Protestants; why won't you be CATHOLIC!?

[jake23]

Jake23,
So, after all the posts, and what everyone has said, you’re conclusion is you can read our hearts and know what our motivations are? And it is true of all of us? Just wondering.

Jon

How you got me predicting your motivations makes no sense! Babbling? reading your hearts, I cannot do, but I know that history shows the Catholic church as the true church. I who was once protestant going to school to become a pastor, came out Catholic instead. Anyone who truely wants an relationship with God should study and learn of him and doing so would aknowledge the Catholic church, and anyone who does not is afraid of the truth and blinded by vaine self opinion which is the root of the protestant beliefs! Do protestants love Christ? mostly yes, but they will always lack spiritual maturity that can only be gained the the One body of Christ aka Catholic church!

 

[JonNC]

How you got me predicting your motivations makes no sense! Babbling? reading your hearts, I cannot do, but I know that history shows the Catholic church as the true church. I who was once protestant going to school to become a pastor, came out Catholic instead. Anyone who truely wants an relationship with God should study and learn of him and doing so would aknowledge the Catholic church, and anyone who does not is afraid of the truth and blinded by vaine self opinion which is the root of the protestant beliefs! Do protestants love Christ? mostly yes, but they will always lack spiritual maturity that can only be gained the the One body of Christ aka Catholic church!

I give thanks that the Holy Spirit led you to where He wants you. Your strength of conviction and faith is to be admired. I strongly disagree with your description of my faith, my spiritual maturity, and that of all Christians who are not in communion with the bishop of Rome. I actually find triumphalism to be a rather divisive approach to dialogue. It often comes off as condescending and uncharitable, when that is not usually the intent.
But, once again, it does not prevent me from recognizing your strength of faith.

Blessings,
Jon

PS There are times that I admittedly do babble. This was not one of them.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

I do imagine that! A German Shepherd! I think his holiness would have prevented the Reformation.

The Reformation was in the making for 200 years: one man, coming at the end of the period, could not have prevented it. It didn’t “unhappen” after Pius V was pope - & he’s been canonised. It would have required great changes in the Papacy’s means of getting ready money for a start.​

STM the “great man” theory of history doesn’t apply here

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Sellers1;5510983:

They treat us as if we are stupid here and don’t understand basic priciples of Christianity but look at what many of them believe to be the standard.

The problem is that they arent all the same. they pray to the same God, read the same scripture yet come up with thousands of different opinions on what it takes t be saved.
If they did they would be Catholic

Only if God attracts people. Mere knowledge of Catholic things will never make a single person Catholic. IOW, the necessity of grace is being overlooked. Many people are probably far better off staying Protestant.​

BTW, the CC is one of these supposed thousands of bodies - it is part of this confusion; not separate from it. It does not ultimately matter too much what we think, because God is greater than our ability to spread confusion. A lot of Catholic argument presupposes that God is not greater than man, & that He is not sovereign. But that is not the God of the NT.

Advantage: the OP

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

The answer to this thread is simply this: prideful opinions and fear of truth!

Is ***that ***why Catholics don’t become Protestant ?​

 

[historyb]

I was Protestant, raised that way as a child. Then I converted to Catholicism (because in part I loved their historicity) and have since unconverted and went back to being Protestant, this time around I went to Calvinism and I tell you it is hard to get out of your system but I am trying. I am not sure where to go from here, there are many things that I disagree with in the Catholic Church, I may just go to a regular church and not worry about the rest.

One thing I do wish is that I wish I never converted in the first place. I have been in confusion ever since before I was fine.

 

[mystagogia]

What is the confusion? Don’t Christians, believing in the divine gift of Christ, want to give everything up for his grace?

Come back, you Protestants, and join in communion with us in celebration of Our Lord. Be a part of the Mystical Body of Christ, influencing the march of history, standing as a beacon of salvation for every man and every woman and every child. Kneel with us in our daily prayers and divine offices, celebrate our daily adorations, become a member of Christ’s own Church Militant in our mission of love and redemption.

Come back to the Rock of Peter, the Church that Christ Built.

We are silly to persist in these adversarial attitudes of conflict and needless argument. Come to our Eucharist, our daily sacrifice and our daily participation in the salvific power of Christ’s gift on the cruel cross.

It is maddening that we still persist in these division, each knowing that a divided house cannot stand.

 

[historyb]

I don’t believe the church was built on Peter but on Christ. Plus the RCC has many innovations I rather never have bothered with such a thing but I didn’t think before I did it. We hope someday you leave and cleave to Christ

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

I don’t believe the church was built on Peter but on Christ. Plus the RCC has many innovations I rather never have bothered with such a thing but I didn’t think before I did it. We hope someday you leave and cleave to Christ

What are the Keys given to Peter then? Isaiah 22:22 “And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.” Keys are authority, these are given to Peter and his successors.

The apostles handed down teaching and that is alluded to in the Bible. The Church is the Rule of Faith, not the Bible alone. The Bible contains writings by the apostles to bring those to faith in Christ and His Body, the Church. It says this in the Bible itself.

The Church is a community, a holy nation. “Me and Jesus” is antithetical to the saying of Jesus to Saul, “Why are you persecuting Me?”, not “my followers” or “them”. We are the Body of Christ, His soul is here in the Eucharist. “He who eats the Flesh of the Son of Man has life in him and I shall raise him on the last day”. This is important as is the authoritative Magisterial teachings that remind us of the law that is written on our heart. “He who hears you hears Me. He who rejects you rejects Me and the one Who sent Me”. Please consider this.

 

[Sellers1]

Sellers1;5510983:

They treat us as if we are stupid here and don’t understand basic priciples of Christianity but look at what many of them believe to be the standard.

The problem is that they arent all the same. they pray to the same God, read the same scripture yet come up with thousands of different opinions on what it takes t be saved.

Not unlike all individuals who make up the Catholic church. You claim to have one doctrine but yet all of your members profess something different. Seems very much the same as Protestants. I think we call that human nature.

If they did they would be Catholic

That very much shows your shortfalls of beliefs outside of your own church.

We can judge only by what they tell us. What do you think the Mass is?

What do I think it is or what does the Catholic church say it is?

So what authority outside of Scripture do you recognize?

Again, my point shows again of how your knowledge of anything or anybody outside the Catholic church is very limited.​

The Church’s doctrines are consistent and unchanging. the fact that some members may disagree with them does not change that.

And that holds true to the letter of any Protestant church as well.

The Church recognizes the Sacrament of baptism and in most cases marriage as valid when performed by protestants. The problem with the other Sacraments is they can not be valid given the lack of apostolic sucession

That is matter of opinion and not fact.

true

 

[dsears]

I’ve thought about joining the Catholic Church, but there is just enough that I do not agree with that I just cannot do so at this time.

 

[historyb]

What are the Keys given to Peter then? Isaiah 22:22 “And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.” Keys are authority, these are given to Peter and his successors.

I don’t believe they were, but to all the Apostles as a whole.

The apostles handed down teaching and that is alluded to in the Bible. The Church is the Rule of Faith, not the Bible alone. The Bible contains writings by the apostles to bring those to faith in Christ and His Body, the Church. It says this in the Bible itself.

I won’t dispute this

The Church is a community, a holy nation. “Me and Jesus” is antithetical to the saying of Jesus to Saul, “Why are you persecuting Me?”, not “my followers” or “them”. We are the Body of Christ, His soul is here in the Eucharist. “He who eats the Flesh of the Son of Man has life in him and I shall raise him on the last day”. This is important as is the authoritative Magisterial teachings that remind us of the law that is written on our heart. “He who hears you hears Me. He who rejects you rejects Me and the one Who sent Me”. Please consider this.

I been having this same argument on another forum about this. I argued all different ways but they still want “Jesus and me” personal relationship, how does one argue against this?

 

[guanophore]

The Reformation was in the making for 200 years: one man, coming at the end of the period, could not have prevented it. It didn’t “unhappen” after Pius V was pope - & he’s been canonised. It would have required great changes in the Papacy’s means of getting ready money for a start.​

STM the “great man” theory of history doesn’t apply here

Benedict the Sixthteenth would have relied upon God to provide.

 

[guanophore]

I don’t believe the church was built on Peter but on Christ. Plus the RCC has many innovations I rather never have bothered with such a thing but I didn’t think before I did it. We hope someday you leave and cleave to Christ

Sounds like you are looking for Holy Orthodoxy!

 

[guanophore]

Not unlike all individuals who make up the Catholic church. You claim to have one doctrine but yet all of your members profess something different. Seems very much the same as Protestants. I think we call that human nature.

It is human nature, indeed, as there are just as many ideas as there are belly buttons. However, doctrine in the Catholic Church is not determined by what individual members profess, but by what was handed down to us by the Apostles. I agree with you, though. I think a lot of Catholics have become protestants, and don’t know it, because they do not espouse the Apostolic Teachings.

That very much shows your shortfalls of beliefs outside of your own church.

Or it shows the shortfalls of the beliefs outside the Church.

What do I think it is or what does the Catholic church say it is?

What do you say?

Again, my point shows again of how your knowledge of anything or anybody outside the Catholic church is very limited.

We are all here to learn. What authority outside of Scripture do you recognize?

And that holds true to the letter of any Protestant church as well.

The main difference is that there is a standard outside of individual Catholics about the nature of the doctrine. This does not exist in Protestantism. Every group has their own creed, confession, or requirements for membership. this happens because everyone extracts from Scripture what they believe to be true.

That is matter of opinion and not fact.

Actually, it is a matter of Apostolic Doctrine. It is they who taught that the mysteries of the faith were to be sought from those who were ordained by themselves.

 

[Earnest_Bunbury]

I don’t believe they were, but to all the Apostles as a whole.

Is that really supported by the text or a presupposition? This is for you to decide. The Church says, and the verse “16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven”, seems to indicate authority to Peter. Peter is mentioned, in various names, 190 + times in the NT and John the Apostle is mentioned the next most often at 29 times. Look to a Catholic source and a protestant source on the Greek used for the English translation. This will help you decide whether, if as it seems to show, that from wikiAnswers: “Thee means you only in the singular. It is never used for the plural. For an archaic effect in the plural, ye may be used”, thee is Peter and he has the authority.

I been having this same argument on another forum about this. I argued all different ways but they still want “Jesus and me” personal relationship, how does one argue against this?

Jesus saying “Saul, why are you persecuting Me”, not “them” or “my sheep” or even “My Church”. 1 Corinthians 12: 27 “Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it”. Seems to say it all. Only thing lacking in this is the will to assent to it, thus the will to assent to the truth is the crux of the matter, I think.

 

[Sellers1]

It is human nature, indeed, as there are just as many ideas as there are belly buttons. However, doctrine in the Catholic Church is not determined by what individual members profess, but by what was handed down to us by the Apostles. I agree with you, though. I think a lot of Catholics have become protestants, and don’t know it, because they do not espouse the Apostolic Teachings.
Or it shows the shortfalls of the beliefs outside the Church.

What do you say?

We are all here to learn. What authority outside of Scripture do you recognize?

Tradition and reason given to us by the Spirit

Actually, it is a matter of Apostolic Doctrine. It is they who taught that the mysteries of the faith were to be sought from those who were ordained by themselves.

Again, it is your version of what is Apostolic. I’m certain that Orthodox Christians and Anglicans wouldn’t agree with much of what you profess.

[/QUOTE]

 

[mystagogia]

With regard to all these things about which version of Christianity to choose and so forth, I’ve never been all that comfortable with such stuff.

The pastor I grew up with used to make critical points of what he called “pick and choose Christians” and “Cafeteria Christians”. The criticism lay in the tendency of people to pick and choose among Christian doctrines, swearing by those they liked and ignoring those they did not. This is of course a natural tendency, and it is especially reinforced in a commendable society like ours in which we thrive as free individuals who take pride in self-reliance and high degree of personal freedom. Inescapably, Christian faith comes with consequences, and while I’d argue that in the end this is for the good, it does pose a conflict and a dilemma for a society which places high regard for a maximal degree of personal freedom.

Always I’m reminded of the rich man who came to Christ, excited by his faith, and asked what he should do. Christ’s uncomfortable response was that he should sell everything he had, give it to the poor, and follow Christ. In other words, there is a cost, there is a sacrifice involved in the Christian faith that really ought to be emphasized.

To our Protestant friends, and any others who may be looking at the Catholic faith yet bothered by some doctrinal issues, I wish you the best. My hope is that in the end you will come to realize what I think is the profound gift and deep truth of the Catholic faith and join the Church. I hope you will see that, on whatever point of doctrine that may trouble you, the Church maintains her position with full knowledge that it may be a difficult thing to ask. And that she does so always with an eye on love, charity, and truth even if you cannot in the end agree with her position.

Peace be with you!

 

[Carlan]

They treat us as if we are stupid here and don’t understand basic priciples of Christianity but look at what many of them believe to be the standard.

• Protestants are all pretty much the same and who cares beyond that.
• Protestants cannot possibly fathom or believe in the Real Presence.
• Protestants don’t understand what the Mass really is.
• All Protestants believe in Bible only authority.
• Catholics are all in unity of beliefs.
• Protestants don’t have Sacrements and even if they do, they are invalid.
• Protestants can’t possibly understand Catholicism and if they did they would be Catholic.

Talk about stupid. There you go.

hello Sellers, I have always loved and accepted my Protestant friends and never really questioned their love of God, they believe and love as greatly as I do as a Catholic. We are all sinners and fall short of the Glory of God. Lord have mercy on us ! Carlan

 

[Carlan]

As I mentioned in a previous post I love my Protestant friends and never had too many questions for them, there was one time however I wondered and questioned a Baptist friend about Baptist doctrine.

  A family relative had a live in girlfriend.  She is a Baptist church member attending

church on Wednesday and Sundays faithfully. I mentioned to a Baptist friend that under the circumstances her behavior was some what scandalous.

My friend responded to me by saying,” she could never have been saved in the first place, she is a hypocrite, or she wouldn’t being doing it. I didn’t get that, as a Catholic

my way of thinking is, if you are a Christian baptized and confirmed and you do as they were doing you were a sinning Christian and headed for hell unless you stopped the behavior and repented.

 Sometimes when sinful behavior is pointed out, it is mentioned

that we are being judgmental. I understand that scripture tells us

that it is not wrong for us to judge situations as morally wrong,
however, we must understand that only God can judge peoples intentions.

My question to a Baptist Christian would be–Is it true that what my Baptist friend replied to me, ”She couldn’t have been saved in the first place”, is Baptist doctrine.? Catholics, if that is so, isn’t Baptist teaching in error?:shrug:Carlan