Protestants who believe in the Real Presence: Are they committing idolatry?

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No. No one worships bread. We worship what the bread becomes.

Are you a priest? If not, please stop giving authoritative answers like these. If you are a priest, please read what Pope Benedict wrote about Christ being present in a protestant’s Lord’s Supper.
We Catholics are adoring the Host, which is Our Lord veiled under the appearance of bread, so yes we are not adoring bread but God Himself. The Protestants adore a host, but it is not Our Lord, so they are adoring a piece of bread that they falsely believe is God. Catholics and Protestants direct their adoration to the Host, for us we are directing it to God but for Protestants they are directing it toward a piece of bread.

No, I am not a priest, and I don’t see how my post is authoritative.
 
We Catholics are adoring the Host, which is Our Lord veiled under the appearance of bread, so yes we are not adoring bread but God Himself. The Protestants adore a host, but it is not Our Lord, so they are adoring a piece of bread that they falsely believe is God. Catholics and Protestants direct their adoration to the Host, for us we are directing it to God but for Protestants they are directing it toward a piece of bread.

No, I am not a priest, and I don’t see how my post is authoritative.
I don’t either.
 
Think of a youngster who honestly believes in Santa Claus. They’ll be good, they’ll await him, they’ll fill up with anxiety when Santa is watching. They see him at the shops and honestly, truly, believe it is him. I also know more Anglicans who believe in the real presence than Catholics, unfortunately.
Santa Claus. 😉
 
Yes, if their ordinations are invalid and they adore the bread and wine as God, then it can be classified as idolatry since they are adoring something that isn’t God. Just as if a Catholic were to adore a statue by claiming it is God Himself. Since they don’t know that Our Lord is not present, and they truly believe it to be validly consecrated, they are probably not culpable.
I can say that in the LCMS that we do not “adore” the bread and wine as God.
Biblical basis[edit]
Martin Luther (like many) saw the main basis for the Eucharist (as well as the Real Presence) to be found in Matthew 26:26–28, Mark 14:22–24, Luke 22:19-20, and 1 Corinthians 11:23-29.[3]
Sacramental union
Lutherans believe that the Body and Blood of Christ are “truly and substantially present in, with and under the forms” of consecrated bread and wine (the elements),[4] so that communicants eat and drink both the elements and the true Body and Blood of Christ himself[5] in the Sacrament of the Eucharist whether they are believers or unbelievers.[6][7] The Lutheran doctrine of the Real Presence is also known as the sacramental union.[8][9] This theology was first formally and publicly confessed in the Wittenberg Concord (1536).[10] It has also been called “consubstantiation” but most Lutheran theologians reject the use of this term as it creates confusion with an earlier doctrine of the same name.[11] Some Lutherans do believe in consubstantiation.[12] Lutherans use the term “in, with and under the forms of consecrated bread and wine” and “sacramental union” to distinguish their understanding of the Eucharist from those of the Reformed and other traditions.[4]
Use of the sacrament[edit]
For Lutherans the Eucharist is not considered to be a valid sacrament unless the elements are used according to Christ’s mandate and institution (consecration, distribution, and reception).[4] This was first formulated in the Wittenberg Concord of 1536 in the formula: Nihil habet rationem sacramenti extra usum a Christo institutum (“Nothing has the character of a sacrament apart from the use instituted by Christ”).[13] To remove any scruple of doubt or superstition, the reliquiæ traditionally are either consumed, poured into the earth, or reserved (see below). In most Lutheran congregations, the administration of private communion of the sick and “shut-in” (those too feeble to attend services) involves a completely separate service of the Eucharist for which the sacramental elements are consecrated by the celebrant.[14]
Hope this helps your understanding!

Blessings!

Rita
 
We Catholics are adoring the Host, which is Our Lord veiled under the appearance of bread, so yes we are not adoring bread but God Himself. The Protestants adore a host, but it is not Our Lord, so they are adoring a piece of bread that they falsely believe is God. Catholics and Protestants direct their adoration to the Host, for us we are directing it to God but for Protestants they are directing it toward a piece of bread.

No, I am not a priest, and I don’t see how my post is authoritative.
Lutherans do not “adore” a host and, yes, the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ as we have the Word of God and the Elements. There is absolutely NO adoration that occurs in our church. :eek:

:crossrc:

God bless!

Rita
 
**Lutherans do not “adore” a host **and, yes, the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ as we have the Word of God and the Elements. There is absolutely NO adoration that occurs in our church. :eek:

:crossrc:

God bless!

Rita
Some Lutherans “adore” a host. You can see a picture of “Adoration at a High Lutheran church in Kansas City, Missouri” with a monstrance in the Wikipedia article on “Eucharistic adoration”:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharistic_adoration

As the article explains:
Historically in Lutheranism there have been two parties regarding Eucharistic adoration: Gnesio-Lutherans, who followed Martin Luther’s view in favor of adoration, and Philippists who followed Philipp Melanchthon’s view against it. Although Luther did not entirely approve of the* Feast of Corpus Christi,[51] he wrote a treatise “The Adoration of the Sacrament*” (Von anbeten des sakraments des heyligen leychnahms Christi, 1523) where he defended adoration but desired that the issue not be forced. In his reform of the Roman Mass Luther placed the Sanctus after the Institution Narrative to serve as a solemn act of worship of the Real Presence just brought about by the latter. After the death of Martin Luther, further controversies developed including Crypto-Calvinism and the second Sacramentarian controversy, started by Gnesio-Lutheran Joachim Westphal. The Philippist understanding of the Real Presence without overt adoration through time became dominant in Lutheranism, although it is not in accordance with Luther’s teaching. The German theologian Andreas Musculus can be regarded as one of the warmest defenders of Eucharistic adoration in early Lutheranism.
 
I was watching a video from a Catholic traditionalist, John Salza, who while not being opposed to Vatican II on principle, was concerned about changes made in the intervening 50 years that may have resulted in invalid consecrations at Catholic masses. His argument was that indeed Catholics who were worshiping the host that had been invalidly consecrated are committing idolatry. So by his definition I’d guess his view would be that Anglican, Lutherans and anyone else who believe in the Real Presence who isn’t Catholic would similarly be committing idolatry.

Not that I agree with him since Protestants who believe in the Real Presence believe exactly that. That Christ is truly present in the Eucharist and that they are worshiping his presence in it. And the same for Catholics at an invalid consecration I’d add. And you could make the argument that even absent consecration, as Christ said in Matthew 18:20 he is there in some form regardless of the consecration (be it Catholic or Protestant).
 
Lutherans do not “adore” a host and, yes, the bread and wine are the body and blood of Christ as we have the Word of God and the Elements. There is absolutely NO adoration that occurs in our church. :eek:

:crossrc:

God bless!

Rita
That’s not true. We certainly adore the Body and Blood of Christ. Most Lutheran churches nowadays do it as they receive. We kneel and bow our heads as we receive and we make the sign of the cross after having received.

Now, if you mean that we do not set aside the host for solely adoration without intent to actually commune, then you are correct.
 
I was watching a video from a Catholic traditionalist, John Salza, who while not being opposed to Vatican II on principle, was concerned about changes made in the intervening 50 years that may have resulted in invalid consecrations at Catholic masses.
IDK John Salza, but from what you’ve said he sounds like an extremely “hardcore” traditionalist – so much so that I doubt he is a Catholic.
 
IDK John Salza, but from what you’ve said he sounds like an extremely “hardcore” traditionalist – so much so that I doubt he is a Catholic.
He’s on Catholic Radio and EWTN as a guest and runs his own Catholic Apologetics site. Pretty sure he’s Catholic.
 
I was watching a video from a Catholic traditionalist, John Salza, who while not being opposed to Vatican II on principle, was concerned about changes made in the intervening 50 years that may have resulted in invalid consecrations at Catholic masses. His argument was that indeed Catholics who were worshiping the host that had been invalidly consecrated are committing idolatry. So by his definition I’d guess his view would be that Anglican, Lutherans and anyone else who believe in the Real Presence who isn’t Catholic would similarly be committing idolatry.
Eh, anyone that says what I bolded in your post probably isn’t worth listening to. 🤷
 
He’s on Catholic Radio and EWTN as a guest and runs his own Catholic Apologetics site. Pretty sure he’s Catholic.
Yeah, if he was on EWTN then you’re probably right. I’ve just never heard a Catholic speaker, including hardcore traditionalist Catholics, make a claim like that about idolatry in the Catholic Church.
 
We Catholics are adoring the Host, which is Our Lord veiled under the appearance of bread, so yes we are not adoring bread but God Himself. The Protestants adore a host, but it is not Our Lord, so they are adoring a piece of bread that they falsely believe is God. Catholics and Protestants direct their adoration to the Host, for us we are directing it to God but for Protestants they are directing it toward a piece of bread.

No, I am not a priest, and I don’t see how my post is authoritative.
Actually, I think you may be in error.
Some protestants(at least in Evangangelical circles) believe Lord’s Supper is celebrated no differently than the passover: To remember what the Lord did, lest we forget. Basically newpassover. Forgive me if I am in error.
 
Actually, I think you may be in error.
Some protestants(at least in Evangangelical circles) believe Lord’s Supper is celebrated no differently than the passover: To remember what the Lord did, lest we forget. Basically newpassover. Forgive me if I am in error.
I believe the OP was referring not to Evangelicals, but rather Anglican, Lutherans and other denominations that believe in the Real Presence while not being Catholic. Clearly no one could accuse those that see the Lord’s Supper as simply memorial of being idolaters.
 
Actually, I think you may be in error.
Some protestants(at least in Evangangelical circles) believe Lord’s Supper is celebrated no differently than the passover: To remember what the Lord did, lest we forget. Basically newpassover. Forgive me if I am in error.
You are correct in that not all Protestants believe Our Lord becomes present under the veil of bread, but I was speaking merely of the Protestants that the original poster referred to that do believe in Our Lord’s presence. I suppose I could have used a less general term, I thought it would be understood in context.
 
That’s not true. We certainly adore the Body and Blood of Christ. Most Lutheran churches nowadays do it as they receive. We kneel and bow our heads as we receive and we make the sign of the cross after having received.

Now, if you mean that we do not set aside the host for solely adoration without intent to actually commune, then you are correct.
Yes, that is what I mean insofar as we do not set it aside for adoration. Kneeling at our altars to receive the Body and Blood is adore our Lord. Most of the people in the 2 churches up here do not cross themselves.

Thanks, Don
 
Thank you for clarifying, spedteacherita, I was a little confused by your previous post.

Indeed, traditionally adore means worship (latreia in Greek).
 
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