Protestants, why are you not Catholic?

[adrift]

Thanks for your replies:

Just a quick note: how many saints are canonized in the Catholic Church? Very few compared to the overall population. Every born-again Christian is declared a saint and priest.

You are aware I hope that anyone in heaven is a Saint and we honor them on All Saints Day. Being married to a Catholic I thought you would know this as it is a Holy Day of Obligation

For the Nazarene church and many other Protestant churches, we have administrative leaders, but the spiritual head is Jesus Christ. We have no Vicar of God.

Jesus is our Spiritual head too.

Paul asked for the prayers of those still physically alive around him. He did not ask for the prayers of those already with the Lord. We do the same.

Jesus said that God was for the living not the dead. Jesus spoke to Abraham and Elijah who were not dead but alive in God.

I know that I am forgiven as Jesus does say He is the only mediator between God and us.

Where does it say to go directly to Jesus to have sins forgiven? Jesus does give the power to forgive sins to the Apostles.

23 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

Why didn’t Jesus just say come to Me and I will forgive your sins? Why did He give the apostles this power?

The veil was torn. The need for priests was eliminated with Jesus sacrifice.

The old covenant was replaced with the new but why than did Jesus choose the Apostles? Why not just disciples?

Thanks for correcting my spelling. I am horrible at spelling.

I am too that is why a spell check for me is a must but sometimes I am in a hurry and forget to use it. I had to check out your spelling because I wasn’t sure.

In all God’s love to you.

For you the same.

 

[drblank1]

MommaduckofMany:
Again, we have not Vicar of God. Yes we have spiritual leaders within the church. But the head of my church is Jesus. The pope is the Catholic Vicar of God. It is engraved on his throne.

Those “missing books” are widely rejected as inspired books. The Jewish people are declared the Oracle of the OT. And they reject those books as inspired of God. Those books are riddled with mistakes and contradictions to the harmony of the Bible. They do hold value, but should not be considered canon.

I do understand what a priest is. I’ve studied the OT enough to understand that role. Do you not agree that you can get down on your knees at anytime and ask God to forgive your sins? Do you not agree that a sinner can profess their faith in Jesus Christ all alone in their bedroom? Priests were needed for the sacrificial system and Jesus’ perfect sacrifice ended the need for that system. That is why He declares all true believes as priests and He as our High Priest.

There is no mediator between us and God, except for that of Jesus.

Thanks.

 

[stewstew03]

…

For the Nazarene church and many other Protestant churches, we have administrative leaders, but the spiritual head is Jesus Christ. We have no Vicar of God.

…

Lots of issues in your posts, drblank1. Question for you: why did you choose to join the Nazarene church over… the Lutheran church (or any other denomination)?

 

[stewstew03]

…
Those “missing books” are widely rejected as inspired books. The Jewish people are declared the Oracle of the OT. And they reject those books as inspired of God. Those books are riddled with mistakes and contradictions to the harmony of the Bible. They do hold value, but should not be considered canon.
…

Why do you follow a Jewish Tradition? Do you not hold to Sola Scriptura?

 

[MommaduckofMany]

Do you not agree that you can get down on your knees at anytime and ask God to forgive your sins? Do you not agree that a sinner can profess their faith in Jesus Christ all alone in their bedroom?

EVERY Catholic I know believes they can ask for forgiveness from God at anytime and anywhere. You do not understand the Sacrament of Confession if you think Catholics and Orthodox ONLY ask forgiveness in the presence of a priest.

 

[drblank1]

You are aware I hope that anyone in heaven is a Saint and we honor them on All Saints Day. Being married to a Catholic I thought you would know this as it is a Holy Day of Obligation.

A Catholic tradition. But do you not agree that as the apostles wrote numerous times that we are all saints? Just as in Revelations 8:4, the saints prayers raise to heaven with the smoke of the incense.
Jesus is our Spiritual head too.

Jesus said that God was for the living not the dead. Jesus spoke to Abraham and Elijah who were not dead but alive in God.

It does not say that Jesus summonded them. God sent them as messengers to prepare Jesus for his coming tasks.

Where does it say to go directly to Jesus to have sins forgiven? Jesus does give the power to forgive sins to the Apostles.
Why didn’t Jesus just say come to Me and I will forgive your sins? Why did He give the apostles this power?

There were so many instances where he did direclty forgive the sins of many within his walk here on earth. Other reasons I paraphased before: John 14:6, Hebrews 14:6. 1 Timothy 2:5.

The old covenant was replaced with the new but why than did Jesus choose the Apostles? Why not just disciples? We all start out as disciples. And we all should grow into apostles. The great commision was given to all believers.

I am too that is why a spell check for me is a must but sometimes I am in a hurry and forget to use it. I had to check out your spelling because I wasn’t sure.

For you the same.

 

[drblank1]

EVERY Catholic I know believes they can ask for forgiveness from God at anytime and anywhere. You do not understand the Sacrament of Confession if you think Catholics and Orthodox ONLY ask forgiveness in the presence of a priest.

Don’t get me wrong. I was just answering what the question of this thread. I do not hold in contempt any Catholic traditions that do not contradict the Word of God. But it is a Catholic sacrement.

 

[MommaduckofMany]

Don’t get me wrong. I was just answering what the question of this thread. I do not hold in contempt any Catholic traditions that do not contradict the Word of God. But it is a Catholic sacrement.

Yes, it is a Catholic Sacrament (and an Orthodox one). That does NOT mean that we cannot ask God to forgive us at other times.

 

[drblank1]

Why do you follow a Jewish Tradition? Do you not hold to Sola Scriptura?

Yes, which is the Word of God is our chief Authority. The debate on whether the Apocrypha should be included in the OT is not the same. Although we are not bound by the OT Law, the OT is still just as inspired and valid as a teaching tool today as it was before Jesus.

 

[stewstew03]

Don’t get me wrong. I was just answering what the question of this thread. I do not hold in contempt any Catholic traditions that do not contradict the Word of God. But it is a Catholic sacrement.

Speaking of traditions… I asked earlier: Why do you follow a Jewish Tradition?

 

[drblank1]

Speaking of traditions… I asked earlier: Why do you follow a Jewish Tradition?

I was trying to get to your question.

Although we are not bound by the OT Law, the OT is still just as inspired and valid as a teaching tool today as it was before Jesus. Please keep in mind that when I speak of tradition, I am speaking of man-made things. The fact that the Jewish people are the Oracle of the OT is Biblical fact.

 

[MommaduckofMany]

I was trying to get to your question.

Although we are not bound by the OT Law, the OT is still just as inspired and valid as a teaching tool today as it was before Jesus. Please keep in mind that when I speak of tradition, I am speaking of man-made things. The fact that the Jewish people are the Oracle of the OT is Biblical fact.

Why are you not Jewish?

 

[drblank1]

Why are you not Jewish?

We are all derivatives of the Jewish religion, are we not.

 

[adrift]

Again, we have not Vicar of God. ]Yes we have spiritual leaders within the church. But the head of my church is Jesus. The pope is the Catholic Vicar of God. It is engraved on his throne.

You are incorrect. I can’t blame you on mentioning throne as you are unaware that the current pope has replaced it with a simple chair. However, you have the wrong phrase. It isn’t Vicar of God but Vicar of Christ

The Pope, visible head of the Church on earth, acting for and in the place of Christ. He possesses supreme ecclesiastical authority in the Catholic church. This title for the Pope dates from at least the eighth century and gradually replaced the former title, “Vicar of St. Peter.” Its biblical basis is Christ’s commission of Peter to “feed my lambs, feed my sheep” (John 21:15-17).

Those “missing books” are widely rejected as inspired books. The Jewish people are declared the Oracle of the OT. And they reject those books as inspired of God. Those books are riddled with mistakes and contradictions to the harmony of the Bible. They do hold value, but should not be considered canon.

The Jews didn’t even finalize their canon until after Jesus. My belief is they no longer had any authority. The Jews also reject the New Testament. One of the reasons that some books were rejected was that no Hebrew text could be found which became untrue with the Dead Sea Scrolls. Please start a thread with the supposed mistakes and contradictions. I would point out that the same is said about the New Testament.

I do understand what a priest is. I’ve studied the OT enough to understand that role. Do you not agree that you can get down on your knees at anytime and ask God to forgive your sins?

Yep but can I know that I am forgiven? Can I know that my repentance is perfect? Perfect meaning that I have no attachment to that sin? Going to the Sacrament means that my human nature does not have to be perfect.

Do you not agree that a sinner can profess their faith in Jesus Christ all alone in their bedroom?

Do you really believe that Catholic and others don’t pray in private? You haven’t answered why Jesus gave the Apostles the power to forgive sins if they could go directly to Jesus?

Priests were needed for the sacrificial system and Jesus’ perfect sacrifice ended the need for that system. That is why He declares all true believes as priests and He as our High Priest.

I will ask again Why than did Jesus choose the Apostles? Why not just disciples?.
Jesus said He came not to destroy but fulfill. All the sacraments can be found in the Old Testament and their fulfillment in the New. The priesthood is no different. God didn’t have the priest to just end them. He fulfilled the priesthood.

PriestAn authorized mediator who offers a true sacrifice in acknowledgment of God’s supreme dominion over human beings and in expiation for their sins. A priest’s mediation is the reverse of that of a prophet, who communicates from God to the people. A priest mediates from the people to God.

Christ, who is God and man, is the first, last, and greatest priest of the New Law. He is the eternal high priest who offered himself once and for all on the Cross, a victim of infinite value, and he continually renews that sacrifice on the altar through the ministry of the Church.

Within the Church men who are specially ordained as priests to consecrate and offer the body and blood of Christ in the Mass. The Apostles were the first ordained priests, when on Holy Thursday night Christ told them to do in his memory what he had just done at the Last Supper. All priests and bishops trace their ordination to the Apostles. Their second essential priestly power, to forgive sins, was conferred by Christ on Easter Sunday, when he told the Apostles, “For those whose sins you forgive, they are forgiven; for those whose sins you retain, they are retained” (John 20-22,23).

All the Christian faithful, however, also share in the priesthood by their baptismal character. They are enabled to offer themselves in sacrifice with Christ through the Eucharistic liturgy. They offer the Mass in the sense that they internally unite themselves with the outward offering made by the ordained priest alone.

.

There is no mediator between us and God, except for that of Jesus.

Thanks.

Catholic don’t claim differently we just believe that as a Communion of Saints we pray for each other through Jesus who is our mediator to God

 

[drblank1]

Lots of issues in your posts, drblank1. Question for you: why did you choose to join the Nazarene church over… the Lutheran church (or any other denomination)?

I did. Yes, the doctrine of most of the Protestant churches that I would attend are Biblically based and inline with each other. But each church is a little different in their focuses. The Nazarene is very mission-oriented and I felt God moving me in that direction.

 

[adrift]

post

You are aware I hope that anyone in heaven is a Saint and we honor them on All Saints Day. Being married to a Catholic I thought you would know this as it is a Holy Day of Obligation.

A Catholic tradition. But do you not agree that as the apostles wrote numerous times that we are all saints? Just as in Revelations 8:4, the saints prayers raise to heaven with the smoke of the incense.
Jesus is our Spiritual head too.
I was answering your statement “Just a quick note: how many saints are canonized in the Catholic Church?”
I guess you missed the point that not all saints we honor are canonized.

Jesus said that God was for the living not the dead. Jesus spoke to Abraham and Elijah who were not dead but alive in God.

It does not say that Jesus summonded them. God sent them as messengers to prepare Jesus for his coming tasks.

What does your answer have to do with the point that God is not the God of the dead but of the living which means that those who are with Him in heaven are not dead. The reason you gave that you can ask people you know to pray for you is because they aren’t dead. My answer is neither are those who are in heaven.

Where does it say to go directly to Jesus to have sins forgiven? Jesus does give the power to forgive sins to the Apostles.
Why didn’t Jesus just say come to Me and I will forgive your sins? Why did He give the apostles this power? There were so many instances where he did directly forgive the sins of many within his walk here on earth. Other reasons I paraphased before: John 14:6, Hebrews 14:6. 1 Timothy 2:5.

Jesus forgave sins but it doesn’t answer my questions.
None of your scripture answers my question of why did Jesus tell the apostles they could forgive sins. By the way, my bible only had 13 chapters in Hebrews.

The old covenant was replaced with the new but why than did Jesus choose the Apostles? Why not just disciples? We all start out as disciples. And we all should grow into apostles. The great commision was given to all believers.

This is an evasive answer. When we speak of Apostles it is to the 12 that Jesus chose. The 12 who He told that they could forgive sins, the 12 that He instructed to “Do this in Memory of Me”.

 

[batman1973]

Lol, so we are moving from French Catholics to Bible Belt Catholics?



I think we are more motley than the Anglicans

@GKC - a motley challenge!

Snicker Bible belt Catholics. C’mon down to “Our Lady of the Big Belt Buckle” We have ourselves a right nice BBQ potluck after service!

 

[drblank1]

You are incorrect. I can’t blame you on mentioning throne as you are unaware that the current pope has replaced it with a simple chair. However, you have the wrong phrase. It isn’t Vicar of God but Vicar of Christ

Thanks for correcting me about the Pope’s chair. What a humble man. And sorry, yes, Vicar of Christ.

The Jews didn’t even finalize their canon until after Jesus. My belief is they no longer had any authority. The Jews also reject the New Testament. One of the reasons that some books were rejected was that no Hebrew text could be found which became untrue with the Dead Sea Scrolls. Please start a thread with the supposed mistakes and contradictions. I would point out that the same is said about the New Testament.

That is not correct. The Jews closed the canon on the OT in the 5th century BC after Ezra, Nehemiah, and Malachi. Those books were inserted by Greek-Jews and were specifically excluded by the Jewish Council (can’t remember the council’s name) in 90 AD. And you overlook that fact they are riddle with mistakes and contridictions to the harmony of the Bible.

Jews are declared the oracles of the OT in Roman 3:1,2.

Yep but can I know that I am forgiven? Can I know that my repentance is perfect? Perfect meaning that I have no attachment to that sin? Going to the Sacrament means that my human nature does not have to be perfect.

Repentance to be honored by God requires a true change of heart. A priest cannot know if someone has a true change of heart. I have Catholic friends who have gone to confession out of obligation and not true heart. How do I know? They told me and they believe that was sufficient. But they were declared forgiven of their sins. How does that work? I’m not saying a Catholic cannot go to confession and not be forgiven your sins, but how does a priest declare someone forgiven without true repentance.

Do you really believe that Catholic and others don’t pray in private? You haven’t answered why Jesus gave the Apostles the power to forgive sins if they could go directly to Jesus?

I will ask again Why than did Jesus choose the Apostles? Why not just disciples?.
Jesus said He came not to destroy but fulfill. All the sacraments can be found in the Old Testament and their fulfillment in the New. The priesthood is no different. God didn’t have the priest to just end them. He fulfilled the priesthood.
.
Jesus was leaving the earth physically but promised God would be with the apostles in the person of the Holy Spirit living in them. As they proclaimed the gospel, they could honestly tell people who believed in that message that their sins were forgiven, and they could honestly tell people that did not believe in the message that their sins were not forgiven and that they stand condemned in God’s eyes. He didn’t give them the power to forgive sins (only God can do that). You must read John 21-23, not just 23 to understand what Jesus meant.

Catholic don’t claim differently we just believe that as a Communion of Saints we pray for each other through Jesus who is our mediator to God

 

[Kliska]

This describes my conversion experience. How can the Holy Spirit simultaneously lead me to the Catholic Church, while leading you to draw different conclusions about the Church?

All I can offer is that if you felt drawn there, there is a reason. I’ve had several really good conversations with Catholics that hold to a view that is closer to protestant thought, but they truly feel compelled to stay within the RCC by the Holy Spirit. They ask me what they should do, and I would say the same; if that is what He is truly telling you to do, then stay. If anyone, myself included, is lead toward a situation or a certain church, they should do as the Holy Spirit leads, but the key is to be sure of that for ourselves.

I do think it is important to note I don’t think any of us believes that the Holy Spirit would contradict Himself, such as telling someone that for them thievery, murder, adultery, etc… is ok.

 

[PRmerger]

There is no mediator between us and God, except for that of Jesus.

Thanks.

Then, I suppose, your Nazarene pastor never asks for the congregation to pray for one another?

For would that not put individuals in your church as mediators?