Protestants, why are you not Catholic?

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You need to make sure of what you are teaching, as James the head of the church issues guidelines after the gathering in Jerusalem for converts and one of those guidelines is to not imbibe in blood. That is in the NT.
From catholic.com:

The mention of not eating blood in Acts 15:20, 29 was a pastoral provision suggested by James to keep Jews from being scandalized by the conduct of Gentile Christians. We know that these pastoral provisions were only temporary. One concerned abstaining from idol meat, yet later Paul says eating idol meat is okay so long as it doesn’t scandalize others (Rom 14:1-14, 1 Cor 8:1-13).
 
drblank, the prayer of the saints is one of the most common topic to attack or criticized the Catholic church, I don’t doubt that you are a great guy, like you my wife is attending another church, sometimes we have discussions, with the point where is that in the Bible you guys seems to be the winners, I mean it is really easy to say show me where is that in the Bible if I don’t see it is your church is wrong, again I Believe and I can be wrong, that the Bible were give to us to live as Christians, to listen the Word of God, to apply those teachings to our personal life, example, be a good day, good friend, etc… Respect and Honor God and everything we do, do it in the name of Jesus, there is not place on the bible where it say, you will get the word of God and you will open churches, if go to that, that is maybe so many times that church may have, that is not in the Bible. maybe lights, ministries, child care for the kids, cafeteria, Library, school, you can name it. so again If the Bible is the only rule of faith which your church is the real one, why we have Calvary chapel, Church by glades, Lakewood church, first Methodist, christian fellowship, community Christian, etc etc etc…
Christ’s church is not limited by the bounds of any church (including the Catholic church). There are many different churches because Christ freed us from the Law of th OT. I can tell you with all certainty that my church (the entire denomination - not just my local church) is inspired of the Holy Spirit. Does it mean we are lesser of a church or do not have the absolute highest connection with God, because we are not considered withn the legalistic bounds of the Catholic church or its belief. As say to you no because the Holy Spirit is not bound by the Catholic church, nor my church.
 
You need to make sure of what you are teaching, as James the head of the church issues guidelines after the gathering in Jerusalem for converts and one of those guidelines is to not imbibe in blood. That is in the NT.
Just another point of clarification: James was the head of the church in Jerusalem. That is, the bishop there.

But Peter was the head of the entire Catholic Church.
 
Christ’s church is not limited by the bounds of any church (including the Catholic church).
This is very Catholic. If you are baptized in the trinitarian formula, using water, then you are a member of our Catholic church, although imperfectly joined to us.
There are many different churches because Christ freed us from the Law of th OT. I can tell you with all certainty that my church (the entire denomination - not just my local church) is inspired of the Holy Spirit. Does it mean we are lesser of a church or do not have the absolute highest connection with God, because we are not considered withn the legalistic bounds of the Catholic church or its belief. As say to you no because the Holy Spirit is not bound by the Catholic church, nor my church.
What about a Christian church that says that we must obey the laws of the OT? Are they also filled with the Holy Spirit, drblank?
 
This is, indeed, very Catholic.

Where you have gone wrong, however, is to exclude a whole other channel of God’s Word: Sacred Tradition.

And yet you contradict yourself here. Either your faith is based wholy on the Bible, or some on the Bible and some on tradition. There are some traditions not supported by the Bible.

And remember, it was Sacred Tradition which gave you the 27 book canon of the NT.
It was the Holy Spirit which guided man and provided us the Bible. Not tradition.
 
It was the Holy Spirit which guided man and provided us the Bible.
This is very Catholic! 👍
Not tradition.
What is Tradition but the Holy Spirit guiding the bishops of the Church?

Unless you believe that the Bible floated down from heaven, leather-bound (and in KJV), upon the wings of a dove, then you have to acknowledge that God used men, Catholic men, Catholic bishops to be exact, to give you your Bible.
 
It was the Holy Spirit which guided man and provided us the Bible. Not tradition.
Who did he guide to determine which books should be in the bible?

The bishops and Popes of the Catholic church that’s who
 
And yet you contradict yourself here. Either your faith is based wholy on the Bible, or some on the Bible and some on tradition. There are some traditions not supported by the Bible.
Please do not nest your responses, drblank. They do not appear in my responses, unless I cut and paste.

Please learn how to respond correctly in the link I already provided.

As far as my faith being based wholly on the Bible–that is incorrect. The Catholic faith was WHOLE and ENTIRE** before a single word of the NT was ever put to writ.**

Thus, our faith is not based on the Bible, but rather the Bible reflects the Catholic faith, given once for all, to the saints.

And as far as some traditions not supported by the Bible–well, if you mean by tradition, “custom”, then, ok. But then I’m sure your church has some “customs” also not supported by the Bible. (I’ll give you two but I could list a myriad of different customs not supported by the Bible that many Protestants engage in: exchanging wedding rings in front of an altar or minister–not found in the Bible. Having a Monday night Bible study–not found in the Bible). So be careful if you are talking about it being bad to have some customs not supported by the Bible, or you will have to stop doing a whole bunch of stuff at your church.

Now, if you mean that there is some Sacred Tradition that is not supported by the Bible, can you provide us with one or two of those?
 
To clarify, Jesus Himself in Revelation uses terms of multiple churches; "to the seven churches.’ We also recite the Apostles creed and believe in one holy and apostolic church but it apparently was indeed the custom of Jesus and John to call them multiple churches, as that is their organization. The different churches in the Orthodox branch do have different canon from what I can see; is that not true?
Different from each other? No. Do the OO have a different canon? Possibly. It might also be broken up differently. Multiple parishes, one Church, one Faith.
 
You need to make sure of what you are teaching, as James the head of the church issues guidelines after the gathering in Jerusalem for converts and one of those guidelines is to not imbibe in blood. That is in the NT.
James head of the Church? Nah. Catholic.com Tract here provides a good perspective. Peter was the Rock, established by Christ himself over The Church. James was (likely) head of the Church in Jerusalem. Peter shows his authority in Acts 15 and only after Peter settles the issue does James speak.

15 But some men came down from Judea and were teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and debate with them, Paul and Barnabas and some of the others were appointed to go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and the elders about this question. 3 So, being sent on their way by the church, they passed through both Phoeni′cia and Samar′ia, reporting the conversion of the Gentiles, and they gave great joy to all the brethren. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and the elders, and they declared all that God had done with them. 5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up, and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them, and to charge them to keep the law of Moses.”

6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter. 7 And after there had been much debate, Peter rose and said to them, “Brethren, you know that in the early days God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 And God who knows the heart bore witness to them, giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us; 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, but cleansed their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why do you make trial of God by putting a yoke upon the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? 11 But we believe that we shall be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”
**
12 And all the assembly kept silence; **and they listened to Barnabas and Paul as they related what signs and wonders God had done through them among the Gentiles. 13 After they finished speaking, James replied, “Brethren, listen to me. 14 Symeon has related how God first visited the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

In addition to scripture itself, we can read the early church writings and no where - no where do we see anyone saying James was the head of the Church. What we do read is that Peter’s successors claim authority over The Church.

“Stephen, that he who so boasts of the place of his episcopate, and contends that he holds the succession from Peter, on whom the foundations of the Church were laid.…Stephen, who announces that he holds by succession the throne of Peter.” Pope Stephen I [regn. A.D. 254-257], Firmilian to Cyprian, Epistle 74/75:17 (A.D. 256).

And the faith comes down from a succession of Catholic Bishops. Even in the earliest times, there were those meeting having opinions contrary to that of the apostolic faith.

“Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3:3:2 (A.D. 180).

Similarly, to believe that James was the leader of The Universal Catholic Church is to hold a belief contrary to that of the apostles and contrary to the Words of Christ whereby he established The Church on St. Peter.

(interestingly, can you imagine if Catholic’s said The Church was founded on James and Protestants said it was founded on St. Peter? How Catholic’s would be criticized for their exegesis of scripture :rolleyes:)
 
Many examples that He let them go away? I only know of one. I know of none that He let them go without explanation. You really have to try hard to see symbol especially since Jesus says “this IS” hardly the language of symbolism nor is "For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in me and I in Him. "
When Jesus spoke to the rich man, he let him go away thinking it was his riches that kept him from gaining eternal life. But it was the love of his riches that kept him from it, not his riches. Many times when he spoke in parables, he only explained them to his discipleship. What do you think him meant, “those with ears, let them hear”? And many other examples.

Tell me this? Where is the water we are supposed to drink? I want to provide it to everyone so they are not spiritually thirsty any longer. Where is the door I can push people through so they have salvation? You ignore Jesus’ way of teaching in this one instance to support the Catholic view of communion. God bless you my friend.
 
Can we agree to disagree on this one, guys? Seems that Protestants and Catholics are destined to remain split on many issues, sadly.

Happy New Year to you all. :twocents::coffee:🍰
 
It is based on scripture. I’m glad you brought John 6 to light. John did say this was a hard thing for them to hear. But only because they didn’t understand Jesus’ symbolic language. Jesus let those disciples leave because 1. He knew from the beginnig they were not with him and 2. There were many examples when those Jesus preached to didn’t understand what he was saying and he let them go away without understanding.

Jesus was not only the perfect human, he was also a perfect Jew. Lev. 17:10,11 specifically forbade the consumption of human flesh and blood. He was not suggesting they must do this for salvation. He was being symbolic. Taking this scripture with the harmony of the rest of the gospels, it is easy to see he was speaking symbollically just as he was when he called himself a door, or light, or water, etc… You MUST take the Bible as a whole when considering scripture. Thanks.
Many examples that He let them go away? I only know of one. I know of none that He let them go without explanation. You really have to try hard to see symbol especially since Jesus says “this IS” hardly the language of symbolism nor is "For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in me and I in Him. "
I still would like to see the many times Jesus did not correct a misunderstanding and His disciples left? Overstatement perhaps?
 
Tell me this? Where is the water we are supposed to drink? I want to provide it to everyone so they are not spiritually thirsty any longer. Where is the door I can push people through so they have salvation? You ignore Jesus’ way of teaching in this one instance to support the Catholic view of communion. God bless you my friend.
Be careful, drblank. For with this type of reasoning you cannot argue with some of the Jesus Seminar folks who claim that Jesus’ resurrection was merely a metaphorical or symbolic resurrection.

And do you know what they use to point to this alleged symbolic resurrection? They say, “Jesus was not really a door. He was not really living water. So what makes you think his resurrection was real?”
 
Can we agree to disagree on this one, guys? Seems that Protestants and Catholics are destined to remain split on many issues, sadly.

Happy New Year to you all. :twocents::coffee:🍰
It is interesting Juliana where Catholics and Protestants disagree on the interpretation of Scripture where each goes to affirm their interpretation:

Protestants - scripture alone with self interpretation or that of a pastor

Catholics - to the Apostolic Faith as reflected in the Tradition of The Church and held, taught & protected by the Magisterium (note, we can read what The Church believed before the bible came into existence)

Examples here include but are not limited to:
  • The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
  • Sacramental Baptism
  • Infant Baptism
  • Salvation (a life long process per St. Paul or OSAS, a new doctrine of recent times)
Happy New Year!

PnP
 
When Jesus spoke to the rich man, he let him go away thinking it was his riches that kept him from gaining eternal life. But it was the love of his riches that kept him from it, not his riches. Many times when he spoke in parables, he only explained them to his discipleship. What do you think him meant, “those with ears, let them hear”? And many other examples.

Tell me this? Where is the water we are supposed to drink? I want to provide it to everyone so they are not spiritually thirsty any longer. Where is the door I can push people through so they have salvation? You ignore Jesus’ way of teaching in this one instance to support the Catholic view of communion. God bless you my friend.
My statement was “The disciples left because it was to hard a saying”

My statement is about the disciples and you answered there were “many” times He let disciples. The rich man wasn’t a disciple so you haven’t provided one time that Jesus said something that wasn’t explained in fact you just admitted that He explained them to the disciples.
The one who ignores is you
No one walked away from Jesus because He said He was a door but they did walk away when He told them" For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink.
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. "

The reaction of the disciples that they walked no more with Him and Jesus did not correct them, shows that they did not misunderstand Jesus and Jesus meant it literally. Furthermore Jesus states at the Last Supper that this IS not represents not a symbol but IS. Like the rich young man you go away because it is to hard a saying for you.
 
Different from each other? No. Do the OO have a different canon? Possibly. It might also be broken up differently. Multiple parishes, one Church, one Faith.
I never said “different from each other” but it clearly is acceptable vernacular to say multiple churches, or else the Lord would not say “to the seven churches.” If the Lord says it, it is good enough for me. 😉 It seems you are taking offense to something that has never meant to be offensive.
 
I never said “different from each other” but it clearly is acceptable vernacular to say multiple churches, or else the Lord would not say “to the seven churches.” If the Lord says it, it is good enough for me. 😉 It seems you are taking offense to something that has never meant to be offensive.
When Christ said it, he wasn’t implying that they were separate. It is not acceptable in the manner you’ve used. The Orthodox Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church is acceptable. If you are referring to the Coptic/Oriental Orthodox Church, you may refer to them as the Coptic Church or the Oriental Orthodox. This is acceptable. The way you phrased it implies a common misunderstanding or misrepresentation (depending upon who is saying it).
 
When Christ said it, he wasn’t implying that they were separate. It is not acceptable in the manner you’ve used. The Orthodox Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church is acceptable. If you are referring to the Coptic/Oriental Orthodox Church, you may refer to them as the Coptic Church or the Oriental Orthodox. This is acceptable. The way you phrased it implies a common misunderstanding or misrepresentation (depending upon who is saying it).
I’m sorry, but I do fully understand that the Orthodox are joined, but the way I used the words is similar to the phrase in Revelation, and I wasn’t implying that they were separate either. Different physical locations, different Bishops, and even slightly different canons. Once more, I think everyone from every persuasion seems too ready to take simple straightforward phrases to be slights. Protestants as well as Catholics and Orthodox. Again, no slight meant, but my words were accurate as meant.
 
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