Protestants, who have been around awhile, question about the Virgin Mary

[rinnie]

Hi, DeSanto,

Too late!

All teenagers already know everything!!

Good luck … my two daughters (now aged 39 and 37) had memorable teenage years … and having grandchildren has truly convinced me that God is Just!

God bless
DeSanto;9537013:
Oh so the curse does work, You know the one I hope you have ONE JUST LIKE YOU. My daughter is 29 none yet, but said soon, My Son is 26 left home twice, is back and says he is never leaving again, is waiting for squater’s rights.

 

[rinnie]

Gosh, this thread for Protestants seems to attract mostly Catholics.

 Now, I come a mixed background. On my paternal family tree we have the first Archbishop of Quebec. Mom's side goes back to the Puritans of early New England.

 Frankly, if people choose to venerate Mary and embrace such dogmas as the Immaculate Conception (defined in 1864) and the Assumption (1950) - fine. Freedom of conscience. Freedom of belief. 

 Obviously, Mary deserves honor as the mother of Jesus. However, in all honestly, I am fearful that some well-intentioned people place her on an equal level with God. Not meaning to, perhaps. But the focus of segments within Catholicism sometimes is so magnified that it can overshadow Christ.

 My own conclusions run along this line.

 Apart from the nativity and crucifixion scenes, Mary is only mentioned twice in the gospels, and in both situations she seems to be sidelined a bit. Consider again Matt. 12:46-50 and John 2:4. 

 Mary was present at Pentecost but barely mentioned. "the women, and mary, the mother of Jesus, and with his brothers." That surely would have been an opportunity for her to demonstrate her centrality among the early Christians.

 Paul and others wrote a number of epistles. Many of these advised early Christians about doctrine and practices. Mary is not mentioned once. 

 A whole theology has been woven out of the ark thesis, a verse in Genesis, a verse in Revelation, etc. I find all this insufficient to justify the position Mary has gained over the years within the Church. I certainly find no scriptural evidence of either the Immaculate Conception or the Assumption. The Bible doesn't mention the parents of Mary, and it is mum when it comes to her death. You would have thought that both would have been made plain somewhere in the Bible were they to become infallible doctrines. It seems that if they happened the writers of the gospels and the epistles would have paid considerable attention to them. 

 But, as I said, no problem for those who can believe. My main issue, I presume, is the lack of freedom within the church to take exception to any such teachings. I tend to respect well-informed conscience and am a bit skeptical when it comes to beliefs that arose in the Greco-Roman days and cannot be substantiated somewhere in scripture. I wish the church would permit a degree of tolerance for other views. 

  I know, I know. The Church cannot be wrong. And then I remember Galileo. And I recall Abelard's *Sic et Non*. Etc. Have I been corrupted by my education or the freedom Americans like me treasure? I studied early church history and the Church Fathers years ago - along with the scriptures - and these studies led to my skepticism. Simply too many contradictions, uncertainties and the likelihood of pagan influences as early Christianity was competing with cults that emphasized a goddess or two. Sorry.

 God bless people of every creed, color, country and culture. Religion should serve as a bridge and not a barrier.

Now Roy says Mary is only mentioned twice in the bible. Now that causes alot of problems with our dear ole roy here, And also many many protestants here.

Now lets see if ole roy is right.

It says a WOMAN clothed with the sun with the moon ounder her feet and on her head a CROWN of Stars. Now protestants and lets say roy says thats not the Blessed Mother. Remember she was only MENTIONED twice right.

Now here is the BIG fat problem.

The women gave birth to a MALE child who was destined to rule all nations with a iron rod.

Now the O.T. predicts the Messiah would be this child. Now if the women in Rev. is not the Blessed Mother Christ didn’t come. Big fat problem would you not say?

Lets see if Roy comes back and lets us know if he is still skeptical about the teachings of the Church

Would love to hear how other protestants deny her also.

 

[rinnie]

Also where is it written to believe in the word if God or deny it is freedom of speech or freedom of religion?

Not the bible. Christ said go and spread the good news if they refuse to listen wipe the dust from your feet and move on.

He also said to the Apostles he who hears YOU hears Me?

Where to Christ say let your conscience rule you?

 

[brumano]

Brumano! Thanks for those references. That is the stuff I’m looking for, stuff to get people really thinking. Are there any more references you can think of beside the most common ones…ie (Genesis and Revelations)? This being one of the big stumbling blocks when talking with my Protestant friends, the fact the Mary is not mentioned in the bible but a few times must mean she was not that important. Yes, she was a very devout woman and yes she did the will of God and yes she’s in heaven walking around up there with Jesus but, nothing in the bible indicates that we must hold her to such a high esteem as say “Queen of Heaven”…these are the arguments I hear. With more references like yours it will get people to want to go back and read the scripture again in a different light that they may not have looked at it before. It may just get one to open their mind and, as tqualey pointed out, they might realize there is something they may have missed.

You’re very welcome, I think there’s so much in scripture about Mary that anyone who doesn’t block her out can’t help but know that she’s there, and that she’s always the Mary that we were taught to believe in and trust as Roman Catholics. There are alot more scriptures in St. Paul’s writings that are reflective of Mary; somewhere else he speaks of earthen vessels being made for profane purposes, and other vessels that are made sacred for sacred purposes, I just can’t find what letter it’s in right now. Another from St.Paul’s letters that comes to mind has to do with the “yes” of Christianity that makes us think of Lk.1v 38, the “yes” of Mary everytime we read it. There are more. Even in some surprising places like Ecclessiastes, Solomon muses on and on about the disappointments of this life and he says “to find goodness in a hundred men I have found only one but of women I have found none.” Well, out of all women God did find one and we know who she is.
Hebrews Ch.'s 8,9,10 can involve Mary (look at C.8v7) if we keep her in mind as the Ark of the New Covenant C9v11 and many others.

 

[BrunoMaria]

where is it written to believe in the word if God or deny it is freedom of speech or freedom of religion? Not the bible. Christ said go and spread the good news if they refuse to listen wipe the dust from your feet and move on.

God doesn’t force anyone to believe in Him. God far more so gave us our free will, and so it’s up to anyone to believe or deny. You yourself quoted Mark 6,11, where Jesus says so.
And Jesus too said in Mt 19,12: “He who is able to receive this, let him receive it”.
OK; Jesus said this in a different connections - but it’s valid for all of our belief. Much is said in different coherences but relevant for all situations in our life.

It’s truly not a random thing to believe or not to believe, for we hear the consequences in John 3,18 and in John’s first letter 1John 5,10
He who believes in Him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
He who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. He who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne to his Son.

But all the same we are given the freedom to decide. This “freedom” however is slavery. Slavery of mind and slavery to the world who denies God - anything but freedom of mind. Atheists though tell the opposite. They think we are slaves of belief. But there’s a great big difference, for he who believes, does know the darkness and emptiness and loneliness of disbelieve. He who believes, is never alone. To miss this togetherness WITH GOD, to any believer is absolute horror! Disbelievers in their empty life, have to fill this emptiness with loud and lively life, because they don’t have any own life in them. Look at disbelievers, who in old age when death is not far, look back on their so very loud and even glamorous and rich life and would say: Was this all?! And their horror adds by the unsureness if God might exist after all and they where wrong. Oh, what a real horror!

Yours
Bruno

 

[rinnie]

God doesn’t force anyone to believe in Him. God far more so gave us our free will, and so it’s up to anyone to believe or deny. You yourself quoted Mark 6,11, where Jesus says so.
And Jesus too said in Mt 19,12: “He who is able to receive this, let him receive it”.
OK; Jesus said this in a different connections - but it’s valid for all of our belief. Much is said in different coherences but relevant for all situations in our life.

It’s truly not a random thing to believe or not to believe, for we hear the consequences in John 3,18 and in John’s first letter 1John 5,10
He who believes in Him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
He who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. He who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne to his Son.

But all the same we are given the freedom to decide. This “freedom” however is slavery. Slavery of mind and slavery to the world who denies God - anything but freedom of mind. Atheists though tell the opposite. They think we are slaves of belief. But there’s a great big difference, for he who believes, does know the darkness and emptiness and loneliness of disbelieve. He who believes, is never alone. To miss this togetherness WITH GOD, to any believer is absolute horror! Disbelievers in their empty life, have to fill this emptiness with loud and lively life, because they don’t have any own life in them. Look at disbelievers, who in old age when death is not far, look back on their so very loud and even glamorous and rich life and would say: Was this all?! And their horror adds by the unsureness if God might exist after all and they where wrong. Oh, what a real horror!

Yours
Bruno

Where did I say we did not have free will to believe and follow God or to refuse and walk away from him.

 

[tqualey]

Hi, BrunoMaria,

Of all the Gifts that God has given to mankind - the freedom to decide surely must rank at the top of the list!

It is our free will - combined with the Grace of God - that allows us to recieve God’s Word - and to receive it within the context that Christ intended - from within the Church He founded on Peter in Matt 16.

Great post!

God bless

God doesn’t force anyone to believe in Him. God far more so gave us our free will, and so it’s up to anyone to believe or deny. You yourself quoted Mark 6,11, where Jesus says so.
And Jesus too said in Mt 19,12: “He who is able to receive this, let him receive it”.
OK; Jesus said this in a different connections - but it’s valid for all of our belief. Much is said in different coherences but relevant for all situations in our life.

It’s truly not a random thing to believe or not to believe, for we hear the consequences in John 3,18 and in John’s first letter 1John 5,10
He who believes in Him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.
He who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. He who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne to his Son.

But all the same we are given the freedom to decide. This “freedom” however is slavery. Slavery of mind and slavery to the world who denies God - anything but freedom of mind. Atheists though tell the opposite. They think we are slaves of belief. But there’s a great big difference, for he who believes, does know the darkness and emptiness and loneliness of disbelieve. He who believes, is never alone. To miss this togetherness WITH GOD, to any believer is absolute horror! Disbelievers in their empty life, have to fill this emptiness with loud and lively life, because they don’t have any own life in them. Look at disbelievers, who in old age when death is not far, look back on their so very loud and even glamorous and rich life and would say: Was this all?! And their horror adds by the unsureness if God might exist after all and they where wrong. Oh, what a real horror!

Yours
Bruno

 

[BrunoMaria]

Thanks a lot. I very much wondered, if I expressed myself in a kind of correct English and understandable, when I wrote this sentence, which admittedly even in my home-language German, is not very easy to understand to many, and needs explanation:

But all the same we are given the freedom to decide. This “freedom” however is slavery. Slavery of mind and slavery to the world who denies God - anything but freedom of mind.<

But then I over and over notice, that deeply believing Catholics got a very much wider range of understanding than the rest of the world! Therefore it’s such a relaxation and pleasure to speak to believers. Here we find the REAL freedom ST. Paul speaks about in Rom 8,21 + 9,14 - 1Cor 6,12 - 8,1-13 - and mainly in 1Cor 3,17!
Match also Gal 2,4.
In GAl 4,8 ST. Paul points out, that disbelievers are slaves of their disbelieve.

The freedom of and in belief is underlined in many other biblical verses. All we must do, is to open ourselves to God - then understanding will be given to us.

Yours
Bruno

 

[DeSanto]

WOW!!! …is all I can say. I know this is totally off topic, but I have to share with you guys a quote from another thread. This comes from an “agnostic atheist” commenting on the motives of false prophets.

“First, to speak of motives implies that person exists. I’m not even certain there was a man named Jesus Christ claiming to be the son of God. If he did exist, there are many possible explanations. For one, he may have been delusional. For two, he may have enjoyed the power, wealth, and sex that comes from having believers. For three, maybe he’s a victim indoctrinated as a child.”

It saddens me to read such a comment, it is painfully obvious this person doens’t know the first thing about our Lord. Please pray for this person. He must be here at this website for a reason…let us pray this person sincerely seeks the Lord and that the Lord reveals Himself to this person.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I’m not even certain there was a man named Jesus Christ

Obviously not a history major and his exegesis into medical I would say is assumption based on no practical experience where logic lacks. Prayers indeed.

.

 

[rinnie]

Thanks a lot. I very much wondered, if I expressed myself in a kind of correct English and understandable, when I wrote this sentence, which admittedly even in my home-language German, is not very easy to understand to many, and needs explanation:

But all the same we are given the freedom to decide. This “freedom” however is slavery. Slavery of mind and slavery to the world who denies God - anything but freedom of mind.<

I agree with alot of what you are saying. We indeed have to open up oursleves to God and then wisdom and understanding will be given to us.

But we also have to remember that it is all by the Grace of God, and it is God and God only who gives us the grace for understanding when he feels we are ready to hear and truly understand these things.

While I agree with you, we must do our part and open up our minds and ours souls and our hearts, it is still when, and if that grace is given to us by God, we can receive it.

We must remember the scripture which ironically has been the scripture in Church for the last few weeks,that is, God gives us all different gifts, and we are called to use them to the best of our ability.

We know as Catholics to understand scripture on our own is quite imposible. We must look to the Church which is led by the power of the Holy Spirit to teach us the true meaning of the word of God.

But it is also, I believe, his grace that is given to us, in some point in time in our lives (which I feel is Gods way of showing us we are ready to hear the word) that we can not only receive it but learn to live it in our every day lives.

 

[BrunoMaria]

Well, at the time my “English” was even worse than today. So I revised my article of July 12 here:

Speaking to real and deeply believing Catholics we find a very much wider range of understanding than in the rest of the world and all others we know. Because they too know God it’s such a relaxation and pleasure to speak to believers. Just as when we meet someone and discover we got a common friend.
We as only ones of all other created species, are not only created in God’s likeness, but also are given a consciousness of self and free will. This free will becomes slavery to the world, if not used in divine terms – meaning in belief. Disbelievers are slaves of their disbelieve as St. Paul points out in Gal 4,8. He explains in Rom 8,21 + 9,14 - 1Cor 6,12 - 8,1-13 - and mainly in 1Cor 3,17. Match also Gal 2,4.
To find the freedom of and in belief – in contrary to the disbelievers slavery of „I don’t really know if there’s a God“ - is underlined in many other biblical verses. All we must do, is to open ourselves to God - then understanding will be given to us. He who sticks to doubts, will not find God’s grace to be even allowed to understand, as we read among others in John 12,37-40: Though Jesus had done so many signs before them, yet they did not believe in Him; it was that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed our report, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” Therefore they could not believe. For Isaiah again said: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they should see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and turn for me to heal them.”
Ans “so many signs” had been done to every living human being on earth too, for we all can realize God in all there is – in all the creation.

Yours
Bruno

 

[jerry_joseph]

**Tell me few incidents happened in pentecostal church in 9nth century. ?
**
:extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extrahappy: :extra:extrahappy:

 

[RobbyS]

Well, at the time my “English” was even worse than today. So I revised my article of July 12 here:

Speaking to real and deeply believing Catholics we find a very much wider range of understanding than in the rest of the world and all others we know. Because they too know God it’s such a relaxation and pleasure to speak to believers. Just as when we meet someone and discover we got a common friend.
We as only ones of all other created species, are not only created in God’s likeness, but also are given a consciousness of self and free will. This free will becomes slavery to the world, if not used in divine terms – meaning in belief. Disbelievers are slaves of their disbelieve as St. Paul points out in Gal 4,8. He explains in Rom 8,21 + 9,14 - 1Cor 6,12 - 8,1-13 - and mainly in 1Cor 3,17. Match also Gal 2,4.
To find the freedom of and in belief – in contrary to the disbelievers slavery of „I don’t really know if there’s a God“ - is underlined in many other biblical verses. All we must do, is to open ourselves to God - then understanding will be given to us. He who sticks to doubts, will not find God’s grace to be even allowed to understand, as we read among others in John 12,37-40: Though Jesus had done so many signs before them, yet they did not believe in Him; it was that the word spoken by the prophet Isaiah might be fulfilled: “Lord, who has believed our report, and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?” Therefore they could not believe. For Isaiah again said: “He has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, lest they should see with their eyes and perceive with their heart, and turn for me to heal them.”
Ans “so many signs” had been done to every living human being on earth too, for we all can realize God in all there is – in all the creation.

Yours
Bruno

In our age, Mary has assumed the role of an angel of God, fitting for the queen of angels, of warning us of the consequences of our infidelity. I think in particular, the apparition of Our Lady of LaSalette, where Our Lady wept for mankind. God knows what doom may come to us if we continue to follow the path to a Canaanite society, as the Israelites did during the age of the kings.

 

[Attejohannes]

I have made some specific questions regarding the veneration of Mary and got some answers, both as an official answer by an apologist and a couple of private messages.

Yes, I understand the Catholic standpoint, but I do not agree (no disrespect intended).

Some of the language of the prayers devoted to Mary (for example those of Alphonsus Liguori) in my mind exceeds the veneration that is proper to a Created being, however holy and sanctified. If this has not been the intention, as I have been told, then at least one should consider, what kind of an impression these phares make to someone like me (who comes from a different Denomination) or to someone coming from a totally different religion. I have heard that muslims in the early centuries thought that for Christians St. Mary was the third person of the Chrisitan Trinity.

In the first Lutheran Cathechisms the hail Mary was included, though without the final prayer for Mary’s intercession (accidentally, also the Orthodox, at least in Finland, leave the Intercession part away, when they sing Hail Mary in their liturgy; they have, though, great many direct request to Her in the other liturgical prayers). Luther personally apparently believed St. Mary’s Assumption, some claim - although he was not very specific about the matter - that he also considered the Immaculate conception as a possibility. However, he left these as opinions that one can or cannot adopt, they were not articles of Faith.

One of the stumbling blocks (and not the only one) that are between me and any eventual conversion to Roman Catholicism, would be a requirement to believe these late dogmas on the pain of my salvation. Since I do not, I would only add perjury to my already long list of sins.

 

[InigoMontoya]

This is for the Protestants who never knew much about our faith, and the true teaching’s of what our faith teaches on the Blessed Mother.

Has you changed your opinion any from the first time you started on this site, until now your feeling’s about her.

Is your understanding of what we really teach and what you thought we taught alot different?

Yes.

To some extent.

 

[DeSanto]

If you think of Mary as a saint you will find much more scriptural reference.

I think there is a reason Mary was not mentioned more in the bible. Perhaps it was intentional.

When pondering this subject, I am always reminded of these quotes by St. Louis De Montfort:

Because Mary remained hidden during her life she is called by the Holy Spirit and the Church “Alma Mater”, Mother hidden and unknown. So great was her humility that she desired nothing more upon earth than to remain unknown to herself and to others, and to be known only to God.

In answer to her prayers to remain hidden, poor and lowly, God was pleased to conceal her from nearly every other human creature in her conception, her birth, her life, her mysteries, her resurrection and assumption. Her own parents did not really know her; and the angels would often ask one another, “Who can she possibly be?”, for God had hidden her from them, or if he did reveal anything to them, it was nothing compared with what he withheld.

And the reference to the woman in Revelations:

Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

Assuming as rinnie stated earlier, this woman is in fact the Blessed Virgin Mary:

She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.* Her child was caught up to God and his throne.

Well, at least it’s something to consider.

I agree, there is much misinformation and many misconceptions regarding the BVM and many valid points made by non-catholics on this matter. I agree too that there are some catholics that may have a skewed view of veneration and perhaps elevated her to the point of worship or adoration. I believe there are many poorly catechized Catholics who would benefit from a renewed course at RCAI. Many of us don’t realize that the Church teaches children differently than adults and many have not taken responsibility to continue their studies as adults which can cause grave consequences. Asking these questions, I think, is a good thing. As a catholic, my studies on these matters have only resulted in strengthening my faith even more so and continue to do so.

Some demand biblical proof before they will believe. Some only need personal revelations. Much like one who experiences the power of prayer will utilize prayer more often. Many pray not knowing the power of prayer, yet they pray anyway. You don’t have to understand it for it to be true. Trust, Hope, Faith. Sometimes we have to trust that we don’t need to understand or that not all things should be understood.

In my experience, non-catholics see things like this: “Why should I go to Mary when I can go straight to the source?” This is a valid question. It seems they view Jesus as sitting on His throne, all alone, no one around but Him. They fear focusing on Mary will only create a distraction, take their eye off the ball, so to speak. I get that. I feel they are missing out though. They are missing out of the big picture. Not that they cannot find salvation without Mary but, that they don’t realize the saints and angels can and do participate in leading others to Him. Much as evangelicals do try to do so here on earth. Catholics see the entire Holy Family surrounding Our Lord, and all the saints and angels, participating in the works of salvation, and ministering to Our Lord. That His glory is magnified through them who are made perfect in Him. We too can be a part of this Holy Family (through the church, the body of Christ), all doing our part for the salvation of souls. There is much biblical reference for this and for the intercession of saints and angels.

I encourage non-catholics to view the Blesssed Virigin Mary in that light. As a Saint. See what biblical reference you can find for saints in scripture and count those also as a reference to Mary. And, I also encourage them to look at references to Mary as the New Eve as Jesus is the New Adam. And find reference to Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant and ponder the mysteries, why so much still remains hidden about the Ark and why so much remains hidden about Mary.

here are a couple references to get started should anyone be interested in the Catholic teachings on these matters…

youtube.com/watch?v=kCqHLPX2MDA

youtube.com/watch?v=pptXmZWa34M

Ultimately, I believe, for some, it will take a personal revelation to believe. Honestly, I don’t think it is imperative for those to whom it has not been revealed to pray to Mary in order to acheive salvation. Only for those to who it has been revealed and rejected should be concerned. It is the intentions in your heart that matter.

 

[Cinette]

If you think of Mary as a saint you will find much more scriptural reference.

I think there is a reason Mary was not mentioned more in the bible. Perhaps it was intentional.

When pondering this subject, I am always reminded of these quotes by St. Louis De Montfort:

Because Mary remained hidden during her life she is called by the Holy Spirit and the Church “Alma Mater”, Mother hidden and unknown. So great was her humility that she desired nothing more upon earth than to remain unknown to herself and to others, and to be known only to God.

In answer to her prayers to remain hidden, poor and lowly, God was pleased to conceal her from nearly every other human creature in her conception, her birth, her life, her mysteries, her resurrection and assumption. Her own parents did not really know her; and the angels would often ask one another, “Who can she possibly be?”, for God had hidden her from them, or if he did reveal anything to them, it was nothing compared with what he withheld.

And the reference to the woman in Revelations:

Then the woman fled into the wilderness where she had a place prepared by God, so that there she would be nourished for one thousand two hundred and sixty days.

The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.

Assuming as rinnie stated earlier, this woman is in fact the Blessed Virgin Mary:

She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.* Her child was caught up to God and his throne.

Well, at least it’s something to consider.

I agree, there is much misinformation and many misconceptions regarding the BVM and many valid points made by non-catholics on this matter. I agree too that there are some catholics that may have a skewed view of veneration and perhaps elevated her to the point of worship or adoration. I believe there are many poorly catechized Catholics who would benefit from a renewed course at RCAI. Many of us don’t realize that the Church teaches children differently than adults and many have not taken responsibility to continue their studies as adults which can cause grave consequences. Asking these questions, I think, is a good thing. As a catholic, my studies on these matters have only resulted in strengthening my faith even more so and continue to do so.

Some demand biblical proof before they will believe. Some only need personal revelations. Much like one who experiences the power of prayer will utilize prayer more often. Many pray not knowing the power of prayer, yet they pray anyway. You don’t have to understand it for it to be true. Trust, Hope, Faith. Sometimes we have to trust that we don’t need to understand or that not all things should be understood.

In my experience, non-catholics see things like this: “Why should I go to Mary when I can go straight to the source?” This is a valid question. It seems they view Jesus as sitting on His throne, all alone, no one around but Him. They fear focusing on Mary will only create a distraction, take their eye off the ball, so to speak. I get that. I feel they are missing out though. They are missing out of the big picture. Not that they cannot find salvation without Mary but, that they don’t realize the saints and angels can and do participate in leading others to Him. Much as evangelicals do try to do so here on earth. Catholics see the entire Holy Family surrounding Our Lord, and all the saints and angels, participating in the works of salvation, and ministering to Our Lord. That His glory is magnified through them who are made perfect in Him. We too can be a part of this Holy Family (through the church, the body of Christ), all doing our part for the salvation of souls. There is much biblical reference for this and for the intercession of saints and angels.

I encourage non-catholics to view the Blesssed Virigin Mary in that light. As a Saint. See what biblical reference you can find for saints in scripture and count those also as a reference to Mary. And, I also encourage them to look at references to Mary as the New Eve as Jesus is the New Adam. And find reference to Mary as the New Ark of the Covenant and ponder the mysteries, why so much still remains hidden about the Ark and why so much remains hidden about Mary.

here are a couple references to get started should anyone be interested in the Catholic teachings on these matters…

youtube.com/watch?v=kCqHLPX2MDA

youtube.com/watch?v=pptXmZWa34M

Ultimately, I believe, for some, it will take a personal revelation to believe. Honestly, I don’t think it is imperative for those to whom it has not been revealed to pray to Mary in order to acheive salvation. Only for those to who it has been revealed and rejected should be concerned. It is the intentions in your heart that matter.

*My husband who is a convert from atheism never had a problem with the Blessed Virgin and I wonder if the fact that he is Portuguese and she is so much part of the culture has anything to do with it! His conversion took place in later life and after a long time and a lot of reading and attending Mass with me for 11 years. Mother Mary is part of our lives and we pray rhe Rosary every day. How things can change!

Cinette*

 

[ufamtobie]

I’ve been here a few years now, and I understand better what Catholics believe, both in general and about Mary. It has been very helpful to me, and I enjoy my time here.

Before CAF, I knew nothing much outside of my own Baptist faith, having no Catholic friends or family. The Catholic church in our town doesn’t advertise anything at any time, they seem to be very small and low key, so no real outreach/education from there.

TC2,

“can’t ever see myself as a Catholic” You are here, that is a start, You must ask your self why does God truly want me to be here at this Catholic website.

Ufam Tobie

 

[ufamtobie]

I have learned not only about Mary and have scripture to back up her veneration I have also learned the sciptures for the belief of confession! I know I had read those scriptures before and I dont understand why I did not see them. I am now studying “One Church”
Thanks for your wonderful posts that aid so much in my search for truth!

IndeedGod,

CONGRATULATION!!!

Ufam Tobie