Protestants: Why don't you follow his command? "Eat My Flesh and Drink My Blood"

[kujo313]

Eden:

Here are some great sites for you to discover the “Real Presence”:

www.therealpresence.org

www.scripturecatholic.com/the_eucharist.html

And you will find a series called “Eucharist: Source & Summit” by Fr. Corapi near the bottom of this page:

www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/realpres/a12.html

You will find it listed in the section entitled “Audio Programs”. You will need RealPlayer to listen though.

Many others have started out yearning for truth and are when they listen to that voice they are led by the Holy Spirit to the Catholic Church. May God bless you on your journey!

How many Protestant denominations have communion? Some believe that it’s the actual body and blood of Jesus just as much as they pluck out their eyes and cut off their hands.

You’re telling me that catholics worship a wafer and some wine? After they’re prayed over, they’re still a wafer and wine. Other than that, since the pope is the head of the “church”, why not go to the Vatican and eat him? Or eat of the other popes who died?

 

[seeker_b]

Philena:

As a Lutheran, I did believe that it was the Body and Blood of Christ as he said.

That is why it was so disturbing to me one day to see the communion wafers and wine treated as if it was common food after the church service.

That got me thinking - if it really is the Body and Blood of Christ, why are we dumping the wine down the sink? It didn’t seem logical that the bread and wine was only Christ’s Body and Blood during the church service and reverted back to what it was before after the service.

I didn’t know anything about Catholic practice regarding the Eucharist. When I found out what Catholics do with the Bread and Wine after the service - that they treat it with respect as if it truly is the Body and Blood of Christ, it was an “Aha” moment for me.

Lutherans should not be pouring the wine down the drain. Perhaps whoever was doing it had not had the proper training. It is very important than that people doing this are trained properly. Nothing should go in the garbage. It should be consumed, or poured into the ground.

 

[Eden]

kujo313:

How many Protestant denominations have communion? Some believe that it’s the actual body and blood of Jesus just as much as they pluck out their eyes and cut off their hands.

Exactly.

So many of Christians have been deceived by the lie that the Eucharist is symbolic - starting with a man named Zwingli in the 16th century.

That is why I am hoping to share the beautiful gift of Christ in the Eucharist with our Protestant brothers and sisters who have never even heard of the Real Presence in their churches. Because of the errors of a 16th century man, many Christians are unable to receive Him in the Eucharist. I invite those who have come here seeking truth (not to persecute the Church - ahem) to read more:

www.therealpresence.org

You’re telling me that catholics worship a wafer and some wine? After they’re prayed over, they’re still a wafer and wine.

Catholics know that Christ is present. We do not “worship” a “wafer and wine”. But you knew that. You are just here to be antagonistic. I thank you for your posts which give me the opportunity to share His truth with others who have come here seeking His Truth.

Other than that, since the pope is the head of the “church”, why not go to the Vatican and eat him? Or eat of the other popes who died?

You think a pope is the Risen Jesus Christ?! Whoa! Slow down! Blasphemy!

http://eucharist.cjb.cc/images/eucharist1.jpg

A Meditation on the Eucharist: Jesus offers Himself to us as our Food in Holy Communion

He desires to be for us the manna that nourishes and strengthens us on our pilgrimage to the land of promise, to our heavenly home. In Holy Communion He gives us light to dispel the darkness of our spirit; He gives us consolation to support us in sufferings; peace and rest to pacify our heart; courage to make us strong in our trials and temptations. What incomprehensible love on the part of Jesus! What inestimable happiness for us poor, weak creatures of earth.

And oh, how wonderful! In a thousand Hosts He is as in one; His Presence is in each place where there is a consecrated Host, and each communicant receives Him whole and entire, though a hundred thousand should receive Him. Hundreds of thousands receive Him and He rests in hundreds of thousands of places at the same time. Such a miracle only an omnipotent God can accomplish.

www.tanbooks.com/doct/blessed_sacrament.htm

 

[St.Eric]

Roman_Catholic:

I don’t have an argument on it either way. I havent even had my first communion yet so I am not going to argue theology with anyone. With that said however, my love of Christ plays out in me humbly submitting to His Church and its teachings it has carried down since the time of Christ.

Anyways I am confused. Are we supposed to take the Bible literally or symbolically? I had the “call no man father” argument thrown at me by a protestant, where the guy said we are to take the whole Bible literally. Then I came here and Protestants are saying to take parts of the Bible symbolically. If we are to take it both literal in places and symbolically in places, who decides what verses are symbolic or literal? I mean this in no offense to anyone, but to me it seems that this particular Protestant I talked with takes it literal when it helps his case against Catholicism and then symbolically when it comes to his own faith. Just something I was confused on.

God Bless

That is why we have a wonderful gift from God. One word:

Magisterium
That is how we know what to take literally and symbolically.

 

[St.Eric]

kujo313:

How many Protestant denominations have communion? Some believe that it’s the actual body and blood of Jesus just as much as they pluck out their eyes and cut off their hands.

You’re telling me that catholics worship a wafer and some wine? After they’re prayed over, they’re still a wafer and wine. Other than that, since the pope is the head of the “church”, why not go to the Vatican and eat him? Or eat of the other popes who died?

I say this with all charity…You are a seriously sick man. I pray one day you will get better. God have mercy on you. Father, forgive Kujo, he knows not what he says. Amen.

 

[kujo313]

St.Eric:

I say this with all charity…You are a seriously sick man. I pray one day you will get better. God have mercy on you. Father, forgive Kujo, he knows not what he says. Amen.

First, take the telephone pole out of your eye.

My point is that of course the earliest (and latest) leaders of the RCC is like a business. When the business fails, they will make sure to take care of themselves.
It happens all around:
When automakers layoff and fire people, it gives the highest executives bonuses. When gas prices go up, the top execs share in the billions of dollars that they profited.

In turn, Jesus showed up and the Sanhedrin didn’t like it. They was taking in less and less money and people. Jesus’ followers was growing in numbers every day. Soon, more would follow Him than follow the religious leaders.

Instead of talking to Jesus about the Scriptures concerning the Messiah, they wanted Him out of the way.

Today, you will NEVER hear anyone from Rome saying “We was wrong about this issue.” Never.

Of course the RCC HAS to be right about the bread and wine. If not, then people would not go to their temples. They keep the wafers locked up in a box as if to put the body of Jesus in their control.

It’s a control issue.

While catholic churches in Michigan are closing their doors due to falling attendance and shortages on money, those in Rome could EASILY help them pay heating/cooling costs and it won’t even put a dent in the billion$ they have.

Excuse me, I want to go shout praises to the Lord.

 

[St.Eric]

kujo313:

First, take the telephone pole out of your eye.

My point is that of course the earliest (and latest) leaders of the RCC is like a business. When the business fails, they will make sure to take care of themselves.
It happens all around:
When automakers layoff and fire people, it gives the highest executives bonuses. When gas prices go up, the top execs share in the billions of dollars that they profited.

In turn, Jesus showed up and the Sanhedrin didn’t like it. They was taking in less and less money and people. Jesus’ followers was growing in numbers every day. Soon, more would follow Him than follow the religious leaders.

Instead of talking to Jesus about the Scriptures concerning the Messiah, they wanted Him out of the way.

Today, you will NEVER hear anyone from Rome saying “We was wrong about this issue.” Never.

Of course the RCC HAS to be right about the bread and wine. If not, then people would not go to their temples. They keep the wafers locked up in a box as if to put the body of Jesus in their control.

It’s a control issue.

While catholic churches in Michigan are closing their doors due to falling attendance and shortages on money, those in Rome could EASILY help them pay heating/cooling costs and it won’t even put a dent in the billion$ they have.

Excuse me, I want to go shout praises to the Lord.

I would appreciate it if you shouted your praises elswhere. Thank you.

 

[Eden]

kujo313:

First, take the telephone pole out of your eye.

That’s not in the bible. There weren’t even telephones back then.

When the business fails, they will make sure to take care of themselves.

www.catholiccharitiesusa.org

www.catholiccharitiesasf.org/worldCC.htm

Since Protestants believe in OSAS, there is really much less compelling them to charity work.

Instead of talking to Jesus about the Scriptures concerning the Messiah, they wanted Him out of the way.

Today, you will NEVER hear anyone from Rome saying “We was wrong about this issue.” Never.

Of course the RCC HAS to be right about the bread and wine. If not, then people would not go to their temples. They keep the wafers locked up in a box as if to put the body of Jesus in their control.

People sell the consecrated Eucharist on ebay, satan worshippers have stolen it. Should we just allow access for these people?

It’s a control issue.

Protestantism in general is an obedience issue.

While catholic churches in Michigan are closing their doors due to falling attendance and shortages on money, those in Rome could EASILY help them pay heating/cooling costs and it won’t even put a dent in the billion$ they have.

Churches are closing because parishioner demographics change. Catholics move out of state in large numbers (as with the rest of the population) or they move to newer neighborhoods in the same area so the old churches lose members and become run-down. You are completely misunderstanding why churches close.

**New York and Detroit Face Parish Closings **
NEW YORK, MARCH 29, 2006 (Zenit.org).- Two major U.S. archdioceses have announced plans or recommendations to close dozens of parishes, a response to declining numbers of priests and shifts in demographics.

The New York Archdiocese said Tuesday that it is bracing for a major reorganization, recommending the closing of 31 parishes and 14 schools.

At the same time, it is considering establishing five new parishes in suburban areas and building several new church buildings, mostly in regions north of the city, where Catholics have moved over the years.

The closings would hit hardest in the southern part of the archdiocese, including Manhattan, said the New York Times.

Final decisions concerning the schools will be made by April 24. There is no schedule for final decisions on the parishes.

In Michigan, the Detroit Archdiocese today announced plans to close or merge 16 parishes, most of them in or near the city, under a five-year reorganization plan.

Other small congregations in the city and elsewhere will share pastors under the reorganization plan.

Cardinal Adam Maida said the decisions were part of a strategic planning process. The changes will reduce the number of parishes from the current 306 to 290, the Associated Press said.

Hard hit will be the inner ring of older suburbs, once home to large baby-boomer families now grown and moved elsewhere, reported the Detroit Free Press newspaper.

www.catholic.net/global_catholic_news/template_channel.phtml?channel_id=2

%between%

Excuse me, I want to go shout praises to the Lord.

Quiet, meditative prayer might be more neighborly.

 

[ruzz]

If John 6 is going to be taken literally as meaning literally eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking his blood. If this were literally so important and such a foundational issue.
Could someone show me where in John 6 Jesus offers his arms to be gnawed on and pokes Himself to drain off some blood to drink?
If this is so important, where do we see this happening in this book? Any book?

 

[St.Eric]

ruzz:

If John 6 is going to be taken literally as meaning literally eating Jesus’ flesh and drinking his blood. If this were literally so important and such a foundational issue.
Could someone show me where in John 6 Jesus offers his arms to be gnawed on and pokes Himself to drain off some blood to drink?
If this is so important, where do we see this happening in this book? Any book?

This is spooky stuff. This is exactly what the heretics were asking when St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote his letter to the Smyneans. I guess some things have not changed in 2000 years! Though statements like the one quoted above actaully strengthen my faith and knowledge the the RCC is the TRUE church. We have been accused of being cannabils since the very begining.

 

[Mickey]

St.Eric:

This is spooky stuff. This is exactly what the heretics were asking when St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote his letter to the Smyneans. I guess some things have not changed in 2000 years! Though statements like the one quoted above actaully strengthen my faith and knowledge the the RCC is the TRUE church. We have been accused of being cannabils since the very begining.

AMEN!!!

 

[ruzz]

St.Eric:

This is spooky stuff. This is exactly what the heretics were asking when St. Ignatius of Antioch wrote his letter to the Smyneans. I guess some things have not changed in 2000 years! Though statements like the one quoted above actaully strengthen my faith and knowledge the the RCC is the TRUE church. We have been accused of being cannabils since the very begining.

My humor is lost on you.

You have skipped over my question totally. Either you are ignoring it or don’t you have an answer. Because I have a question are you labeling me a heretic? Some things don’t change for 2000 years. At least I am able to question it without fear. Sticks and stones.

My point is simple. If Jesus is teaching some literal eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood. Where in James does he further explain how to do this (as in the Eucharist)? Where in this narrative do we see Jesus teaching the Eucharistic prayer to turn bread into flesh? Where in this story do we see Jesus distributing Eucharist? (to those that remain) Of course Jesus doesn’t literally offer “finger food”, but what DOES He offer all those (perhaps thousands) present.

In this chapter, it describes people literally eating (feeding 5,000). Jesus talks about mana and eating literally and how it is temporal and we are hungry again. How God provided this temporary sustenance that fed them but left them hungry again. How HE is not like this.

Makes perfect sense. Then He talks about the need to consume His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life. Ok, I’m following. But where does He DO it in this narrative? Where does Jesus then take some bread, turn it into flesh and hand it out? Wouldn’t this be an EXTREMELY important event to document? If the author understood it this way, wouldn’t he also document Jesus’ or Apostles distributing Eucharist?

If I’m buying into the literal aspect, my next obvious move is, “Ok Jesus, give us some, um um, of your body and blood. I want to live forever.”

What DOES Jesus give them?

 

[St.Eric]

ruzz:

My humor is lost on you.

You have skipped over my question totally. Either you are ignoring it or don’t you have an answer. Because I have a question are you labeling me a heretic? Some things don’t change for 2000 years. At least I am able to question it without fear. Sticks and stones.

My point is simple. If Jesus is teaching some literal eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood. Where in James does he further explain how to do this (as in the Eucharist)? Where in this narrative do we see Jesus teaching the Eucharistic prayer to turn bread into flesh? Where in this story do we see Jesus distributing Eucharist? (to those that remain) Of course Jesus doesn’t literally offer “finger food”, but what DOES He offer all those (perhaps thousands) present.

In this chapter, it describes people literally eating (feeding 5,000). Jesus talks about mana and eating literally and how it is temporal and we are hungry again. How God provided this temporary sustenance that fed them but left them hungry again. How HE is not like this.

Makes perfect sense. Then He talks about the need to consume His flesh and drink His blood for eternal life. Ok, I’m following. But where does He DO it in this narrative? Where does Jesus then take some bread, turn it into flesh and hand it out? Wouldn’t this be an EXTREMELY important event to document? If the author understood it this way, wouldn’t he also document Jesus’ or Apostles distributing Eucharist?

If I’m buying into the literal aspect, my next obvious move is, “Ok Jesus, give us some, um um, of your body and blood. I want to live forever.”

What DOES Jesus give them?

Sorry but I do not find this to be a humorous topic. Try reading the explainations found at these links below.

catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp

catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp

catholic.com/library/Sacrifice_of_the_Mass.asp

 

[ruzz]

St.Eric:

Sorry but I do not find this to be a humorous topic. Try reading the explainations found at these links below.

catholic.com/library/Christ_in_the_Eucharist.asp

catholic.com/library/Real_Presence.asp

catholic.com/library/Sacrifice_of_the_Mass.asp

Ok, sarcasm and humor to make a point don’t amuse you. I’ll try to refrain from it.

I read the links and none of them explain why James does not describe the “rest of the story”. Unfortunately, I am unable to post counter links because I have been warned that is frowned against. Fair enough, because forum discussions should be between people and not links to other people’s writings.

The question I have posed remains.
In this story, where does Jesus explain the Eucharist and where does He distribute it? It’s very hard to imagine the author would write of such an IMPORTANT concept as transubstantion and the real pressence without further demonstrating how it’s done or at the very least how Jesus did it.

Instead Jesus states “flesh profits nothing”. I’d say He’s making a strong point here.

The link you provided takes Jn 6:63 incompletely in an attempt to explain it.

In John 6:63 “flesh profits nothing” refers to mankind’s inclination to think using only what their natural human reason would tell them rather than what God would tell them.

It’s just hard to swallow this explaination. I think Jesus’ literal words were clear. He’s now explaining what it means instead of handing out Eucharist.

The full verse is:
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life

Nothing here about bread or wine and how to make them into flesh.

 

[St.Eric]

ruzz:

The full verse is:
John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life

Nothing here about bread or wine and how to make them into flesh.

Exactly, and what were his words. His words commanded us to DO something, that is “to eat my flesh and drink my blood.” After he says this, in Jn 6:66, the disciples walk away because they cannot accept this teaching. The 12 remain. And at the last supper he institutes the Eucharist for those who believe, i.e., the 12 and then commands them to do this always. Through apostolic succession, we continue to keep this command.

Keep in mind that only a very small amount of the things Jesus did and said were recorded in scripture. Also, if the author of this gospel thought that this was a self-evident teaching, in no further need of explaination, then he would not have elaborated on it. Much the same way Christ didn’t tell the disciples who turned away to come back so he could explain the parable. Why? Because there was no parable, he spoke literally at that point. They couldn’t believe the teaching so they walked. And he let them do so. He doesn’t even clarify himself with the 12. In every other parable in the entire bible, when the 12 don’t understand, he breaks down the parable for them. He does not do this in John 6, because there is no parable.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Perfect answer St. Eric.

 

[St.Eric]

JoeyWarren:

Perfect answer St. Eric.

Thank you. Even a blind hog gets an acorn every now and then.

 

[JSmitty2005]

St.Eric:

Even a blind hog gets an acorn every now and then.

Hey! You stole that from Scott Hahn!

 

[Rachel_Malloy]

ruzz:

… Unfortunately, I am unable to post counter links because I have been warned that is frowned against. Fair enough, because forum discussions should be between people and not links to other people’s writings.

If you have evidence that you feel refutes assertions in the debate, you can feel free to post the source and a snippet from the piece.

If it is an online source, you can quote a portion of it, and post a link to the source on the web.

I’m not sure why you were warned against doing this- providing evidence is good debate.

Though I will remind all here that the quality of the evidence is sometimes as important (if not more) than the evidence itself.

If you remain charitable in tone and content in all debates, you have no reason to worry.

Rachel

 

[JoeyWarren]

JSmitty2005:

Hey! You stole that from Scott Hahn!

That’s exactly what I was thinking. I have listened to his conversion story 6 straight times during the past week. Hey, it is a good quote. It might one day be added to a list of famous quotes.