Protestants - When did the Catholic Church Begin?

[Memaw]

Jesus did establish the church, but my point was that the message of the church is not the church, but the kingdom. When we preach a church, we are off-message, and alienate unbelievers/pagans by our blindness to our own deficiencies and spotty history.

I am glad that you appreciate that I do not consider the Roman Catholic church apostate.

You are in for one BIG surprise, I’d like to see the look on your face when you realize the TRUTH. We spell our Church with a capitol C, you spell yours with a lower case c, maybe thats why there is soooo much confusion in the protestant denominations

 

[ahem]

You are in for one BIG surprise, I’d like to see the look on your face when you realize the TRUTH. We spell our Church with a capitol C, you spell yours with a lower case c, maybe thats why there is soooo much confusion in the protestant denominations

Just for you, I’ll capitalize.

"Jesus did establish the church, but my point was that the message of the church is not the church, but the kingdom. When we preach a Church, we are off-message, and alienate unbelievers/pagans by our blindness to our own deficiencies and spotty history.

I am glad that you appreciate that I do not consider the Roman Catholic church apostate."

 

[Grace_Seeker]

It’s funny that Protestants think that the Catholic Church is an apostasy…

I request that you are careful to say “some Protestants” or “many Protestants” or “all Protestants that I have met” when you make a statement like this.

It is not a true characterization of all Protestants or nor is it accurate to imply that simply because you can identify a person as a member of a Protestant denomination that he/she thinks that the Catholic Church is an apostasy.

 

[Filius99993]

Calm down Manny, you’re going to blow a gasket.

First, do you know the definition of “politcal”?

It doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with political parties like Republicans and Democrats. In fact, the reason those groups are called “political” rests in the very same meaning of the word that is why I said the Catholic Church is a political institution – they are filled with people that are like-minded enough to form a common community, in this case the Catholic Church.

It comes from the word polis meaning a state or society characterized by a sense of community. Are you going to tell me that the Catholic Church is not a society characterized by a sense of community? You yourself said it is an ecclessial community (i.e. a common assembly) made up of the laity (the people) and religious. Every discrete body of people is in some way or another a political entity. Hence, since the Catholic Church is the largest body of Christian believers, it is indeed a discrete body of people (I’m making the assumption that the believers we are talking about are people), it therefore is a political entity.

As far is it being an institution, the Catholic Church regularly speaks of itself this way, so I’m not going to try to explain that to you.

So, given that it is a political entity and it is an institution it follows that it is a political institution.

But the other thing that is interesting in what you said is that you once again, albeit unknowingly, gave credence to my description of what is the catholic Church as distinct from the Catholic Church. In saying, You imply that the Cathoilic Churc is not the only body of Christian believers. If there are other bodies of Christian believers, there is something in Christendom that is bigger than the Catholic Church to which both the Catholic Church belongs (as the biggest body) and these other believers belong all at the same time. What are you going to call it? Is it not the body of Christ, the assembly of those who belong to Christ, i.e. the ecclesia or Church. And if it includes everyone both Catholic and others, then it is universal. And if it is universal, it is, by definition, catholic. Hence this other group to which the Catholic Church belongs and includes non-Catholic believers as well, is the one true catholic Church.

Thank you for doing such a good job of making my point for me.

Wait, who you’re the only one here claiming that other groups of Christians are the body of Christ. But, if they don’t eat of the body, then, in fact, they aren’t… (Christ’s own words!)

We generally accept the apostate religions as “Christian”. That’s what Manny was getting at. But they really aren’t if they don’t have the Eucharist. Don’t put words into people’s mouths! That’s the Holy Spirit’s job!

 

[Grace_Seeker]

Wait, who you’re the only one here claiming that other groups of Christians are the body of Christ. But, if they don’t eat of the body, then, in fact, they aren’t… (Christ’s own words!)

We generally accept the apostate religions as “Christian”. That’s what Manny was getting at. But they really aren’t if they don’t have the Eucharist. Don’t put words into people’s mouths! That’s the Holy Spirit’s job!

So, are you suggesting that there are people who are indeed Christians, who belong to Christ, that are not part of the “body of Christ”?

 

[Filius99993]

So, are you suggesting that there are people who are indeed Christians, who belong to Christ, that are not part of the “body of Christ”?

Well, “Christian” is only a word. The body of Christ is.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Even if I accepted that the Roman Catholic Church was the only real or original church, which as you can tell, is not my belief (please don’t be offended–free exchange of ideas), if I describe a parish biblically it would be like you wrote: San Antonio, and New York, not “St. Anthony’s” or “Our Lady of Guadalupe” and such, because there are many such names in our single neighborhood.

I’m not offended at all. I just want you to acknowledge that the Catholic Church is the original Church of Christ.

I accept Catholics joyfully, even though I don’t think a separate priesthood from the priesthood of believers is legitimate, because I see multiple problems in all expressions of the church, whether Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, or any other tradition or culture.

I see no problems in the Catholic Church concerning all its teachings. I do see disobedience Catholics who ignore the teachings and rather follow their own heart than that of the mind of the Church.

 

[ahem]

I just want you to acknowledge that the Catholic Church is the original Church of Christ.

You’re cute.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Calm down Manny, you’re going to blow a gasket.

First of all I did not blow a gasket. You just got a wrong impression on my post.

First, do you know the definition of “political”?

It doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with political parties like Republicans and Democrats. In fact, the reason those groups are called “political” rests in the very same meaning of the word that is why I said the Catholic Church is a political institution – they are filled with people that are like-minded enough to form a common community, in this case the Catholic Church.

I would say the Catholic Catholic has political influence but it is not a political institution like a secular government. The mission of the Catholic Church is to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It comes from the word polis meaning a state or society characterized by a sense of community. Are you going to tell me that the Catholic Church is not a society characterized by a sense of community? You yourself said it is an ecclessial community (i.e. a common assembly) made up of the laity (the people) and religious. Every discrete body of people is in some way or another a political entity. Hence, since the Catholic Church is the largest body of Christian believers, it is indeed a discrete body of people (I’m making the assumption that the believers we are talking about are people), it therefore is a political entity.

No it is not a political entity.

As far is it being an institution, the Catholic Church regularly speaks of itself this way, so I’m not going to try to explain that to you.

So, given that it is a political entity and it is an institution it follows that it is a political institution.

It is not political institution. This is a pattern you should take note.

But the other thing that is interesting in what you said is that you once again, albeit unknowingly, gave credence to my description of what is the catholic Church as distinct from the Catholic Church. In saying, You imply that the Cathoilic Churc is not the only body of Christian believers.

The Catholic Church is the Body of Believers of Christians include those not in full communion with us.

If there are other bodies of Christian believers, there is something in Christendom that is bigger than the Catholic Church to which both the Catholic Church belongs (as the biggest body) and these other believers belong all at the same time. What are you going to call it? Is it not the body of Christ, the assembly of those who belong to Christ, i.e. the ecclesia or Church.

It is the Body of Christ. The Catholic Church is also referred to as Mother Church, Bride of the Lamb, Body of Christ.

And if it includes everyone both Catholic and others, then it is universal. And if it is universal, it is, by definition, catholic. Hence this other group to which the Catholic Church belongs and includes non-Catholic believers as well, is the one true catholic Church.

Non-Catholic believers are members but their union is imperfect. They do not contains the full means of salvation.

Thank you for doing such a good job of making my point for me.

Your welcome.

 

[ahem]

I just want you to acknowledge that the Catholic Church is the original Church of Christ.

You’re cute.

 

[abcd]

True, but he did found the Church. Remember, Peter as the rock? We’re still around, you know! I just find it very hypocritical of what so many Protestants are doing (but not you, thankfully.)

Fil,
You throw that word Hypocrite around a lot when refering to Prots. I could give you many examples of Catholics but have stayed away from name calling. I think you should refrain from the name calling

 

[Filius99993]

Fil,
You throw that word Hypocrite around a lot when refering to Prots. I could give you many examples of Catholics but have stayed away from name calling. I think you should refrain from the name calling

Exactly how so?

 

[Church_Militant]

Well, I don’t see any definitive assertions from n-Cs as to when the Catholic Church began that haven’t been refuted.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Well, I don’t see any definitive assertions from n-Cs as to when the Catholic Church began that haven’t been refuted.

After #368 posts. The NCC can’t produce any good argument. In most cases, they only give you a circular argument, which I think has become pointless.

 

[Namesake]

That’s why there are over 30,000 protestant sects/denominations, as everyone thinks they are Christ and creates their own Church or think they can create a Church better than Christ Himself did.

Can you name all 30,000? If not, maybe you should stop that nonsense?

 

[Filius99993]

Can you name all 30,000? If not, maybe you should stop that nonsense?

Names are only names. The only churches that matter are the ones with the Eucharist. And none of the Protestant sects have it.

 

[Church_Militant]

You n-Cs can stop :crying: and admit that there are very definitely a lot more “churches” among you than is righteous. It’s a fact.

Maybe not 20 or 30 thousand, but with the exponential growth of “non-denominational” communities there is no way that you can tell me that there isn’t many thousands of such out there.

Heck…someone with too much time on their hands could probably go through the phone books for just the major cities of the U.S and find 20,000 listings for faith communities outside of the mainstream denominations.

That is…unless anyone is willing to assert that all those little independent faith communities that answer to no one but the guy who made himself pastor aren’t real churches?

 

[CentralFLJames]

Can you name all 30,000? If not, maybe you should stop that nonsense?

Honestly, I do sympathize for Protestants. You all had no way of knowing that when Luther started the rebellion that you would be stuck with having to take on all the sins of very wild heretical breakaway Christian sect under the general banner of papal-rebellion. The legion of protestant sects now is so huge that you all are barely distinguishable from the legions of social and benevolent clubs all over the world.

Protestants now have sect representation at almost ever level in society from the extremes of Waco & Jim Jones to country revival tents and on up to middle of the road Protestants in the monarchical ruled Anglicans. That puts protestants in a fuzzy position in the food chain somewhere above unbelievers, and Temple Shriners but probably not not even on par (in my opinion) with The Knights of Columbus in the pecking order.

The only way to escape the farce (apart from coming back to The Catholic Church) is to ditch the “protestant” moniker and invent something new like the Mormons, Scientologists and Jehovah Witnesses did and call yourselves “non-Catholic” since that’s about all you all have in common anymore.

James

 

[Namesake]

As a Latin Rite Catholic, I find it extremely offensive to call the Catholic Church as just Roman Catholic Church. You put that as our label, it would offended the Eastern Rite Catholics who like I said are NOT ROMAN!

Hey Manny…you don’t like it but the Roman Catholic Church is a real entity. I think you are a Roman Catholic, like it or not.

 

[Filius99993]

points at James He said it!