Protestants Whats wrong with this prayer? = Rosary

[ChristianWAB]

Zooey:

Dead?? Dead???
Mary & all the saints– dead???
They are not dead!! They are alive, gloriously alive!! The saints are:yup: more alive than you & I can dream of!
Mary is alive in Heaven; & in Heaven, there is real life…not this poor shadow of life that we live here, constrained by mortal woes. She has life eternal, & that life does not end in death, as mortal life will; she is alive; alive & with our Lord, forever & ever more!!:yup:

God bless.

Though I’d say it’s a safe assumption, only God knows if she has eternal life. I am human and therefore do not have access to that information.

 

[ChristianWAB]

Eireann:

Oh and they aren’t dead, if so how is it that Moses spoke with Jesus ?

I’m not Jesus. Neither are you. I daresay Jesus can do pretty much anything He chooses.

 

[Eireann]

ChristianWAB:

I’m not Jesus. Neither are you. I daresay Jesus can do pretty much anything He chooses.

Doesn’t alter the fact that He did talk to people that were dead in some peoples eyes.

We could use that "oh I’m not Jesus " argument in loads of situations.

 

[Church_Militant]

When it gets right down to it…I really could care less what any non-Catholic thinks about praying the Rosary because I prayed in n-C churches and services and they don’t hold a candle to the Rosary (or the Mass), but when it comes to focusing on Our Lord and His life the Rosary buries all other forms of prayer that I’ve tried. The prayers of the rosary are beautiful and uplifting in ways that no other prayers seem to compare.

I probably can’t express it very well, but when I pray my Rosary, I know that God is there and listening.

There’s a great little book out called My Scriptural Rosary by Tom Rutkoski that I don’t think anyone could find fault with. (Then again I could be wrong about that. LOL! I’ve been wrong a couple of times before! ). Anyway, I highly recommend it.
Pax vobiscum,

 

[Church_Militant]

ChristianWAB:

I’m not Jesus. Neither are you. I daresay Jesus can do pretty much anything He chooses.

Or command his people to anything He chooses. Like John 6…but that’s another topic alltogether.

 

[Myangel]

I downloaded the mysteries a long time ago (for the life of me I cant remember where) and here is what part of it says in the 5th Glorious Mystery:

Jesus took Mary by the hand and led her to to the throne prepared for her “Sit here My Mother, this throne is yours, I have prepared it for you. It is here that you will rule with Me for all eternity, it is here that you will intercede for the world and I will hear whatever you say for I love you and I wish to honour you”. Mary said to Jesus “I pray that soon Your apostles, Your diciples and all Your people will be here with us to praise You, to love You for all eternity”. Jesus said to Mary “Yes my Mother I will give you whatever you heart desires and from now on all men that acknowledge Me as their King must also acknowledge you as their Queen and Mother”.

I was taught that Mary would be the one to crush the devils head at the end of time, and boy the devil is having a dandy old time convincing some that Mary is nothing more than a vessel!

How sad :crying:

Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us Sinners!

 

[Milliardo]

ChristianWAB:

As for the Hail Mary being a biblical prayer, it’s not. I’ve read the Bible and it’s not in there as a prayer that either Jesus or anybody else ever taught.

It is based on many Bible passages though, even the term “mother of God”, which is a reference to Luke 1:43. Many Protestant prayers aren’t taught by Jesus either; does anybody harp around as saying they’re not Biblical prayers?

 

[Milliardo]

ChristianWAB:

Though I’d say it’s a safe assumption, only God knows if she has eternal life. I am human and therefore do not have access to that information.

John 11:25-26. Jesus made a promise, and it would be highly doubtful that He would not include His mother in that promise.

 

[josephdavid]

God Desires and Responds to Our Subordinate Mediation / Intercessory Prayer

1 Tim 2:1-2 - because Jesus Christ is the one mediator between God and man (1 Tim. 2:5), many Protestants deny the Catholic belief that the saints on earth and in heaven can mediate on our behalf. But before Paul’s teaching about Jesus as the “one mediator,” Paul urges supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people. Paul is thus appealing for mediation from others besides Christ, the one mediator. Why?

1 Tim 2:3 - because this subordinate mediation is good and acceptable to God our Savior. Because God is our Father and we are His children, God invites us to participate in Christ’s role as mediator.

1 Tim. 2:5 - therefore, although Jesus Christ is the sole mediator between God and man, there are many intercessors (subordinate mediators).

1 Cor. 3:9 - God invites us to participate in Christ’s work because we are God’s “fellow workers” and one family in the body of Christ. God wants His children to participate. The phrase used to describe “fellow workers” is “sunergoi,” which literally means synergists, or cooperators with God in salvific matters. Does God need fellow workers? Of course not, but this shows how much He, as Father, loves His children. God wants us to work with Him.

Mark 16:20 - this is another example of how the Lord “worked with them” (“sunergountos”). God cooperates with us. Out of His eternal love, He invites our participation.

Rom. 8:28 - God “works for good with” (the Greek is “sunergei eis agathon”) those who love Him. We work as subordinate mediators.

2 Cor. 6:1 - “working together” (the Greek is “sunergountes”) with him, don’t accept His grace in vain. God allows us to participate in His work, not because He needs our help, but because He loves us and wants to exalt us in His Son. It is like the father who lets his child join him in carrying the groceries in the house. The father does not need help, but he invites the child to assist to raise up the child in dignity and love.

Heb. 12:1 - the “cloud of witnesses” (nephos marturon) that we are surrounded by is a great amphitheatre of witnesses to the earthly race, and they actively participate and cheer us (the runners) on, in our race to salvation.

1 Peter 2:5 - we are a holy priesthood, instructed to offer spiritual sacrifices to God. We are therefore subordinate priests to the Head Priest, but we are still priests who participate in Christ’s work of redemption.

Rev. 1:6, 5:10 - Jesus made us a kingdom of priests for God. Priests intercede through Christ on behalf of God’s people.

James 5:16; Proverbs 15:8, 29 - the prayers of the righteous (the saints) have powerful effects. This is why we ask for their prayers. How much more powerful are the saints’ prayers in heaven, in whom righteousness has been perfected.

1 Tim 2:5-6 - therefore, it is because Jesus Christ is the one mediator before God that we can be subordinate mediators. Jesus is the reason. The Catholic position thus gives Jesus the most glory. He does it all but loves us so much He desires our participation.

 

[Huguenot]

Texan in DC:

I would like to know from our fundamental friends what is wrong with these words that we say in the Rosary, we open it with the Lords Prayer or Our Father, we recite the Hail Mary’s while we meditate on the life of Jesus and Mary, we close with the Glory be, and the Mother of our Lord asked us to pray the O my Jesus prayer afer each decade at Fatima.

Our Father

Our Father, who art in Heaven; Hallowed be Thy name; Thy kingdom come; Thy will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Amen.

Hail Mary

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

Glory be to the Father

Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

After each decade say the following prayer requested by the Blessed Virgin Mary at Fatima:

“O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who have most need of your mercy.”

For me the problem is the fact of addressing prayers to “somebody” else than God, namely Mary ; whether it is done with or without a rosary doesn’t make any difference …

 

[Aaron_I]

Huguenot:

For me the problem is the fact of addressing prayers to “somebody” else than God, namely Mary ; whether it is done with or without a rosary doesn’t make any difference …

When we pray to saints, we are not worshipping them. We are asking them to pray for us. Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you? It’s the same thing except that praying to saints is more effective because they are closer to God. Also they are outside of time, so they can pray for you an infinite amount of times.

 

[Huguenot]

Aaron I.:

When we pray to saints, we are not worshipping them. We are asking them to pray for us. Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you? It’s the same thing except that praying to saints is more effective because they are closer to God. Also they are outside of time, so they can pray for you an infinite amount of times.

Of course I have asked friends to pray for me, and I pray for them, but for me it’s not the same at all, the “saints” are not with us any more …
and maybe American Catholics are different from French ones : in France, many of them actually ASK them to do things for them, not to “pray” for them ; maybe it doesn’t correspond to the official teachings of the RCC but it is what they “show” us …
and another thing that “disturbs” me in the Rosary is the fact or “repeating” prayers, even the Lord’s Prayer …

 

[Mickey]

Huguenot:

Of course I have asked friends to pray for me, and I pray for them, but for me it’s not the same at all, the “saints” are not with us any more …

They are more alive than us. They are alive in Christ!

Huguenot:

and maybe American Catholics are different from French ones : in France, many of them actually ASK them to do things for them, not to “pray” for them ;…

What do you mean? In America we ask them to pray for us.

Huguenot:

and another thing that “disturbs” me in the Rosary is the fact or “repeating” prayers, even the Lord’s Prayer …

It does not matter how many times you say the Lord’s prayer. It is meaningful each time you say it if you are attentive to what you are saying. Consider the prayers spoken of in Revelation 4:8 offered day and night without ceasing: “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”

 

[Huguenot]

Mickey:

They are more alive than us. They are alive in Christ!

What do you mean? In America we ask them to pray for us.

It does not matter how many times you say the Lord’s prayer. It is meaningful each time you say it if you are attentive to what you are saying. Consider the prayers spoken of in Revelation 4:8 offered day and night without ceasing: “Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!”

But if you repeat the Lord’s Prayer I don’t know how many times, I’m not sure it is possible to concentrate on what you say ; at least, I couldn’t, so I prefer avoiding doing so …
What I said about French Catholics is exactly what THEY told me : that they ask the saints to DO THINGS for them, some even pray a particular saint when they have lost something, for instance, and they think that their prayer will be more efficient than if they address it to him instead of addressing it to God …
Even if it doesn’t correspond to the official teachings of the Catholic Church, it is the “message” they transmit to us …

 

[st.jerome]

bene7:

Elizabeth was referring to the man-child Mary had miracuously conceived in her womb.Sorry, but no creature, human or angelic, can operate with the divine attribute of omniscience. Angels can no more hear the prayers of men on earth than a “saint” can in the presence of the Lord. A creature is a creature, whether in physical form or in spirit. And like I said, you have no Divine revelation to back up your assertion that “God allows it.” Anyway, for Got to “allow it,” would assume the creature possesses the divine attribute. They simply don’t. It’s one of the attributes that separates the Creator from the creature. Omniscience is called an incommumicable attribute.

Blessings,
Bene

This is not completely true. Angels, spiritual creatures, do not share the omniscience and omnipotence of God, nonetheless they do not share the limitations of fleshy creatures. Being pure spirit, they are “mindful” beings that would have no problem hearing prayers. Angel means “messenger” and prayers are messages to God. Its very appropriate for angels to hear our prayers. The saints do not share our limitations either. Living in Heaven, and having the transfigured bodies of eternal life, they too are much more spiritual than fleshy. Intercession of the saints is simply the proper expression of holy people doing the Lord’s work.

 

[st.jerome]

Another point, God alone is God, but the very nature of Christ’s mission on Earth was so that we could become "like God:’’ the process of divinization. Christ who was fully God could do what no human could do. Christ who was fully human raised up our human nature through his death and Resurrection. Through Christ, we receive the divine gifts that make sainthood possible. This is not just scriptural, this is at the core of the Gospels. Is it possible for the saints to intercede who have been divinized? Of course it is! God’s sharing of His nature is the ultimate gift to us.

 

[Mickey]

Huguenot:

But if you repeat the Lord’s Prayer I don’t know how many times, I’m not sure it is possible to concentrate on what you say ; at least, I couldn’t, so I prefer avoiding doing so …

The words are not that difficult to understand.

Huguenot:

some even pray a particular saint when they have lost something

Perhaps they are asking a particular Saint to pray with them, so that by the grace of God they will find something that has been lost that is very dear to them.

 

[Huguenot]

Mickey:

The words are not that difficult to understand.

Perhaps they are asking a particular Saint to pray with them, so that by the grace of God they will find something that has been lost that is very dear to them.

Even if the words are easy to understand, it is a matter of really realizing what you are saying when you pray them …

They don’t ask this saint to pray for them, they ask him to DO something for them …not to pray with them …
Maybe Catholics express their faiths in different ways , there may be cultural differences too …

 

[Mickey]

Huguenot:

Even if the words are easy to understand, it is a matter of really realizing what you are saying when you pray them .

Absolutely!

Huguenot:

They don’t ask this saint to pray for them, they ask him to DO something for them …not to pray with them …
Maybe Catholics express their faiths in different ways , there may be cultural differences too …

Interesting. I’m not real familiar with French culture. I would guess that these individuals do not represent all French Catholics. There’s one way to express the Catholic faith----one, holy Catholic and apostolic–utilizing Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the magisterium teaching office.

Peace to you,
Mickey

 

[auppie]

Neverland:

I ask you, do you use the word PRAY in English for other than God or Higher Being?

The word PRAY is used everyday for other than God or Higher Being. I cannot offer an article, but can offer job experience…I work in a law office. Many documents to the Court conlude their request in the form of a prayer…in fact, this part is called the prayer.

“Wherefore, Defendants/Plaintiffs PRAY that the Court grant them…” whatever it is that is being asked for.

The Defendants, Plaintiff’s or Lawyers do not fall prostrate and worship the Judge.