God (Spanish)
Assemblies of God in Australia
Assemblies of God in Botswana
Assemblies of God in Egypt
Assemblies of God in GB & Ireland
Assemblies of God in Ghana
Assemblies of God in Guyana
Assemblies of God in Lesotho
Assemblies of God in Malawi
Assemblies of God in New Zealand
Assemblies of God in Nigeria
Assemblies of God in S & Central Africa
Assemblies of God in Samoa
Assemblies of God in Sri Lanka
Assemblies of God in the Bahamas
Assemblies of God in Viet Nam
Assemblies of God in Zimbabwe
Assemblies of God International
Assemblies of God of Fiji
Assemblies of God of Myanmar
Assemblies of God of Tonga
Assemblies of God USA

Do you see what I’m saying?
 
TrueLight said:
Well first, I’m going to say hi, because I haven’t seen you post in a while. Unless you post where I don’t go.

Second, with all due respect, I feel fairly confident in saying it is impossible for you to have tens of thousands of Christian denominations in your city.

A group of 10 meeting in someone’s living room, does not a denomination make. 😃
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I think the more urgent question is:

Which non-catholic church today, in a world with so many of them, can rightfully claim to be true reformed church established by God, just as the catholic church, in my opinion, can rightfully claim to be the church established by God almost 2000 years ago?

And of course when was that one reformed church established by God?
 
ComeHome2Rome said:
I am inspired to ask this question after listening to Dr. Ray Guarendi speak.

**

Who determines what these “basics” are? **
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It must be scripture via private judgment if in fact scripture is the final authority for sola scriptura proponents.
 
joe370 said:
I think the more urgent question is:

Which non-catholic church today, in a world with so many of them, can rightfully claim to be true reformed church established by God, just as the catholic church, in my opinion, can rightfully claim to be the church established by God almost 2000 years ago?

And of course when was that one reformed church established by God?
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As a Baptist I never said, the Baptist Church is the true church established by God. For me, the true Church of God was the body of believers, which included Baptists, Pentecostals, Non-denominational, etc etc. But not Catholics. 😃
 
As pointed out, the “30,000 denominations” thing is somewhat of a myth. It comes from the World Christian Encyclopedia, but many of these “denominations” are just individual Churches that serve a specific ethnic or cultural group (eg. Korean Baptists). And “Denomination”, as they define it, also can only exist within a specific country.

The same article also goes on to state that there are also “300 major ecclesiastical traditions”, in six major “Blocs”. The Six Blocs are Roman Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, Independents, Pentecostals, Marginals, and Anglicans. I think the key here is the Six Blocs.
 
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