Protestants; why won't you be CATHOLIC!?

[Carlan]

quote:imjustme
was born and raised Roman Catholic, including 6 years in Catholic Boarding school (in Italy - with nuns even!) and received Catholic Baptism, First Holy Communion, Confirmation, and Marriage. With several priests in the family and being raised by nuns (and a very devout mother) I was well indoctrinated in the Catholic faith…sometimes going to regular mass on Sunday morning and Latin mass in the afternoon.

All the years as a Catholic, I never read a Bible from cover to cover.

Once I finally got around to reading and studying the Bible (in my 40s), I learned that there are many inconsistencies between the Bible and Catholic Doctrine. I began to research the many issues (false doctrine) and decided that the Catholic Church is not where I wanted to worship.

I actually went through a phase of being very upset at those who taught me…I reasoned that my parents and other lay people didn’t know any better…but how could the nuns and priests have read scripture and not realize that they were not the same as Catholic doctrine? My greatest regret is that I raised my children Catholic and I feel that I have somewhat failed as a parent for not researching sooner so that I could have set them on the right path from an early age( end quote)

hello imjustme, I just got through reading one of your earlier posts , and was very amazed to , learn of your Catholic background. It seems much time has passed by. and you seem to be G well and truly fallen away, however, I have never been one to give up on anyone, I’ve known about many fallen away Catholics, some in my own family, who have returned to the faith, some on their death bed, and I would like to suggest to you to take another look at your heritage, what do you have to lose? Take a look at the ‘The Catechism of the Catholic Church’ it will remind you of all the truths you learned about as a child. You know that it was the Catholic Church who .brought us all the Bible. Many of us have never read it from cover to cover but that does not mean we don’t believe and love our Lord Jesus with our whole heart and soul, He is our hope.Discover the deep and beautiful spirituality of the Church over again.God bless you and your family.Carlan

 

[Janet1983]

hello imjustme, I just got through reading one of your earlier posts , and was very amazed to , learn of your Catholic background. It seems much time has passed by. and you seem to be G well and truly fallen away, however, I have never been one to give up on anyone, I’ve known about many fallen away Catholics, some in my own family, who have returned to the faith, some on their death bed, and I would like to suggest to you to take another look at your heritage, what do you have to lose? Take a look at the ‘The Catechism of the Catholic Church’ it will remind you of all the truths you learned about as a child. You know that it was the Catholic Church who .brought us all the Bible. Many of us have never read it from cover to cover but that does not mean we don’t believe and love our Lord Jesus with our whole heart and soul, He is our hope.Discover the deep and beautiful spirituality of the Church over again.God bless you and your family.Carlan

Usually people who convert away from Catholicism do so for a reason…

 

[estesbob]

Usually people who convert away from Catholicism do so for a reason…

If you read their “conversion” stories it is almost always based on a misunderstanding of the teachings of the Church and trading the Truth for emotion.

I think those who leave the Church are far more at risk than those who never belonged in the first palce. Its hard to claim "invincible ignorance when one willingly walks away from the Church

 

[Janet1983]

If you read their “conversion” stories it is almost always based on a misunderstanding of the teachings of the Church and trading the Truth for emotion.

I think those who leave the Church are far more at risk than those who never belonged in the first palce. Its hard to claim "invincible ignorance when one willingly walks away from the Church

I’d rather considering it finding the truth, but that’s because of my personal point of view…
I separated because of emotions at first, but I did not join any other church at that time… When I decided not to attend mass anymore it was for reasons of theology… I left for emotions and did not come back for theological issues… Then I got saved and recently joined a church (which I could not do in our military chapel in Germany).
Not all converts leave because of emotions, but those who stay away often do so for theological reasons.

 

[estesbob]

I’d rather considering it finding the truth, but that’s because of my personal point of view…
I separated because of emotions at first, but I did not join any other church at that time… When I decided not to attend mass anymore it was for reasons of theology… I left for emotions and did not come back for theological issues… Then I got saved and recently joined a church (which I could not do in our military chapel in Germany).
Not all converts leave because of emotions, but those who stay away often do so for theological reasons.

And were those theological diofferences you discovered based on your peresonal interpretation of Scripture?

 

[Janet1983]

And were those theological diofferences you discovered based on your peresonal interpretation of Scripture?

They were based on reading, not interpreting scripture…

 

[estesbob]

They were based on reading, not interpreting scripture…

Whats the difference.? You read scripture and decided Catholic Theology was wrong. That has to based on your interpreation of what Scripture said. Which brings us back to the fatal flaw of protestanism-how they have run in thousands of different directions since they decided that each individual was the arbiter of what Scripture said.

There are thousands of different protestant views, often directly contradicting each other, on what scripture says. Personally i cant see abandomong 2,000 years of consistent teachings and theology based on my personal opinion on what scripture says. I can not claim to have greater insight than all those who went before me.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I was born and raised Roman Catholic, including 6 years in Catholic Boarding school (in Italy - with nuns even!) and received Catholic Baptism, First Holy Communion, Confirmation, and Marriage. With several priests in the family and being raised by nuns (and a very devout mother) I was well indoctrinated in the Catholic faith…sometimes going to regular mass on Sunday morning and Latin mass in the afternoon.

All the years as a Catholic, I never read a Bible from cover to cover.

Once I finally got around to reading and studying the Bible (in my 40s), I learned that there are many inconsistencies between the Bible and Catholic Doctrine. I began to research the many issues (false doctrine) and decided that the Catholic Church is not where I wanted to worship.

I wonder if you’ve ever read through the whole Bible and wondered about the inconsistencies.

Blessings in Christ, Imjustme,

I must tell you that what I see as a major flaw in your thinking here is that you’re taking the Bible in isolation and interpreting in the light of 16th century thinking in a tunnel vision. I don’t mean that in a nasty way. What I mean is this…The Bible is a part of the Church, not the other way around. The Church pre-existed the Bible. It was the Catholic Church east and west together that chose what was inspired canon and put the New Testament together. It was the Catholic Church that defined the Holy Trinity and defined the nature of God at Nicea and other councils. It was the Church that defended the Bible and brought it to us. Where did Christians go in the first and second centuries, for example, for guidance or truth or right teaching when the Bible was not in every church in a complete canon yet? In the first century there were only three gospels and in the first twenty, thirty years not all the epistles were collected and even known among Christians?

Catholicism looks holistically at salvation. It doesn’t lay in one book or in the Pope or in bishops or in a building. Salvation is from Christ. But Christ works through human beings, not in a vacuum. He doesn’t work through an individual experience or one-time expression of faith or just through the bible with anyone interpreting it willy-nilly. The Bible is not self-teaching. From day one the Church was built by Christ set on Peter and Christ has worked through MEN and has given us sacraments.

What I see you doing is reading the Bible in isolation without reading THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS. I challenge you tonight, and I mean this, to go read the Early Fathers. Read:
Ignatius of Antioch
Polycarp
Irenaeus
Justin Martyr
Clement

Do you know that some of these men lived in THE FIRST CENTURY and were actually taught and studied under the apostles themselves!!? What do these men all have in common? They teach the holy Eucharist, episcopacy and a church hierarchy, salvation is NOT through faith alone, and they emphasize a priesthood that is sacrificial.

If we are to understand the Church and our salvation and Christ Himself we must be holistic. We must INDEED READ THE BIBLE. Absolutely! But we must read the Fathers. We must study the councils and what these holy men said under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit. We must read tradition and we must use reason of course.

Now one more thing I’d like to mention is history. In rejecting your Catholic heritage and embracing an enlightenment and reformation approach to Christ, you have signed on to the belief that the Church that existed for 1,500 years was poppycock. It was defective, full of falsehoods and misunderstandings, a hierarchy that shouldn’t be there, councils that were full of errors, and no one truly understood the truth of Jesus in the right evangelical way.

Do you truly believe that Christ Jesus, the King of Kings, let his people flounder for 1,500 years spinning their wheels in the mud and even languishing in heresy until the Calvinists and Baptists later on and the rest got it right? I cannot for one minute accept that Christ would or did such a thing? It defies logic. Why would he permit kernels of truth to be mixed with such falsities?

Matthew 16 tells us so much of what is RIGHT about Catholicism. John 6 tells us so much of the TRUTH of Catholicism. James in his discussion about how we are NOT saved by faith alone reaffirms the teachings of the Church.

I truly encourage you to read the Fathers. Anyone who has confidence in their beliefs has nothing to be afraid of. I have read the Book of Mormon twice, the Koran a couple times, the Dhammapada, you name it. I came to the truth of Catholicism by the guidance of the Holy Spirit as a young man and it was the Fathers that provided that missing piece.

Seeing to understand salvation and the nature of Christ as well as what constitutes a Church through a simple private reading of scripture, out of context with history or the fathers will yield a drifting away into moral relativism and a poor understanding of ecclesiology.

I hope you re-consider Catholicism and pray about it. Be open to your family heritage religiously. Do Catholics have a history in the last 100 years or so of lousy catechisis? Heck yeah! Do Catholics sometimes not know their Bible as well as they should? Yep! Do Catholics sometimes have a poor understanding of their faith? Sure do. But you will find that same phenomenon in every denomination. I’ve seen it first hand. You said in all your years as a Catholic that you never read the Bible cover to cover. Remember, that is the fault of family and individual catechists, not the entire Church.

Give Catholicism a chance and at least re-explore it. I’m glad you came to Catholic Answers. I think the Holy Spirit led you here and it’s my prayer that you come home. May God bless you richly!
Your brother in Christ,
Scott:thumbsup:

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Whats the difference.? You read scripture and decided Catholic Theology was wrong. That has to based on your interpreation of what Scripture said. Which brings us back to the fatal flaw of protestanism-how they have run in thousands of different directions since they decided that each individual was the arbiter of what Scripture said.

There are thousands of different protestant views, often directly contradicting each other, on what scripture says. Personally i cant see abandomong 2,000 years of consistent teachings and theology based on my personal opinion on what scripture says. I can not claim to have greater insight than all those who went before me.

Agreed, Estesbob,

And what’s more, as I stated to Imjustme, embracing that theology that Janet has adopted presupposes that for 1,500 years Christ left His flock languishing in misunderstanding, blindness, false teachings, and a lack of truth mixed in with some kernels of the Gospel message. When Jesus says “the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (the Church), 1,500 years of blindness and lost sheep would constitute a long reign of terror by Satan and us all left scratching our heads wondering why it took that long for Luther and Calvin to come as our theological saviours to guide as back to the Jesus we lost for 1,500 years?

Good post.

 

[mystagogia]

I was baptized as a Southern Baptist as a teenager and swum the Tiber this year. Why don’t Protestants become Catholic is a delicate question, I’d think, given the what I see going on in the Southern Baptist Church. It’s a conservative church which hews sometimes toward orthodoxy. Let me explain that: in the church I grew up in Holy Communion was a sacred event in which we partook of the body and the blood of Christ himself. It was not characterized to me at any time as symbolic, it was a real religious experience of the presence of Christ and treated with according reverance. I was stunned to find out that wasn’t the general case with Southern Baptist churches, most of whom saw Holy Communion as a largely symbolic thing. So, Southern Baptists, and accordingly Protestants in my experience, are wildly all over the map theologically.

The evils of the Catholic Church were impressed upon me early on. Catholics were pagans who prayed to saints and engaged in idolatry regarding the Virgin Mary. Catholics were slaves of the Roman Pope, a mere man, rather than slaves of Christ. The Catholic Church started out with good intentions but over time accretions occurred which obscured and perverted the true faith. Catholic social teaching is backwards, especially concerning birth control. Catholic priests are weird and suspect, given to raping little boys due to unnatural sexual frustration imposed monolithically by the central church, and they represent an intrusion before your direct channel to God. He forgives you, ultimately, not some priest.

Everything I just said in the previous paragraph is shot full of holes. These are invalid criticisms which betray a lack of understanding of the Catholic position more than anything else.

I picked up and read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and a few papal encyclicals like The Gospel of Life, and it was like lightening struck down on all sides. Then I got into the early Church Fathers and read as much of them, early Church history, and the development of Church theology as I could.

Yes, the Catholics might be crazy as bats. But the Roman Catholic Church defends the truth nevertheless. The best thing on the earth, the pearl worth the greatest prize, is the Roman Catholic Church.

It’s the best.

I invite my friends from the Protestant sects to take a serious look at her, lest you miss out.

 

[imjustme]

I would be interested to see something from the CE that is “vitriolic” or anti-Protestant. Is

We do well to moderate ourselves, as there are very few mods and they cannot keep an eye on every thread.

I do try to moderate myself, really

We try to be open to the feedback of other members when there seems to be a violation of forum rules. Most violations are a result of people not reading the rules, or not realizing that what they have done is a violation. For that reason, members can serve to educate one another and all of us can make the forum work better. Members that do not respond to cues from members usually end up getting reported and sanctioned by mods.

I understand about having to follow forum rules. I did read them when I joined, but I didn’t think I broke any of them.If I can’t tell my opinion or link to sites that explain my thoughts, there is no point in discussing. I know better than to link to anything REALLY anti-Catholic (like sites saying the pope is the devil or something) but sites explaining who is saved or not by a non-Catholic perspective is just as upsetting to sites explaining that Protestants aren’t quite as good as Catholics from a Catholic perspective.

Thank you for your prayers. Catholics believe that prayers are of benefit, even if the person praying is not necessarily praying the “right” prayer. His will be done on earth, as it is in heaven.

I suspect that you know very little abou the true teachings of the early Church. If the only source material on that you have is your NT, then you are sadly lacking in that respect. I hope you are able to curb your anti catholic hostility long enough to be educated on that point.

**I don’t think I have hostility. I once wrote that when I first learned the non-Catholic perspective, I was upset with the people that taught me Catholicism, but I’m over it now. It was just an initial reaction. **

 

[Joe_Brown]

freewebs.com/legionofpeace/biblecheatsheet.htm

 

[imjustme]

The bible is a book, and hence, cannot be “obeyed”. This concept is one of the errors of sola scriptura. The Bible cannot be the final “authority” because the taking of authority requires that one be able to discern, and take responsibility for ones actions. The doctrine of SS attempts to force these abilities into scripture, which it was never meant to carry. As a result, the reader becomes his own authority, and obeys himself. In the end, each man does what is right in his own eyes.

However, I agree, I think the poster is valuing the Holy Word, and wanting to be obedient to God in the way that she perceives the Word indicates that she should.

Wow…I can’t believe you said “the bible is a book and cannot be obeyed”…so what or who do you choose to obey instead?

My belief is that the bible is the inspired Word of God and it was provided to us by the original writers, who were guided by the Holy Spirit, specifically for us to know the will of God in our lives, and as a Christian it should be obeyed as much as possible.

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

There is some room for tradition to be followed, as long as it confirms the written word, but if tradition conflicts with the word, then it is false doctrine.

I know you are already familiar with these verses and that there are many others, but am posting them just so that others may not say that I am talking about something without scriptural proof.

Luke 24:45 Then he **opened their minds **so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,

1 Cor 15 1-4 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved,** if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.** 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

 

[imjustme]

Obedience based on who’s interpreation of the Bible? How do we resolve it when we have multiple different inrepretattions of the same verses?

You are correct that there are sometimes multiple interpretations of the same verse. We are only human and are imperfect and as imperfect humans, we can only do the best we can.

On a spiritual level, we must first of all ask the Holy Spirit to guide us in what we read and how we interpret. This requires an open mind and faithful heart. I believe these to be the most important tools in understanding God’s word: The Holy Spirit, our faith, an open mind.

On a human level, we should of course do our due diligence by researching any verse that seem to be unclear or contradictory to what we know of God. I believe that God is perfect and man is not…so if there is something unclear or contradictory, it is because I personally haven’t figured it out, not because of an error in scripture…scripture confirms scripture…often the OT refers forward to the NT and the NT confirms the OT…so when in doubt, seek the other references.

There are many resources available to help understand the historical and linguistic challenges.

 

[mystagogia]

Wow…I can’t believe you said “the bible is a book and cannot be obeyed”…so what or who do you choose to obey instead?

The Holy Bible is in the end just a book. What really matters is what you take away from it, how you interpret what it says. Think of the Ethiopian in the chariot trying to make sense of the prophets. Likewise, the Law of Moses was put down in books, and Christ himself rose up to fulfill this law and move beyond it. You don’t live a Levitican life, nor does any Christian. We draw upon the wells of tradtion, the agency of the Holy Spirit, the critical faculty of biblical scholarship, and Church leadership to apply the Bible to our lives. All of us, regardless of denomination.

My belief is that the bible is the inspired Word of God and it was provided to us by the original writers, who were guided by the Holy Spirit, specifically for us to know the will of God in our lives, and as a Christian it should be obeyed as much as possible.

So, we are in agreement. Don’t think for a minute that Catholics don’t hew close to the Bible. It is a work that our Church canonized, does revere, and has based our plan of worship around regarding the liturgy of the mass and the liturgy of hours. At every given hour of the day the Church prays to God in unadulterated form from the raw Bible that we revere as a sacred deposit.

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

Agreed.

There is some room for tradition to be followed, as long as it confirms the written word, but if tradition conflicts with the word, then it is false doctrine.

Agreed.

I know you are already familiar with these verses and that there are many others, but am posting them just so that others may not say that I am talking about something without scriptural proof.

Luke 24:45 Then he **opened their minds **so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them, “This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day,

1 Cor 15 1-4 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2 by which also you are saved,** if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.** 3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

Amen.

 

[imjustme]

quote:imjustme
was born and raised Roman Catholic, including 6 years in Catholic Boarding school (in Italy - with nuns even!) and received Catholic Baptism, First Holy Communion, Confirmation, and Marriage. With several priests in the family and being raised by nuns (and a very devout mother) I was well indoctrinated in the Catholic faith…sometimes going to regular mass on Sunday morning and Latin mass in the afternoon.

All the years as a Catholic, I never read a Bible from cover to cover.

Once I finally got around to reading and studying the Bible (in my 40s), I learned that there are many inconsistencies between the Bible and Catholic Doctrine. I began to research the many issues (false doctrine) and decided that the Catholic Church is not where I wanted to worship.

I actually went through a phase of being very upset at those who taught me…I reasoned that my parents and other lay people didn’t know any better…but how could the nuns and priests have read scripture and not realize that they were not the same as Catholic doctrine? My greatest regret is that I raised my children Catholic and I feel that I have somewhat failed as a parent for not researching sooner so that I could have set them on the right path from an early age( end quote)

hello imjustme, I just got through reading one of your earlier posts , and was very amazed to , learn of your Catholic background. It seems much time has passed by. and you seem to be G well and truly fallen away, however, I have never been one to give up on anyone, I’ve known about many fallen away Catholics, some in my own family, who have returned to the faith, some on their death bed, and I would like to suggest to you to take another look at your heritage, what do you have to lose? Take a look at the ‘The Catechism of the Catholic Church’ it will remind you of all the truths you learned about as a child. You know that it was the Catholic Church who .brought us all the Bible. Many of us have never read it from cover to cover but that does not mean we don’t believe and love our Lord Jesus with our whole heart and soul, He is our hope.Discover the deep and beautiful spirituality of the Church over again.God bless you and your family.Carlan

Thank you Carlan, for your kind words. Although I don’t agree with you that I would ever return to the Roman Catholic Church, I know you mean well, and I do appreciate that. I have studied Catholic doctrine for most of my life. In fact as I was cleaning house today, I even found four more special study books that I used in my 30s to learn more.

I know that most Catholics do believe in Jesus, but I wish more Catholics would read scripture because I believe God intended it for us to read and learn from and use as a tool for teaching, as it says in Timothy. So many Catholics spend so much time reciting rosaries and saying repetitive prayers and not reading the bible and praying as Jesus taught us…that makes me sad and worries me because I do care for my Catholic brothers and sisters.

 

[imjustme]

Whats the difference.? You read scripture and decided Catholic Theology was wrong. That has to based on your interpreation of what Scripture said. Which brings us back to the fatal flaw of protestanism-how they have run in thousands of different directions since they decided that each individual was the arbiter of what Scripture said.

There are thousands of different protestant views, often directly contradicting each other, on what scripture says. Personally i cant see abandomong 2,000 years of consistent teachings and theology based on my personal opinion on what scripture says. I can not claim to have greater insight than all those who went before me.

In my humble opinion, God gave us scripture and thought it was sufficient for us. If He thought we needed “the Chatechism of the Catholic Church” to help us understand it, He would have provided that to us.

“How big is your God?”
Are you saying that God is not big enough to provide for perfect Scripture? That it needs to be perfected by man? Or that God can’t provide us with an understanding to His believers?

 

[imjustme]

Blessings in Christ, Imjustme,

I must tell you that what I see as a major flaw in your thinking here is that you’re taking the Bible in isolation and interpreting in the light of 16th century thinking in a tunnel vision. I don’t mean that in a nasty way. What I mean is this…The Bible is a part of the Church, not the other way around. The Church pre-existed the Bible. It was the Catholic Church east and west together that chose what was inspired canon and put the New Testament together. It was the Catholic Church that defined the Holy Trinity and defined the nature of God at Nicea and other councils. It was the Church that defended the Bible and brought it to us. Where did Christians go in the first and second centuries, for example, for guidance or truth or right teaching when the Bible was not in every church in a complete canon yet? In the first century there were only three gospels and in the first twenty, thirty years not all the epistles were collected and even known among Christians?

Catholicism looks holistically at salvation. It doesn’t lay in one book or in the Pope or in bishops or in a building. Salvation is from Christ. But Christ works through human beings, not in a vacuum. He doesn’t work through an individual experience or one-time expression of faith or just through the bible with anyone interpreting it willy-nilly. The Bible is not self-teaching. From day one the Church was built by Christ set on Peter and Christ has worked through MEN and has given us sacraments.

What I see you doing is reading the Bible in isolation without reading THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS. I challenge you tonight, and I mean this, to go read the Early Fathers. Read:
Ignatius of Antioch
Polycarp
Irenaeus
Justin Martyr
Clement

Do you know that some of these men lived in THE FIRST CENTURY and were actually taught and studied under the apostles themselves!!? What do these men all have in common? They teach the holy Eucharist, episcopacy and a church hierarchy, salvation is NOT through faith alone, and they emphasize a priesthood that is sacrificial.

If we are to understand the Church and our salvation and Christ Himself we must be holistic. We must INDEED READ THE BIBLE. Absolutely! But we must read the Fathers. We must study the councils and what these holy men said under the divine inspiration of the Holy Spirit. We must read tradition and we must use reason of course.

Now one more thing I’d like to mention is history. In rejecting your Catholic heritage and embracing an enlightenment and reformation approach to Christ, you have signed on to the belief that the Church that existed for 1,500 years was poppycock. It was defective, full of falsehoods and misunderstandings, a hierarchy that shouldn’t be there, councils that were full of errors, and no one truly understood the truth of Jesus in the right evangelical way.

Do you truly believe that Christ Jesus, the King of Kings, let his people flounder for 1,500 years spinning their wheels in the mud and even languishing in heresy until the Calvinists and Baptists later on and the rest got it right? I cannot for one minute accept that Christ would or did such a thing? It defies logic. Why would he permit kernels of truth to be mixed with such falsities?

Matthew 16 tells us so much of what is RIGHT about Catholicism. John 6 tells us so much of the TRUTH of Catholicism. James in his discussion about how we are NOT saved by faith alone reaffirms the teachings of the Church.

I truly encourage you to read the Fathers. Anyone who has confidence in their beliefs has nothing to be afraid of. I have read the Book of Mormon twice, the Koran a couple times, the Dhammapada, you name it. I came to the truth of Catholicism by the guidance of the Holy Spirit as a young man and it was the Fathers that provided that missing piece.

Seeing to understand salvation and the nature of Christ as well as what constitutes a Church through a simple private reading of scripture, out of context with history or the fathers will yield a drifting away into moral relativism and a poor understanding of ecclesiology.

I hope you re-consider Catholicism and pray about it. Be open to your family heritage religiously. Do Catholics have a history in the last 100 years or so of lousy catechisis? Heck yeah! Do Catholics sometimes not know their Bible as well as they should? Yep! Do Catholics sometimes have a poor understanding of their faith? Sure do. But you will find that same phenomenon in every denomination. I’ve seen it first hand. You said in all your years as a Catholic that you never read the Bible cover to cover. Remember, that is the fault of family and individual catechists, not the entire Church.

Give Catholicism a chance and at least re-explore it. I’m glad you came to Catholic Answers. I think the Holy Spirit led you here and it’s my prayer that you come home. May God bless you richly!
Your brother in Christ,
Scott:thumbsup:

Hi Scott, Thank you for your message and kind words. As I’ve said before, I don’t expect to ever become Catholic again, but I appreciate your sentiment. I would like to respond to your post but there is just SOO much that I don’t agree with that I’d have to take quite a bit of time to do so. Everyone assumes that I’ve made my decision lightly and just by taking a cursory reading of the bible…that is not the case. I study religiously (haha…play on words!) from many sources.

One thing I’d like to respond to is your basically saying that the Catholic Church can’t be wrong because it has been around for so many years…remember that the Jews were around even longer and they still don’t believe in Jesus as the Messiah (and they met Him in person!) Other religions have been around longer than the Catholics, yet they are wrong…so don’t think that longevity is the proof of the truth. The word of God is the only truth.

 

[guanophore]

• There is a slight error on this page.

Yes, and it might be you.

I am not sure what you hope to accomplish by spamming the thread with all this, but most of it is off topic, and I fail to see how it moves forward the discussion in progress. I am also concerned that you did not cite any sources for this material. I urge you to engage in discussion, and bring out your scriptural reference where they are relevevant to the topic. Maybe it would be better to create a website for yourself to put all this stuff, and then you can just post the link!

While not a substitute for knowing your faith, this Bible Cheat Sheet is a useful tool for those of us not blessed with a photographic memory.

Verses marked with an asterisk (*) are objector verses that you should know. If you want to save space on your cheat sheet, you may want to delete them.

I got these from my Bible cheat sheet just to show the scriptural evidence for the Catholic teaching’s. I haven’t even read all of them myself so tell me what you think. They are not full quotes so if you want to find out more you will have to look them up.

God Bless!

It is against the rules to post material without showing where you got it. Your reader should be able to find the source from which you are quoting. I was not able to do that.

 

[estesbob]

In my humble opinion, God gave us scripture and thought it was sufficient for us. If He thought we needed “the Chatechism of the Catholic Church” to help us understand it, He would have provided that to us.

You and I disagree on what scripture says-how do we resolve that?

“How big is your God?”
Are you saying that God is not big enough to provide for perfect Scripture? That it needs to be perfected by man? Or that God can’t provide us with an understanding to His believers?

My God is not big enough to peddle thousands of often contradictory versions of what it takes to be saved.