Protestants who believe Mary, the Mother of God sinned

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

Do you believe it was possible for Her, and did She infact, sin, while pregnant with Jesus?

Do I think it’s possible? Yes. Did she? I don’t know for sure. I think that’s between her and God.

I do believe that she sinned in her lifetime because she was human and we all fall short. But God loves us anyway.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

ok duh it wouldnt have fullfilled prophcy, i was using that as an example to say that she was a human vessel for the Lord just like moses and and peter and paul. Her role was was the most importiant but that doesnt make her any sinless. if your born human you are born into sin. Im not saying tha she went out and did bad things she was a good person but you cant forget that she was human like you and me, and she said yes to God. She was Highly favored and thats why God picked her.

I totally agree with you entirely. The only sinless person was Jesus.

 

[adstrinity]

All the Protestants (and others if any) who answered, ‘it’s POSSIBLE…’, really think about it. Think of this to it’s logical conclusion, don’t just dismiss it. Even if you think She sinned in life, would She have been able to do so for these 9 months? Could She disobey God with Herself so intimately connected with Him. AND, on the flip-side, She became the devil’s number one enemy at the time (contenders on this?); would the devil have pursued and enticed Her more at this time to fall?

Keep in mind, since Mary has no sin, according to Catholic beliefs, we believe that IF She was tempted by the devil (as one can conclude surely She was, despite evidence), because She was preserved from sin, the devil would have been outside Her, that is, like when Jesus was fasting and the devil appeared to Him because he was not internalized, the same thing with Mary…though, for the sake of the argument, I accept not all who respond will view it like this.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

All the Protestants (and others if any) who answered, ‘it’s POSSIBLE…’, really think about it. Think of this to it’s logical conclusion, don’t just dismiss it. Even if you think She sinned in life, would She have been able to do so for these 9 months? Could She disobey God with Herself so intimately connected with Him. AND, on the flip-side, She became the devil’s number one enemy at the time (contenders on this?); would the devil have pursued and enticed Her more at this time to fall?

Keep in mind, since Mary has no sin, according to Catholic beliefs, we believe that IF She was tempted by the devil (as one can conclude surely She was, despite evidence), because She was preserved from sin, the devil would have been outside Her, that is, like when Jesus was fasting and the devil appeared to Him because he was not internalized, the same thing with Mary…though, for the sake of the argument, I accept not all who respond will view it like this.

It’s possilbe…she was human not God. The only sinless person was Jesus. Period.

 

[unacanta]

All the Protestants (and others if any) who answered, ‘it’s POSSIBLE…’, really think about it. Think of this to it’s logical conclusion, don’t just dismiss it. Even if you think She sinned in life, would She have been able to do so for these 9 months? Could She disobey God with Herself so intimately connected with Him. AND, on the flip-side, She became the devil’s number one enemy at the time (contenders on this?); would the devil have pursued and enticed Her more at this time to fall?

Keep in mind, since Mary has no sin, according to Catholic beliefs, we believe that IF She was tempted by the devil (as one can conclude surely She was, despite evidence), because She was preserved from sin, the devil would have been outside Her, that is, like when Jesus was fasting and the devil appeared to Him because he was not internalized, the same thing with Mary…though, for the sake of the argument, I accept not all who respond will view it like this.

I will only say that you place her at a level above humanity when you think she never sinned. Mary says the following:Luke 1:46-47
46And Mary said:
"My soul exalts the Lord,
47And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.

Sinless people need no Savior.

 

[wmscott]

Went away for a week on business and came back to this, shame shame shame, I cant believe how this has been ratcheted up. Every post I have ever been on regarding the Blessed Mother, there are some protestants that just cant wait to start their attacks against the Mother of our Lord. Regardless of what we believe, how pitiful and pathetic are these poor souls who feel the need to denigrate the Catholic beliefs and respect of Christs mother. I hope it makes you feel better about yourselves and your personal brand of theology.

I have to separate myself from this.

 

[KathleenGee]

I know, WmScott, and shake my hand to assume they know about Mary’s personal life and implied it was sinful…before the presence of her Lord and Son.

Mary appeared near a garbage dump in Lourdes, France in the mid 1800’s. Finally Bernadette asked her name, and she looked up to heaven and said, "I am the Immaculate Conception’.

Bernadette returned to tell her pastor the name of the lady. He knew Bernadette had little studies outside her catechism.

Again, people should see Mary’s presence reflected in the corpus of St. Bernadette who never wanted to sin her entire life…she never broke her baptismal promise.

If Bernadette could retain so much sanctity in her sinful corpus, then how much more of Mary’s…so where is the Mother of God buried?

We have the graves the apostles…SS Peter and Paul have been exhumed and extenuating circumstances infer they could very well be their remains.

You can look at the Word out God as a book to meditate on, and then we have the Tradition of our Church…that retains the effects of contributions of all past saints. You shouldn’t separate the Word of God from human experience…especially those most close to Christ.

 

[Douglas_Kraeger]

Bac onpost 109 I wrote, "--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ack on post 109 I wrote:
I am of the opinion that Gen 3:15, when thought about in conjunction with the nature of God, should help all see God’s answer. When God told the serpant, " I will put enmity between you and the Woman, between your seed and Hers", that is an important revelation. Now consider that God is outside of time and has only one, infinite, eternal, always in the present tense, thought or Word (Jesus). That makes God really, always saying in the present perfect tense, “I am putting enmity between you and the woman”. God’s word is that He is always putting enmity between Mary and the devil, as a special gift. Does it not follow then that Mary, by this special favor from God (because of Her Son’s saving death) never sinned by commission or omission? Think of the wisdom and grace and knowledge a person could have if they never missed a chance at earning grace or knowledge of God.
Does anyone want to argue that God does not have one, infinite, eternal, always in the present tense, thought? How could God be All-Knowing if He was not thinking about everything all at once? How could He be All-Powerful if that was beyond His ability?

 When we apply the next verse to Jesus, " I will put enmity between your seed and hers." and combine that with "He was like us in all things, except sin"; does anyone deny that the enmity that Jesus had by His nature produced no sin in Him? Then when we say Mary was saved FROM sin because of the gift of enmity with the devil that was earned for Her by the life and Death of Her Son (applied before Her Birth) from the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (because their single, infinite thought is eternally in the present tense).

Why is it that many Catholics and protestants do not apply the Word of God, Gen. 3:15 to Mary and God’s nature, and come to this conclusion?

 

[wmscott]

I know, WmScott, and shake my hand to assume they know about Mary’s personal life and implied it was sinful…before the presence of her Lord and Son.

Mary appeared near a garbage dump in Lourdes, France in the mid 1800’s. Finally Bernadette asked her name, and she looked up to heaven and said, "I am the Immaculate Conception’.

Bernadette returned to tell her pastor the name of the lady. He knew Bernadette had little studies outside her catechism.

Again, people should see Mary’s presence reflected in the corpus of St. Bernadette who never wanted to sin her entire life…she never broke her baptismal promise.

If Bernadette could retain so much sanctity in her sinful corpus, then how much more of Mary’s…so where is the Mother of God buried?

We have the graves the apostles…SS Peter and Paul have been exhumed and extenuating circumstances infer they could very well be their remains.

You can look at the Word out God as a book to meditate on, and then we have the Tradition of our Church…that retains the effects of contributions of all past saints. You shouldn’t separate the Word of God from human experience…especially those most close to Christ.

Sad thing is that these very same individuals would be screaming bloody murder if someone were to attack their own mother, they have respect and high regards for their mother but when it comes to Gods mother, who quick they are to turn on Her.

 

[KathleenGee]

Jesus received His flesh from Mary.

St. Michael said, “Who is like unto God?” All are creatures.

Mary is a creature as Satan is a creature and the emnity is between the woman (A Great Sign in the sky???) and the serpent.

There is the image of Mary standing on the serpent entwined over the crescent moon on the tilma of Guadalupe…

 

[lome]

Mary The Mother of God can’t have a stain of sin.She is the woman promised in Gen:3:15,
the woman with 12 stars on her head,and cloth with the sun,in the Apocalypse

How can a Mother of God be sinful? Satan never had a chance with her for God protected her and hid her.Mary the mother of Jesus never knew sin,lthought she is not capable of
offending God ,she didn’t know it. ( revelation to a saint)

Not one was ever addressed by an angel like the way it was done with Mary
" Full of Grace " No grace missing or lacking? How can there be a stain?

Would the Angel be contradicting the scripture in Romans 3:23
" for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;"

 

[schaick]

She did what all of us should do: She said yes to God.

Mary’s YES countered Eve’s NO.

By saying yes to God, you oppose the devil and defeat him.

No Mary did not defeat satan for all times. Many have said yes to GOD but sin still existed in the world kept man captive-unable to reach GOD.

The only one that has defeated satan is Jesus. HE was able to break free of death and pay our debt

Stephen was full of grace, was he still a sinner - yes:
Acts 6
8Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people.

Do Catholics believe that **our salvation depends **on whether we know if Mary sinned or not, remained a virgin or not, was immaculately conceived or not?

 

[litlechristian]

wait wat does it mean when you say she (Mary) was perserved from sin?

 

[wmscott]

Do Catholics believe that **our salvation depends **on whether we know if Mary sinned or not, remained a virgin or not, was immaculately conceived or not?

Is this a serious question

 

[adstrinity]

No Mary did not defeat satan for all times. Many have said yes to GOD but sin still existed in the world kept man captive-unable to reach GOD.

Well, technicall, this is still a true statement.

The only one that has defeated satan is Jesus. HE was able to break free of death and pay our debt

Yes, because He created and preserved His Mother from all sin and She raised Him right to obey God, His Father and Hers.

Stephen was full of grace, was he still a sinner - yes:
Acts 6
8Now Stephen, a man full of God’s grace and power, did great wonders and miraculous signs among the people.

I believe this has been covered elsewhere in this forum (not this thread); what translation is this?

Do Catholics believe that **our salvation depends **on whether we know if Mary sinned or not, remained a virgin or not, was immaculately conceived or not?

It doesn’t matter if we believe it or not if it’s true.

wait wat does it mean when you say she (Mary) was perserved from sin?

It means that God created His Mother (His Daughter, & His Wife, depending on which Person one is going with) free from the sin of Adam. He intervened when the Foetus was formed and, like when He created Adam & Eve, She didn’t know sin. When She grew up, She knew OF sin, but, She Herself never sinned because She did not have the inclination TO sin. She could have, of coursed, sinned, as She had free will, BUT, She did not have the same desire to disobey God that drives us. She was so close to God that didn’t ever sin (personally) and She was not born in sin, again, because God stepped in and made Her conception immaculate.

For this thread, though, I’m asking, for those who do not believe this, let’s just narrow the time frame to when She was pregnant, is it possible for Her to have not sinned and not even have the inclination to sin.

 

[KathleenGee]

I think others here have no experience among Catholics and our devotion to Mary and how we live it out, so thus they can’t understand well…

Words may never do it…

One thing may help…studying the walk in perfection, union with God…from a Catholic doctor of the Church, the one I thought most clear explaining it was St. Catherine of Siena.

My former Baptist AFroAmerican girlfriend asked me to explain the assumption of Mary into heaven…She was then a Catholic. …so I remembered some of Catherine’s ways…I explained it to her using contemporary talk and she said, ‘That is how Baptists think!’…then I connected it to Mary’s assumption into heaven which she never understood until now.

You have to understand spiritual perfection…may be…or be among Catholics in a day to day experience to understand. It is irritating to say the least when your leaders tell you Catholics worship Mary.

I also read S. Catherine of Siena saying those who teach their followers to persecute priests…and thus deny them the Blood of salvation in the sacraments, commit the most grave sin…because they are denying them the Food of Eternal Life…the Food came from Mary and through Christ it was made divine…but there was no need to purify Mary’s flesh as it was already pure at her conception…

There are some things better left to living out and explaining through the witness of experience in my ways…

 

[bluelake]

Do you believe it was possible for Her, and did She infact, sin, while pregnant with Jesus?

Mary herself said she needed a Savior. However,
Lu.1:26-56 tells the the story of the beginning of the ‘Birth of Jesus Fortold.’
If the Power of the Most High overshadowed Mary that alone would protect her.
The specific question is not addressed in scripture, but we can draw a conclusion by reading these verses.
I would say,No. God the Father was protecting her from the evil one.
Jesus is Emmanuel, God with us. Mt.1:23

bluelake

 

[KathleenGee]

There again you are studying Scripture out of context of tradition. And American fundamentalism takes out the humanity of Christ and the Church. So you have the bible alone with no tradition except that going back to the split with the Catholic Church. So whatever the Church teaches, no matter how sound…Jesus got His body and blood from Mary…and we know she did not sin and did not continue to sin with Jesus…everything the Church teaches about Mary is disregarded.

Fundamentalists can believe their own leadership but no one before them, and we also see your breakaway denominations as man made religions.

They break at the unity of oneness Christ has repeatedly called us to.

What greatly helps unity is tradition…how events were passed down.

We have had events in our family some time ago, but we remember these events because they were real and we share these past experiences with our young who in turn pass them on to their children. That is oral tradition.

Christians throughout time have always had great devotion to the Mother of God. It is only in America that we have the greatest tearing apart of the Sacred Unity of Jesus. Martin Luther had great devotion to Mary. And many mainline Protestants are learning more about her and seeing a new world of spirituality in Christ open to them.

I do not believe in a stand alone Bible that is interpreted every which way. I do not believe Christ intended His church to be so fragmented and inimical. I also think the USA has such a broken faith because we are totally ineffective in working to make a better society.

If we had a greater devotion to the purity of Mary, afterall the patroness of our country is the Immaculate Conception, we would not be promoting so much free sex, divorce, contraception and abortion to the world.

 

[KathleenGee]

Who taught you that?

Only Mary was conceived without sin…by God’s choice, not her parents.

Her conception said yes to God, she was ‘saved’ at her conception. She alone.

We take on the new life of Jesus Christ and it is up to our free will to enter more deeply into the life of Christ without sin…but the just man sins atleast 7 times a day.

We have the sacraments of Christ to nurture us, to absolve us of sin and to lead us into perfection— which is union with God.

The focus for us is the walk in perfection to union of God which is love of God and neighbor…that is our quest and to trust in Christ’s mercy for our sins, and to seek Him as atonement for our sins.

 

[Dokimas]

From: wmscott

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[SIGN]Quote:
Originally Posted by schaick

Do Catholics believe that our salvation depends on whether we know if Mary sinned or not, remained a virgin or not, was immaculately conceived or not? [/SIGN]

Is this a serious question

It’s quite a good question and looks quite serious to me. If it wasn’t serious, let me ask it seriously: “Do Catholics believe that our salvation depends on whether we know if Mary sinned or not, remained a virgin or not, was immaculately conceived or not?”​

Let me go a step further: is our salvation based on whether or not Mary ever sinned, remained a virgin or was immaculately conceived?
In other words, if Mary sinned, didn't remain a virgin or was not immaculately conceived, does that mean we are still dead in our sins?