Protestants: What would Christianity look like if the Catholic Church were to disappear tomorrow?

[clmowry]

I used to know some Franciscans who did not believe alot of things that are considered official teaching. One even called himself a Protestant yet he belonged to a Catholic Order. The Church is divided between the progressives and the reactionaries, both argue that they are right and neither will be leaving anytime soon.

LOL.

Progressives and the reactionaries. So those are the terms we are using for the opposing views now.

Gotta love it.

I guess those terms are so much less judgemental than “heterodox” and “orthodox”.

Chuck

 

[Dcngman]

Did you all forget about the Orthodoxy Church? If the Roman Catholic Church were to disappear tomorrow; then East would take its (Rome’s) place in the West. I say this as a former “Born Again” Charismatic Protestant who respects and honors Rome; but who has found his way in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

 

[clmowry]

Did you all forget about the Orthodoxy Church? If the Roman Catholic Church were to disappear tomorrow; then East would take its (Rome’s) place in the West. I say this as a former “Born Again” Charismatic Protestant who respects and honors Rome; but who has found his way in the Eastern Orthodox Church.

Good point, better toss them out too. Might need to get rid of conservative Anglicans as well.

Chuck

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

LOL.

Progressives and the reactionaries. So those are the terms we are using for the opposing views now.

Gotta love it.

I guess those terms are so much less judgemental than “heterodox” and “orthodox”.

Chuck

Do any of us really know what is truly Orthodox, I mean none of were around to hear what Jesus taught. I personally think Jesus was an Apocalyptic Prophet who thought the world would end soon. There were many competing Christian religions in the first century, what we call traditional Christianity just happened to win.

 

[clmowry]

Do any of us really know what is truly Orthodox, I mean none of were around to hear what Jesus taught. I personally think Jesus was an Apocalyptic Prophet who thought the world would end soon. There were many competing Christian religions in the first century, what we call traditional Christianity just happened to win.

Well that’s deffinitely a progressive thought. Certainly not Catholic, well not even Christian, but definitely progressive.

Chuck

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

Well that’s deffinitely a progressive thought. Certainly not Catholic, well not even Christian, but definitely progressive.

Chuck

It is an honest answer and being honest is a Christian value, right? None of us know what Jesus really said because we were not there. The oldest Christian teachings we have are in scripture but we don’t even have the original copies, how do you know they were not changed? The Church can claim to be apostolic but there is no Bishop who is 2,000 years old so none of them are real apostles handing on the teachings of Jesus. We have what is now called Traditional Christianity and we could call that Orthodox because in a sense it is, but all we really have is a religious tradition that has evolved over the years.

 

[Randy_Carson]

There has been “chaos” in the Catholic Church for a long time. The majority of Catholics do not believe or follow everything that Rome teaches.

That’s funny…neither do most Protestants.

Does their denial of Catholic doctrine constitute chaos?

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

That’s funny…neither do most Protestants.

Does their denial of Catholic doctrine constitute chaos?

I think it is healthy when Catholics question official Church teaching. When I read posts of people agonizing over things like birth control, confession, is this or that a sin, I feel bad for them because I know how official Catholicism can keep people in an infantile state where they are scared to think for themselves.

 

[guanophore]

Would it be powerful or insignificant?

If you really want a good showing, you should post this over in Non-Catholic. Most of the Protestants never come over here.

It would also be interesting to make it a poll!

 

[clmowry]

It is an honest answer and being honest is a Christian value, right? None of us know what Jesus really said because we were not there. The oldest Christian teachings we have are in scripture but we don’t even have the original copies, how do you know they were not changed? The Church can claim to be apostolic but there is no Bishop who is 2,000 years old so none of them are real apostles handing on the teachings of Jesus. We have what is now called Traditional Christianity and we could call that Orthodox because in a sense it is, but all we really have is a religious tradition that has evolved over the years.

Sure honesty is a Christian value but being honest doesn’t make one Christian, or Catholic, or even correct.

You can be an honest progressive secular humanist or you can be an honest Catholic.

You seem to have fallen into the progressive fallacy that something cannot be the “truth” unless you can “know” it with certainty.

Once you embrace this philosophy you can quickly head down the path that tells you that the only real “truth” is that: truth is whatever you’d like it to be and my truth is just as good as anybody elses truth, even if we have diametrically opposed postions.

Well unless of course my “truth” is to claim that there actually is “THE TRUTH”.

Now I’m pretty sure that’s only progressive heresy.

Chuck

 

[Love_is_Patient]

I think it is healthy when Catholics question official Church teaching. When I read posts of people agonizing over things like birth control, confession, is this or that a sin, I feel bad for them because I know how official Catholicism can keep people in an infantile state where they are scared to think for themselves.

Right. Because “progressives” are clearly thinking for themselves as they parrot modernism.

It’s healthy to question if by question you mean “faith seeking understanding.” Far too often, it’s instead a case of “unbelief seeking justification to remain in unbelief.”

Love is Patient

 

[JRKH]

There has been “chaos” in the Catholic Church for a long time. The majority of Catholics do not believe or follow everything that Rome teaches.

The majority of Americans do not agree with all of the Laws of the Land either. I would say most speed on the highways and break otherlaws in minor ways, while some even go so far as to Cheat on Income tax and so forth. Has such disbelief and “sinfullness” in the “civil” sector resulted in “chaos”?

The sinful ways of individual catholics likewise does not equal “Chaos” in the Church.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

I think it is healthy when Catholics question official Church teaching. When I read posts of people agonizing over things like birth control, confession, is this or that a sin, I feel bad for them because I know how official Catholicism can keep people in an infantile state where they are scared to think for themselves.

In part I understand what you are saying here, but in actuality it is the people themselves who are keeping themselves in the “infantile state” and not the Church. The Church keeps trying to help and to clarify things.

I too read posts here lwhere people are agonizing over whether this or that is a sin. I find that in most cases it is because they are looking at the actions rather than the intents, and/or looking for some sort of loophole to get around or skirt by some sin or other.

In fact, this tendency of people to ask, “Yea - But what if…”, is the very reason we have such complicated “rules” and explanations of rules etc.

Love God,
Love Neighbor as self,
Seek After the kingdom,
Do the Will of the Father,
Love each other as Christ Loves us.

Simple rules. And very Church rule, and every Church explanation of a rule or rules goes back to these rules of Love. Yet, no matter how many words are generated in clarification, someone is going to say, “Yea - But what if…”.

Peace
James

 

[Anna_Scott]

In part I understand what you are saying here, but in actuality it is the people themselves who are keeping themselves in the “infantile state” and not the Church. The Church keeps trying to help and to clarify things.

I too read posts here lwhere people are agonizing over whether this or that is a sin. I find that in most cases it is because they are looking at the actions rather than the intents, and/or looking for some sort of loophole to get around or skirt by some sin or other.

In fact, this tendency of people to ask, “Yea - But what if…”, is the very reason we have such complicated “rules” and explanations of rules etc.

Love God,
Love Neighbor as self,
Seek After the kingdom,
Do the Will of the Father,
Love each other as Christ Loves us.

Simple rules. And very Church rule, and every Church explanation of a rule or rules goes back to these rules of Love. Yet, no matter how many words are generated in clarification, someone is going to say, “Yea - But what if…”.

Peace
James

James,

The “what if” can really get to a person. I think sometimes, as Christians, we forget how to live in the moment—we are either feeling guilty about the past, or worrying about the future. Both are exhausting and take the energy we could use to serve one another. I learned this in the “school of hard knocks.” It is also Biblical.

I often end up learning things in the most painful way possible, when I should have turned to God and His Word, in the first place. Oh, the things we do to ourselves.

Anna

 

[JustaServant]

In the movie, The Pelican Brief, starring Denzel Washington and Julia Roberts, there is a scene in which someone is assasinated in a crowded plaza. After the sound of the gunshot, panic ensues with people wildly running in all directions until the camera pulls back to reveal a large empty concourse with a single body lying in a pool of blood.

That’s what Christianity would look like without the Catholic Church.

Amazing…three pages and only Randy answers the OP.

If there were no Catholic Church, and caos ensued, what would that look like? If the Church’s influence in the world would be no more, who would:
Build hospitials and take care of the sick and infirmed?
Stand up for pro-life issues?
Stand up for moral issues?
In a world rapidly heading back to barbarism, the Church stands, many times alone in the face of opposition world-wide.
Robert E Howard wrote once: ‘Barbarism is the natural state of man, civilization is unnatural’.
The Church civilized a pagan world, brought order to it. Without that order it falls into caos.

 

[Vimy_Ridge]

You seem to have fallen into the progressive fallacy that something cannot be the “truth” unless you can “know” it with certainty.

Once you embrace this philosophy you can quickly head down the path that tells you that the only real “truth” is that: truth is whatever you’d like it to be and my truth is just as good as anybody elses truth, even if we have diametrically opposed postions.

There are two kinds of truth. One is the kind where you can verify if something is in accord with a claim, if someone tells you that there is lion in your bedroom you can check for yourself. Now the other kind of truth is philisophical and that really is a matter of opinion. Religion and philosophy are a lot alike accept for the fact that some religions insist that you must take their supposedly historical and unverifiable stories as true along with the philosophy of the religion.

I think Catholicism/Christianity can only survive as a philosophy now, a philosophy that counters the worldy philosophy that holds wealth and power as the highest value. So to answer the OP I would say that it does not matter if the Vatican/Official Catholicism fades away because the heart of the Catholic Faith (an altruistic philosophy) will continue on.

In part I understand what you are saying here, but in actuality it is the people themselves who are keeping themselves in the “infantile state” and not the Church. The Church keeps trying to help and to clarify things.

Has it ever struck you as odd to see an elderly person call a priest half their age “Father” or how about going into a room to tell the priest all the naughty things you have done?

When the Church tries to clarify it often sounds like they are desperately trying to make sense out of things that don’t make sense, the teachings on birth control are a good example. The Church came very close to changing this teaching but did not because they would have to admit they made a mistake and are not infalliable.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Would it be powerful or insignificant?

It would be a desert with nothing but mirages, and no real oasis.

 

[JonNC]

Would it be powerful or insignificant?

Sometimes extreme hypotheticals serve no real or productive value. This is an extreme hypothetical. I will say, however, that, say what we will about Rome, there is a stability it provides to Christianity. While the Orthodox share the pre-schism undivided Church, Protestants are of the western Church, and our identities are link in many ways to Rome.

Jon

 

[wmscott]

There has been “chaos” in the Catholic Church for a long time. The majority of Catholics do not believe or follow everything that Rome teaches.

Chaos is man made and perpetuated by man. Catholicism, the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church, the Pillar of truth, Christs body here on earth, the Church Christ established, there is no chaos. For Christ is perfect and brings order to chaos. this is just my opinion.

 

[JonNC]

It would still be here and better that ever

And Luther probably said the same thing about anabaptists, and Zwinglians.

Jon