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Kliska
Guest
Amen. lol
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aidanbradypop
Guest
This is not a Southern Baptist church lolAmen. lol
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Stilldreamn
Guest
He forgot to add “instrumental music” to #14. That’s included in this list which is a favorite of a lot of anti-Catholic blogs/websites. If he has a problem with infant baptism, confession, “sprinkling” etc, he is hardly Lutheran.
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aidanbradypop
Guest
lol
I have heard that the LCMC are about as far from Lutheranism one can be while still being “Lutheran”
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SoMissCatholic
Guest
I don’t have time to respond to all of the points right now, but wanted to address one that I recently posted about in another thread.
First though, I would point out that based on several of the questions it appears your friend is suffering from what I call “protestant either/or -ism,” where, because the Bible says one thing, it is interpreted as being to the exclusion to everything else when such a reading is simply not present in the text. For example, take question #3. While 1 Peter 2 does present the teaching of the concept of the priesthood of all believers, no where does it say that there is not also a ministerial priesthood passed on through the laying on of hands. In fact we see that there is such a ministerial priesthood in other verses, e.g. 1 Tim. 4:14, 5:22. That is the problem with “proof texting” where a passage is taken out of context and not considered in light of the whole revelation of scripture. Therefore, I would submit that the better approach is the Catholic “both/and” approach. We believe in both the priesthood of all believers and the ministerial priesthood. We believe in both baptism by immersion and by pouring/sprinkling. We believe in both that Christ is the one mediator and that He shares that mediator role with the angels and saints in heaven and on earth through intercessory prayer for one another (which the Bible explicitly instructs us to pray for one another, e.g. James 5:16, in itself a type of mediation). I think this approach is more true to the overall meaning of the entire text.
As to #12, I addressed this recently in another post:
If we look at the entire discourse instead of stopping at verse 27, we see that Jesus singles out St. Peter as the leader of the apostles in this discourse:
Luke 22:24-32 (NAB):
First, looking at verses 25-27 we can see that the “among you it shall not be so” does not mean that there will not be a leader of the apostles as Jesus clearly speaks of “the leader” using the definite article. This indicates that there is indeed to be a leader among the apostles. What Jesus is saying is not that there is to be no leader of the apostles, but that the one who is the leader will not “lord it over them.” Rather this leader is to be “as the servant,” just as Jesus, who is clearly the leader of His apostles, is “among [them] as the one who serves.” We see Jesus put this exhortation in to action in John 13:1-17 when He washes the disciples’ feet (both the speech in Luke and the washing of the feet in John occur at the last supper).
Next, in verses 28-30, Jesus confers on the twelve a share in His kingdom, placing them in positions of authority to judge “the twelve tribes of Israel” (which under the New Covenant includes both Jew and Gentile). Finally, in verses 31 and 32, after having conferred His kingdom on all of the apostles, Jesus singles out Peter and instructs him to strengthen his brothers in the face of the coming attacks from the devil. This instruction to “strengthen your brothers” is clearly a servant role. Peter, as the leader of the apostles, is to serve the other apostles by strengthening them. We see this in action down to today in the papal office. This is why one of the Pope’s titles is “Servant of the Servants of God.”
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FathersKnowBest
Guest
If you re-define terms, then I guess I’m forced to agree with you. Using your terms.
You DO know this is anti-biblical, do you not?
1Th 5:12 But we beseech you, brethren, to respect those who labor among you and are over you in the Lord and admonish you,
Php 2:29 So receive him in the Lord with all joy; and honor such men,
30 for he nearly died for the work of Christ, risking his life to complete your service to me
Ro 13:7 Pay all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due.
You really need to re-evaluate your beliefs.
So, you never pray for one another?
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aidanbradypop
Guest
Thanks for all that. I already kind of had the same talk with him…but you know lol
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Kliska
Guest
Amen to that too. roflThis is not a Southern Baptist church lol
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SoMissCatholic
Guest
Indeed I do.
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ajecphotos
Guest
As long as one believes in Jesus, God etc and loves God and leads a sinless life I believe that Heaven is open to everyone. You don’t have to be ‘Catholic’ to enter heaven.
God loves all his creatures. God is all loving. God wants us all to be like him. I love god!
God loves all his creatures. God is all loving. God wants us all to be like him. I love god!
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
Sure,
Where does the Bible include a list of the books that it needs to have?
Where does the Bible say that Itself is the sole rule of faith?
Where does the Bible say that all practices of the Church are to be included only in the Bible?
It seems your friend started on the wrong premise
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
And I forgot to add:
Where are the original manuscripts of the Bible?
Was your friend given private revelation as to what books are to be included in the Bible?
or
Is your friend relying on the testimony of man?
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Okay. Well, pass these on to your friend for me, and invite him to stop by the forum…I’d love to chat with him:No
John 14: 16-17, 26: “I will ask the Father and he will give you another Paraclete—to be with you always; the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot accept, since it neither sees him nor recognizes him because he remains with you and will be within you . . . . the Paraclete, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send will remind you of all that I have told you”
John 16:14: “When the Spirit of truth comes He will guide you to all truth”
Luke 10:16: “He who hears you, hears me”
Mt. 16:19: I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven
Matthew 23:1-3: Then said Jesus to the crowds and to his disciples, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.
(**NOTE - Just as the scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, the Pope sits on the chair of Peter. And notice how Jesus told everyone to obey the scribes and the Pharisees, even though they were sinners. Just so, we have to obey the Pope in matters of faith and morals in the Church, even if the Pope is a sinner).
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Randy_Carson
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Kliska-Amen. lol
You do know that every one of those things can be easily answered by Catholics, right?
I mean, those are beginner-level apologetics quesions…
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Kliska
Guest
I understand Roman Catholics have answers to them that they think covers them, yes. Do I believe it covers them logically and accurately? No, or else I’d be a lot closer to being Roman Catholic. I have read and studied RC apologetics extensively (yes, by RC authors) and am still protestant.Kliska-
You do know that every one of those things can be easily answered by Catholics, right?
I mean, those are beginner-level apologetics quesions…
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Croc
Guest
As a non-catholic, I find too many differences between the 2 faiths.
The main one is Supremacy of Christ, the second one is the authority of the Word of God.
Being a protestant does not imply protesting against God, but protesting against a teaching that is questionable.
Catholics have Mary as the link between mankind and Jesus (no scriptural basis)
Protestants go to Jesus directly (supported by the Scripture; 'I am the Way the truth and the Life, no-one goes to the Father except by Me - Jesus)
Catholics use dogmas to authenticate their beliefs.
Protestants use the inspired Word of God only to authenticate their beliefs.
Catholics venerate Mary, Angels and saints in addition to God.
Protestants worship God as outlined in the Bible (Father, Son & Holy Spirit)
Catholics highly exalt Mary. In all prayers and oaths, Mary is invoked together with God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. She’s kind of part of the God-head.
Protestants consider Mary as any other humankind who’ll be saved by the grace of God
Catholics regard pope as the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Protestants regard Christ Himself as the head of the Church. Bishops are servants of God.
The list of the pertinent differences is long. It just exemplifies how different the 2 faiths are and why protestants cannot be Catholics unless there is a council like that of Nicene that came up with the Nicene Creed.
The main one is Supremacy of Christ, the second one is the authority of the Word of God.
Being a protestant does not imply protesting against God, but protesting against a teaching that is questionable.
Catholics have Mary as the link between mankind and Jesus (no scriptural basis)
Protestants go to Jesus directly (supported by the Scripture; 'I am the Way the truth and the Life, no-one goes to the Father except by Me - Jesus)
Catholics use dogmas to authenticate their beliefs.
Protestants use the inspired Word of God only to authenticate their beliefs.
Catholics venerate Mary, Angels and saints in addition to God.
Protestants worship God as outlined in the Bible (Father, Son & Holy Spirit)
Catholics highly exalt Mary. In all prayers and oaths, Mary is invoked together with God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. She’s kind of part of the God-head.
Protestants consider Mary as any other humankind who’ll be saved by the grace of God
Catholics regard pope as the Vicar of Christ on earth.
Protestants regard Christ Himself as the head of the Church. Bishops are servants of God.
The list of the pertinent differences is long. It just exemplifies how different the 2 faiths are and why protestants cannot be Catholics unless there is a council like that of Nicene that came up with the Nicene Creed.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
What do Catholics hold as Supreme?
What do Catholics believe about the authority of the Word of God?
Catholics don’t have Mary as the link.
Nope. A dogma is divinely revealed truth. Where do they come from? The Word of God.
Yep. Catholics venerate Mary. They also worship God. Veneration and worship are two different things, and you need to learn the difference.
Nope. Mary is not part of the God-head.
Jesus is the head of the Church. The pope is the vicar of Christ on earth. Do you know what “vicar” means? Since Jesus is the Good Shepherd (one Flock, one shepherd) AND He told Peter to watch the flock for Him after He ascended, then it is logical that Peter is the vicarious shepherd of the flock on earth. That’s pure scripture, my friend.
The list of misunderstandings is long…that’s for sure.
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Randy_Carson
Guest
Good. Hang in there…it takes longer for the seeds to sprout with some folks.I understand Roman Catholics have answers to them that they think covers them, yes. Do I believe it covers them logically and accurately? No, or else I’d be a lot closer to being Roman Catholic. I have read and studied RC apologetics extensively (yes, by RC authors) and am still protestant.
However, If you and I sat down in a coffee shop with our bibles in hand for one hour, I think you would be more impressed with Catholic Answers than you seem to be in these threads.
But I’m curious, what Catholic authors have you read and what books do you own?
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Croc
Guest
The belief that Roman Catholic was the Original Church is completely erroneous.
During the time of Christ, the Romans had their own state religion, and the Emperor was the Pontiff Maximus and he could offer sacrifices to gods. Also the Romans had assimilated many deities from other places especially Greece; for every Greek deity, there was an equivalent in Rome eg Zeus of Greece = Apollo of Rome.
Christians were greatly hated by the Roman Emperors. The reason was because they preached against the pagan worship of the Romans. In AD 68, Emperor Nero persecuted many Christians including the apostles. Most of them were burned alive or allowed to be ravaged by wild animals. Jerusalem was besieged and destroyed completely in AD70 and the original Christianity almost got decimated.This is why the belief that Roman Catholic was the Original Church is incorrect.
Roman Catholicism in its current form started in AD312 when Emperor Constantine was inspired to use the Christian Cross as a symbol in his battle. When he won the battle, he owed the victory to the god of Christians. The Romans believed in many gods and goddesses and so he thought its one of the superior gods. Thus, he legalized Christianity and elevated it to equal the state religion though he still remained a pagan.
The new State religion required systems of worship. The few Christians who had survived the great persecution could not handle the Empire-wide transition. So, all the pagan priests of all kinds were called upon to leave their religion and form the new State Religion of the Roman Empire. They did the best they knew-how and formed the Roman Catholic Church for the Roman Empire.
The title ‘Pope’ was in use even before Christianity and was conferred to the high Priest of the Church of Rome. Later, the Title of the Emperor, “Pontiff Maximus” was given to the pope as the most senior Priest who could offer sacrifices to the gods of Rome.
Thus, there is a long history behind the Roman State Religion (Catholic) than what is simply said and believed.
During the time of Christ, the Romans had their own state religion, and the Emperor was the Pontiff Maximus and he could offer sacrifices to gods. Also the Romans had assimilated many deities from other places especially Greece; for every Greek deity, there was an equivalent in Rome eg Zeus of Greece = Apollo of Rome.
Christians were greatly hated by the Roman Emperors. The reason was because they preached against the pagan worship of the Romans. In AD 68, Emperor Nero persecuted many Christians including the apostles. Most of them were burned alive or allowed to be ravaged by wild animals. Jerusalem was besieged and destroyed completely in AD70 and the original Christianity almost got decimated.This is why the belief that Roman Catholic was the Original Church is incorrect.
Roman Catholicism in its current form started in AD312 when Emperor Constantine was inspired to use the Christian Cross as a symbol in his battle. When he won the battle, he owed the victory to the god of Christians. The Romans believed in many gods and goddesses and so he thought its one of the superior gods. Thus, he legalized Christianity and elevated it to equal the state religion though he still remained a pagan.
The new State religion required systems of worship. The few Christians who had survived the great persecution could not handle the Empire-wide transition. So, all the pagan priests of all kinds were called upon to leave their religion and form the new State Religion of the Roman Empire. They did the best they knew-how and formed the Roman Catholic Church for the Roman Empire.
The title ‘Pope’ was in use even before Christianity and was conferred to the high Priest of the Church of Rome. Later, the Title of the Emperor, “Pontiff Maximus” was given to the pope as the most senior Priest who could offer sacrifices to the gods of Rome.
Thus, there is a long history behind the Roman State Religion (Catholic) than what is simply said and believed.
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Croc
Guest
Then where is the difference?
I wonder if you found Christ, the principal theme of the Bible.
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