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Memaw
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That was a cop-out. They were speaking for themselves. God Bless, Memaw
Protestants: What would Christianity look like if the Catholic Church were to disappear tomorrow?
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Memaw
Guest
The Reformers came up with it huh, well that explains it. Also, How can the Truth be “less clear” in a different communion? The Truth is the Truth forever, everywhere. Archbishop Sheen said. The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it and a lie is still a lie even if everybody believes it."God Bless, MemawIt’s a very, very old term. Batman did not come up with it. It was the preferred term that the Reformers used when taking about the entire church - so as not to exclude those in Rome, or Constantinople, or anywhere else (and I’m sure it was used well before then). Lutherans, at least, have always recognized that the church exists wherever the Word is preached and Sacraments rightly administered (even if we think the Truth is less clear in a different communion).
In my mind, this is why it would be a severe blow to the faith if Christendom lost its largest and wealthiest component. Then again, that might only serve to strengthen the ecumenical ties between other groups - Christianity has a habit of doing well under persecution (the Gospel tends to have that ‘hopeful’ effect!). Perhaps Christians would, necessarily, band together, as they already do in areas of the globe that see those of the Faith persecuted. But the fact remains; 1.2 billion less Christians is a hypothetical I’d rather not imagine.
God bless Memaw. And everyone else, too.
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JustaServant
Guest
Bold mine.It’s a very, very old term. Batman did not come up with it. It was the preferred term that the Reformers used when taking about the entire church - so as not to exclude those in Rome, or Constantinople, or anywhere else (and I’m sure it was used well before then). Lutherans, at least, have always recognized that the church exists wherever the Word is preached and Sacraments rightly administered (even if we think the Truth is less clear in a different communion).
In my mind, this is why it would be a severe blow to the faith if Christendom lost its largest and wealthiest component. Then again,** that might only serve to strengthen the ecumenical ties between other groups - Christianity has a habit of doing well under persecution (the Gospel tends to have that ‘hopeful’ effect!**
God bless Memaw. And everyone else, too.
Ahhh, someone finally gave a positive answer.
Hypothetical as the OP is, I wanted to see if four years later, anyone (especially Protestants) could look beyond the “Ding Dong the Witch is Dead” view
, to what opportunity would present itself.The answer is unity.
All Christians desire unity. No matter which side of the Tiber you’re on.
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jmcrae
Guest
If “everything Catholic” vanishes from the earth, that would include the New Testament, along with the printing press, and the Bodoni typeface.That would be a negative. The Bible is almost everywhere. If the Roman Catholic Church were to suddenly vanish, the Bible would still be around. The Gospel would still be preached.
Together with every kind of art, as I mentioned before, except for landscape and abstract art, and a great deal of music, including some really bad guitar stuff.
As pointed out previously, if the Catholic Church had not been present to defend Europe in the Middle Ages, it would be gone, as well - and since it was Roman Catholic missionaries who brought Roman technology to Northern Europe, the northern tribes would probably still be trying to figure out that “wheel” thingy.
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batman1973
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The question posited was what would Christianity look like if the Roman Catholic Church disappeared “tomorrow”. That being said, if the Roman Church vanished, nothing would change except the number of Christians being decreased. The hubris of the Roman Catholics amazes me.If “everything Catholic” vanishes from the earth, that would include the New Testament, along with the printing press, and the Bodoni typeface.
Together with every kind of art, as I mentioned before, except for landscape and abstract art, and a great deal of music, including some really bad guitar stuff.
As pointed out previously, if the Catholic Church had not been present to defend Europe in the Middle Ages, it would be gone, as well - and since it was Roman Catholic missionaries who brought Roman technology to Northern Europe, the northern tribes would probably still be trying to figure out that “wheel” thingy.
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concretecamper
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Go back and read the question…it was not Roman Catholic…but just Catholic. I suspect the OP did not mean Lutherans who say they are the Catholic Church. Without the Catholic Church there would be no Sacrifice of the Mass. And I believe what St Pio said about the Mass. The world would cease to exist. And yes…I am proud of Christ’s Church…not arrogant but proud!
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batman1973
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Well, since the poster is a Roman Catholic, and most Roman Catholics feel they own the term “Catholic” I will make the assumption (yes, I realize that’s not always a good thing) that it’s the Church of Rome the OP is refering to. To counter your claim, There will absolutely be a sacrifice of the mass. Lutherans and any other church that believes in the real Presence do it. Like I said, if the RCC were to vanish, NOTHING will change. I’m sorry if your pride won’t accept that.
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concretecamper
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Belief does not beget reality…sorry.
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batman1973
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That is 100% correct. Which is why I am dealing in reality. I could care less is the Roman Catholic church thinks mine is invalid. The belief they have in that is not the reality. My church practices the old faith and traditions. We maintain that we are a valid continuation of the Western Church. If your church can’t accept that, it’s okay. Evangelical Catholicism will continue to do the Lord’s Work of proclaiming the Gospel until the Lord returns again, with or without our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters.
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concretecamper
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Talk about hubris…
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NovusAugustus
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In fact if the Catholic Church were to disappear then all of the apostles’ successors would disappear, so it is indeed true that no Real Presence would continue. The Catholic Church includes all of those who belong to Churches headed by bishops with valid orders. These include some of the Lutherans, a few of the Anglicans (by virtue of the “dutch touch”), the Old Catholics, the PNCC, the Orthodox, and the Oriental Orthodox. Despite being disobedient and out of line, they are all still Catholic and so they would disappear in the OP’s hypothetical.
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Memaw
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The self-confidence of the Roman Catholic Church amazes me too but for a whole lot of different reasons than yours I’m sure. Learn more about it, you might just be “Surprised by TRUTH”, as Patrick Madrid so graciously puts it in his book by that title. God Bless, Memaw
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jmcrae
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But having rejected the authority that makes it possible, they cannot actually do it, no matter how sincerely they believe they are doing it.
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batman1973
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the exact same thing could be said about the Roman Catholic Church. I don’t lose any sleep because your church doesn’t think my church is invalid. It only matters to God and I know that He sees my church as valid.
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concretecamper
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???
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Memaw
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How can you be sure about that??? Do you have TRUE Apostolic Succession?? That’s what it takes. Jesus said, “I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE.” He promised to be with HIS Church, the one HE founded on Peter, (the only one on earth for 1,500 years before the Protestant Reformation) till the END of Time. Have you ever had a Eucharistic Miracle happen with your hosts??? God Bless, Memaw
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Eric_Hilbert
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Stop the snarkiness and discuss with charity.
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4Squarebaby
Guest
Never existed?
Seeing that Islam spread even with the death of their prophet and figurehead their would have been some sort of church. But European and world history would be much different. Would Lutheran and Anglican Churches exist? Would they be part of the German and British Orthodox Churches?
Should the church “disappear” today. Well that depends upon the definition of disappear. The claims made become no different from most denominations or the churches stand empty and there are neat piles of clothing with a crucifix on top of them In the first case there would no longer be a human figurehead for media attention. There would be a lessor protestant high church versus low church divide compared to Protestant versus Catholic. Meanwhile the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses go around saying that they are the true fulfillment of faith. Meanwhile Seventh Day Adventist would push their efforts that now is the time to honor the Sabbath.
Seeing that Islam spread even with the death of their prophet and figurehead their would have been some sort of church. But European and world history would be much different. Would Lutheran and Anglican Churches exist? Would they be part of the German and British Orthodox Churches?
Should the church “disappear” today. Well that depends upon the definition of disappear. The claims made become no different from most denominations or the churches stand empty and there are neat piles of clothing with a crucifix on top of them
In the first case there would no longer be a human figurehead for media attention. There would be a lessor protestant high church versus low church divide compared to Protestant versus Catholic. Meanwhile the Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses go around saying that they are the true fulfillment of faith. Meanwhile Seventh Day Adventist would push their efforts that now is the time to honor the Sabbath.
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VanSensei
Guest
If the Catholic Church disappeared tomorrow, a bunch of people with no church to go to would probably start a new one with their own way of doing things, and their own way of apostolic succession. It would be great for the Catholics who somehow still support women’s ordination.
Or evangelical, fire-and-brimstone Acts 2:38-39-kind of preaching would shine and undergo a massive revival. Probably both.
Or evangelical, fire-and-brimstone Acts 2:38-39-kind of preaching would shine and undergo a massive revival. Probably both.
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jmcrae
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Not with any credibility. The line of succession continues, unbroken.
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