Protestants - When did the Catholic Church Begin?

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Mannyfit75 said:
The Catholic Church is the Church which Jesus spoke of in Matthew 16:18. He build his Church upon Peter. Simon’s name been changed by God, and God the Father revealed it to Simon by the words which Jesus Christ have spoken. The one who sits on Peter’s Chair now is Pope Benedict XVI. Thank God for the Pope. Thank God for Jesus Christ for founding the Catholic Church.
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That certainly is many peoples’ view, and of course the Orthodox would disagree. So might the Protestants, or the many other categories of Christians.

God’s kingdom is everlasting and from His throne, through his Son, His Eternal Word, God created upholds and governs all that exists: the heavenly places, the angelic hosts, the universe, the earth, every living thing, and mankind.

The church is only in the last category (no angels, animals, et al).
Eschatalogically, redemption is for Creation, but only for humanity is faith required.
 
Barrett’s definition:

“A denomination is defined in this Encyclopedia as an organized aggregate of worship centers or congregations of similar ecclesiastical tradition ***within a specific country”

***Who defines what is “similar”?

How big is an “aggregate”?

Why limit it to a “specific country”?

Barrett’s findings are useful as a thumbnail but were never intended for polemical purposes. If you’re going to drive a nail, you don’t use a pillow.

I like my view better, it’s every bit as useful for the purposes of our discussion.
 
geraldffff said:
Interesting one would list MLKJr who agreed with the idea that females should abort their children for economic reasons. I do not think MLKJr can compare in anyway with Augustine who read in the original languages the writers who were there at the beginning of the Catholic Church. There are truths in factual history that one should not revise if they ever hope to know Truth. Anyone who read Augustine with an honest inquiring heart cannot deny the Catholic Church was alive then and continues to this day being lead by Pope Benedict .
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MLKJr was a sinner in need of redemption like every human being, irrespective of their church tradition. Including Augustine.
 
ahem said:
That certainly is many peoples’ view, and of course the Orthodox would disagree. So might the Protestants, or the many other categories of Christians.
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Orthodox for now disagree but soon they will agree because the EO and CC will be ONE CHURCH
God’s kingdom is everlasting and from His throne, through his Son, His Eternal Word, God created upholds and governs all that exists: the heavenly places, the angelic hosts, the universe, the earth, every living thing, and mankind.
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The **church is only in the last category **(no angels, animals, et al).
Eschatalogically, redemption is for Creation, but only for humanity is faith required.
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How dare you deny Church as the last catagory. Apparently you have not read Colossians 1:12-20 because in that passage Jesus is the Head of the Church!

The Church is Jesus Christ, and we are the members. The foundation of the Church is built upon the Apostles and Jesus is the chief cornerstone. The Church has been called as the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ. The Church is also the Bride of the Lamb, the Church… They are One. For a man shall leave his mother and father and clive to his wife. The two shall become one flesh…
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Orthodox for now disagree but soon they will agree because the EO and CC will be ONE CHURCH

How dare you deny Church as the last catagory. Apparently you have not read Colossians 1:12-20 because in that passage Jesus is the Head of the Church!

The Church is Jesus Christ!
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Jesus preexists the church. He ruled from eternity before any human was formed. The point of Colossians is that he became human and as such is the head of the church. Had he not become human, not only would he not be the head, there would be no church.
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Then why do your Protestant brothers and sister tell us that the Catholic Church is pagan and whore of babylon? Are these true statement? If they aren’t. They are lies…
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There is a difference between something being untrue and being a lie. For example, if someone living 1000 years ago said that the earth was flat that would be untrue. It would not be a lie because he honestly believed it.

Many Protestants are ignorant of what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Until they are told what it actually teaches they may be uninformed but not liars. Once they should know what the Church teaches and willfully disregard it they pass over to being liars.

However it is not a lie to disagree on a matter of doctrine. I know what the Catholic Church teaches on papal infallibility for example. However I sincerely believe that it is wrong. I am not telling a lie if I say the Pope is not fallible, even though you may not agree with me. It would be a lie to say that the Catholic Church says that the Pope is incapable of making mistakes or sinning as I know that the Church does not teach that.
 
ahem said:
Jesus preexists the church. He ruled from eternity before any human was formed. The point of Colossians is that he became human and as such is the head of the church. Had he not become human, not only would he not be the head, there would be no church.
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Jesus did exist. He was in the beginning, but he did not begotten a flesh. You seriously need to stop separating the Church and Jesus Christ. Are you the Divorce lawyer of Jesus Christ?
 
ahem said:
I only quoted you. 🤷
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You did and believe that lie. Hence, you are a liar because you believe the Catholic Church is not the Church Jesus Christ established. Anyone who denies this truth is a LIAR
 
Mannyfit75 said:
You did and believe that lie. Hence, you are a liar because you believe the Catholic Church is not the Church Jesus Christ established. Anyone who denies this truth is a LIAR
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lol

Very funny, Manny.

Ha ha ha.

Okay now, you do know better than that, right?

(Did you ever get around to explaining what an “indirect liar” was?)
 
Mannyfit75 said:
Protestants who believe like ahem that the Catholic Church is like him. A liar…
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I haven’t been following very closely what Ahem has been saying, I have been concentrating on you.

Could you encapsulate for me or direct me to the post where Ahem tells a lie about your church?
 
Mannyfit75 said:
How dare you deny Church as the last catagory. Apparently you have not read Colossians 1:12-20 because in that passage Jesus is the Head of the Church!
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Please don’t be offended, but it seems you have a a small view of Jesus.

Scripture regards him as head of the church, but he is not only head of the church.

He is the ruler of all things, visible and invisible.
 
Steadfast said:
I haven’t been following very closely what Ahem has been saying, I have been concentrating on you.

Could you encapsulate for me or direct me to the post where Ahem tells a lie about your church?
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You know what? Never mind, I don’t care what Ahem said.

Apparently you think I am a liar too.

When have I lied?
 
I am comforted and encouraged to know personally Catholics who not not insecure and hence feel no need to be combative, always defensive about their claims.

I am honored to call them close friends.
 
The statement I made that Protestant agree that the Catholic Church is not the Church founded by Jesus Christ. ahem agree.

The truth is. The Catholic Church is the Church established by Jesus Christ.
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Manny:
The Catholic Church is not the Church founded by Jesus Christ 2,000 yrs ago.
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ahem:
I can heartily agree. But that does not exclude them from the body of Christ.
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Mannyfit75 said:
you are a liar because you believe the Catholic Church is not the Church Jesus Christ established. Anyone who denies this truth is a LIAR
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I think the catholic church is very much larger than your particular communion, but I also believe that your communion is part of it.

Am I a liar too?
 
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