Protestants

[katholikos12]

I struggle with this battle. Have you ever spent time in the protestant faiths? I have - LOTS of time. I can honestly say it is the most back biting and spiteful organization I have ever belonged. Complete and total hypocracy. Disagreements over everything. What gets me is that they don’t even see it.

There are individuals who do have hearts for Jesus. But the problem is that they DO NOT take Jesus at His own words because of incorrect teaching. They only use passages from the bible that support their own individual theology - mainly say a ‘sinners’ prayer and there is your instant ticket to heaven. What a shameful thing to confess to God after realizing that ‘I too’ lead people to believe this lie straight from hell.

No, I lost many years believing in incorrect teachings. I will do my best to reach out to those who are caught up in these Satan inspired faiths. If a pastor cannot believe in Jesus’ own words, “Unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, you will have no life in you,” I won’t even listen.

“Many will come in my name and say, Lord Lord…” I pray I am not one of these…

Stop this!

I am coming to the Church this Easter from non denominational protestantism.

STOP saying that they are evil!

Pull the log out of your own eye before the speck in theirs!

No Protestants are not in the true faith. But from my background they are following one commandment that I have not seen but maybe one or two Catholics (aside from priests) follow: Love the Lord God with all your heart… That is the greatest commandment and Many protestants where I am from are following that to the T. Ironically a theology that says that works are not part of salvation and yet they follow that commandment better that the millions of “Catholics” in America. The stereotype of Catholics in the protestant community is the equivalent of Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden. Catholic in name only and then they do whatever they want. I venture to say the majority of Catholics in the US live this way. Catholicism in the States is comparatively dead to the fire that lives in the hearts of the protestants who are searching for God with all their heart mind and soul.

Does Christ say “Unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, you will have no life in you” yes, but we all know that Christ used hyperbole throughout his teachings (this is not to say that I think the Eucharist is an optional thing; It is the pinnacle of the New Covenant) so why would protestants think differently about Him saying that?

Yes they interpret the Bible according to their own Theology BUT SO DO WE. If our theology was so rock solid there wouldn’t be any debate between protestants and catholics.

The KEY difference (pun intended) is the authority of Christ given to Peter and the Church through apostolic succession. Anyone can find verses that support their theology or lack thereof, but Protestants don’t understand the Jewish roots of our faith, particularly Isaiah 22 and its parallels to the Keys of the Kingdom being given to Peter.

That is a misunderstanding because they have not been taught. Whose fault is that might I add? OURS.

Do not call them evil, when they love Christ with everything they have but merely are historically uninformed (Cardinal Newman reference). You make it sound like the Devil is sitting on stage laughing at them. I very much doubt the Devil takes joy in Protestants I know searching and yearning for God spending hours and hours in prayer and community service and worship so fully that the glory cloud appears (I’ve seen its after effects btw).

 

[Slowride]

Same here, total respect for their devotion and love of God. There is certainly arrogance and pride from both sides. I will say this though. In the 40+ years I’ve attended mass. Not one time have I heard a single disrespectful or negative word against a protestant or any non-Christian faith. Never by the priest during the homily,or religion classes I took at a Catholic University. No utterance ever of denouncing other Christians to justify why we are Catholics, or why we should be Catholics.

Hopefully those who attended protestant churches keep that in mind if ever they’re in church and they hear something negative about Catholics, or Catholic beliefs. We don’t talk bad about you guys,ever. If a priest did, I could see myself getting up from the pew, genuflect, walk out the doors and get a cup of coffee and just come back later.

I agree. In every protestant faith I belonged, Catholics (mabe not by title, but you knew) were mentioned and how we are not saved because fo our false beliefs. EVERY ONE!

No, I will evangelize with the same passion I had when I was a Baptist. If that calls for speaking out against their beliefs in forums like these, or when they approach me on the street or wherever, I will.

I have a sincere sister who is a Calvanist. I just keep on repeating Jesus’ words, " Unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, you have no life in you…" She says, “oh, be quite.” But I can certainly tell she also cringes when she hears this truth.

It’s simple to me - all protestants faiths are from Hell. Created to draw one’s heart into belief that they are actually praying to the same God. They are not, it is a false jesus (that Jesus himself warned against - “many will come in my name…”) they are praying to, receiving from, and glorifying because of ‘seemingly’ answered prayer.

 

[dominic_aquinas]

Stop this!

I am coming to the Church this Easter from non denominational protestantism.

STOP saying that they are evil!

Pull the log out of your own eye before the speck in theirs!

No Protestants are not in the true faith. But from my background they are following one commandment that I have not seen but maybe one or two Catholics (aside from priests) follow: Love the Lord God with all your heart… That is the greatest commandment and Many protestants where I am from are following that to the T. Ironically a theology that says that works are not part of salvation and yet they follow that commandment better that the millions of “Catholics” in America. The stereotype of Catholics in the protestant community is the equivalent of Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden. Catholic in name only and then they do whatever they want. I venture to say the majority of Catholics in the US live this way. Catholicism in the States is comparatively dead to the fire that lives in the hearts of the protestants who are searching for God with all their heart mind and soul.

Does Christ say “Unless you eat of my flesh and drink of my blood, you will have no life in you” yes, but we all know that Christ used hyperbole throughout his teachings (this is not to say that I think the Eucharist is an optional thing; It is the pinnacle of the New Covenant) so why would protestants think differently about Him saying that?

Yes they interpret the Bible according to their own Theology BUT SO DO WE. If our theology was so rock solid there wouldn’t be any debate between protestants and catholics.

The KEY difference (pun intended) is the authority of Christ given to Peter and the Church through apostolic succession. Anyone can find verses that support their theology or lack thereof, but Protestants don’t understand the Jewish roots of our faith, particularly Isaiah 22 and its parallels to the Keys of the Kingdom being given to Peter.

That is a misunderstanding because they have not been taught. Whose fault is that might I add? OURS.

Do not call them evil, when they love Christ with everything they have but merely are historically uninformed (Cardinal Newman reference). You make it sound like the Devil is sitting on stage laughing at them. I very much doubt the Devil takes joy in Protestants I know searching and yearning for God spending hours and hours in prayer and community service and worship so fully that the glory cloud appears (I’ve seen its after effects btw).

Calm down. No one said protestants are evil. The people in protestant churches are good, honest, caring people. On the other hand, their beliefs are pure rat poison. Rent the movie, “A Man for All Seasons” It will teach you about St. Thomas More and the birth of one wicked protestant denomination and the evil that came from it. No one can worship Christ in the way he wants outside His Church. No one will get to Heaven through protestantism. Does that mean that no protestants will go to Heaven? In that, God chooses whom He wants in Heaven, but they would be chose despite their faith not because of their faith. They do not have the means for salvation. The means of salvation exists in the Catholic Church alone. Also, we must be careful not to judge people like Biden and Pelosi, or anyone. We judge doctrine, not people. As a doctrine, protestantism is evil. As people, protestants can be wonderful people. That’s the tragedy: wonderful people enslaved to sin. We must help them by telling them about the True Faith.

 

[Slowride]

Stop this!

Love the Lord God with all your heart… That is the greatest commandment and Many protestants where I am from are following that to the T.

Well, that was definitely not my experience at all. There were a lot of fakers though.

 

[Anglewannabe]

Thanks everyone for the great responses. I guess what bothers me is the unnecessary rivalry

 

[JackieMom]

Thanks everyone for the great responses. I guess what bothers me is the unnecessary rivalry

There’s no rivalry because there is not equality. They abandoned the true faith and over the centuries have squabbled amongst themselves and had such enormous pride that there are now literally hundreds of Protestant churches, all with different beliefs. We’re at the point where any “pastor” can make up his own church, call it “non denominational” and teach his followers whatever he wishes with zero oversight. And these are the churches that are aggressively recruiting new members, offering a “safe” “modern” and “non judgmental” place to “worship.” There is one near me where the seats are theater-style and have drink holders! These churches are leading people down a dangerous path that offers so little in the way of true Christian teaching, I can’t honestly say there is a rivalry, because the legitimacy is so unequal.

 

[ManyBlessings6]

I can only share my experience. I was actively involved in Protestant churches for years. During that time there was many comments made about how the Catholic church was wrong, the people were unsaved, they worshipped idols, it was a false religion, they could not read their bibles, could not pray to God, etc. But just over three years ago things got even worse. When we would go to the adult sunday school class there would be 45 minutes of Catholic bashing. All of the previous mentioned things and much more. My older children were also hearing during their sunday school class. This went on for months. There was so much hatred and judgment directed at the Catholic church it made me ill. It was also what got us on the path to researching, studying and attending the Catholic church.

Now in the year and half we have attended the Catholic church not once have I heard anything said negative about the protestant churches. And it has been a welcome change for us. It also is why I am so happy to being joining at Easter.

The people from the protestant church we attended and had thought of as “family” have abandoned us. Told us we are evil and headed for hell. Only three people from that church will talk to us. It is worth it though because we know we are home.

 

[eyesopening]

I can only share my experience. I was actively involved in Protestant churches for years. During that time there was many comments made about how the Catholic church was wrong, the people were unsaved, they worshipped idols, it was a false religion, they could not read their bibles, could not pray to God, etc. But just over three years ago things got even worse. When we would go to the adult sunday school class there would be 45 minutes of Catholic bashing. All of the previous mentioned things and much more. My older children were also hearing during their sunday school class. This went on for months. There was so much hatred and judgment directed at the Catholic church it made me ill. It was also what got us on the path to researching, studying and attending the Catholic church.

Now in the year and half we have attended the Catholic church not once have I heard anything said negative about the protestant churches. And it has been a welcome change for us. It also is why I am so happy to being joining at Easter.

The people from the protestant church we attended and had thought of as “family” have abandoned us. Told us we are evil and headed for hell. Only three people from that church will talk to us. It is worth it though because we know we are home.

I am in RCIA also and will be confirmed on the 30th of March. I’m so excited. Although I did not come from an anti-Catholic environment as severe as what you are describing, I can sense many of my protestant acquaintances distancing themselves from me. They honestly don’t want to talk to me anymore.

 

[paulrxp]

Now in the year and half we have attended the Catholic church not once have I heard anything said negative about the protestant churches. And it has been a welcome change for us. It also is why I am so happy to being joining at Easter.

The people from the protestant church we attended and had thought of as “family” have abandoned us. Told us we are evil and headed for hell. Only three people from that church will talk to us. It is worth it though because we know we are home.

Can’t say it’ll never happen, but it’s been over 40+ years for me, don’t even know if I heard the word Protestant during a mass, let alone anti-Protestant bigotry.

In my family there were a few that left for the Jehovah’s Witnesses, but they were never shunned or disowned. I guess the question would be, is if you returned to your protestant church, would they welcome you back with open arms? What about all the comments about being evil, would that just be forgiven and forgotten?
I think if you read this forum about Catholics who left and returned,there’s no bad feeling,especially if you decide to come back.

The door never really closes when you’re Catholic, doesn’t matter whether you’re cradle or convert. If you leave and decide to return, a real home never leaves you in the cold, a true Mother Church never disowns it’s child.

 

[UnumCorpus]

Hello everyone,

All I can say is…wow, I am stunned and disappointed by the hatred in this thread. As a Protestant Christian who is deeply committed to ecumenism, my heart is broken by some of the comments being made here.

First of all, Slowride, I think you need correction here. The statement that Protestants are “brothers and sisters” in Christ is a Catholic teaching:

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and ** the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”**
-Catechism of the Catholic Church, Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 3, Line 818 (emphasis mine)

On the other hand, their beliefs are pure rat poison. Rent the movie, “A Man for All Seasons” It will teach you about St. Thomas More and the birth of one wicked protestant denomination and the evil that came from it. No one can worship Christ in the way he wants outside His Church. No one will get to Heaven through protestantism.

dominic_aquinas, I am especially concerned about your comments, specifically your use of the terms “demonic” and “rat poison” go against Catholic teaching towards Protestants. Your own hatred has blinded you to your own Church’s teachings. If the beliefs of Protestantism are evil, then why does the Catechism say otherwise? The Catholic Church does not even view Protestantism as being a different religion…rather a different form of the same religion. It’s also interesting that the current Pope has worked closely with evangelicals in Argentina, so I don’t believe he would agree with your sentiment.

Yes the Protestant denominations are flawed and there is sadly lots of infighting. I am a student of history and I’ve studied the horrors that resulted from the Reformation in detail. Indeed certain branches of Protestantism have had bad beginnings. But that does not take away the fact that many God-fearing Christians have come from these churches and made a difference in this world.

For example, C.S. Lewis, one of the greatest theologians and writers of the twentieth century, was a Protestant. And, along with Catholics, they help to evangelize large parts of the world…my own grandparents were passionate missionaries in India for decades. And I know that Protestants and Catholics have joined together in India to support each other in bringing the Truth of the Gospel to the people there. My grandfather was a pastor and he had the fire of God in him…God even cured of a life-threatening disease so he could continue his ministry. My grandmother also had a medical condition, one which affected her voice. This broke her heart as she loved to sing and could no longer do so. However, God healed her after she promised Him that she would only use her voice to praise Him. They both worked with people from other denominations at a time when Christianity was even more divisive than it is now. God saw the work they were doing and saw that it was good, which is why He healed them. Even though he was a Protestant pastor! Those two were warriors and saints.

I have a lot of respect for the Catholic Church, and I have studied much of its theology. There are differences to be sure, but what strikes me the most are the similarities. The hatred that is on display on both sides is due to a misconception about the other. I realize there is much hatred on the Protestant side as well, which is primarily due to a lack of understanding on their part. They are going off assumptions about the Catholic Church which is just not true, and I seek to educate these people about their errors. However I see the same thing happening here.

More of my post will be continued…

 

[UnumCorpus]

So please even though you do not agree with Protestantism, do not go against the Catholic Church’s teaching and call it a different religion. Using those terms are very hurtful and they do a huge disservice to the millions of Protestants who have dedicated their lives to Christ and some who have even died in His name.

Many Protestant churches do not have a “once saved, always saved” approach. I recognize that one can reject Christ in their lives, and that one must constantly seek out and grow closer to God. As a result of this errenous belief that sadly some mistaken Protestants do hold, there is this assumption that the Protestant versions of the Christian faith are weak or soft. That they just say the “sinner’s prayer” and that’s it. However, that is definitely not the case for many, many Protestants who are strong and fearless Christians. For example what about God-fearing, passionate Christians like William Wilberforce (he helped to end slavery in the British Empire), John Wesley, C.S. Lewis, Dietrich Bonhoeffer (the Lutheran pastor and theologian who was martyred by the Nazis)? What about them? Are they not warriors of God? Have they not revealed the glory of God in their lives?

I pray for Christian unity every day. There is much evil and hatred in this thread, and I find it very disheartening. I think you are even breaking the rules of this forum as one of its rules, when I first signed on, is that you must be respectful of non-Catholic viewpoints. I see very little respect so far in this thread.

Please do not call evil what God calls good. Divisiveness and hatred are evil. However those Protestant denominations which believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Saviour, that He died and rose again and is seated at the right hand of the Father, that worship the True, Trinitarian God, that fear God, that believe in God’s Word, that recognize we are in need of His saving grace, that work with other denominations and seek harmony with Catholics, are not. And it seems the Catholic Church views this the same way.

Thank you and God bless.

Pax caritasque Dei semper vobiscum

 

[katholikos12]

A protestant church with CUP HOLDERS?!?!?! Rend your clothes at this blasphemy!

Early christians met in each others homes and likely sat down, then people built churches and mostly stood during mass, then came the medieval times and pews came along.

It’s a seat. God doesn’t care about seats. He cares about the heart of the person sitting there.

Most non-denominational churches are not anti-catholic. In fact I left my mega church New Life (upwards of 14,000 members, stadium seating, lights, smoke, professional band etc…) and the majority of my friends when told I was coming to the Church responded with asking if my decision was bearing fruit. They didn’t ask about Mary, they didn’t ask why we “re-sacrifice” Jesus every Mass. They asked if it is improving my spiritual life. That is most non-denominationals view point: If it bears good fruit, then the tree is a good tree.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Lumping all Protestants together is the first mistake here. There are many Protestant groups, the vast bulk of them are not the commercialized, nondenominational megachurches. There are Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc. I grew up in the Disciples of Christ church, and although I no longer believe in god that church will always have a special place with me.

If you want to attack Protestant theology, or Protestants as a whole then you need to pick a specific group and go from there. The arguments that you would use against the church I grew up in would be very different from the ones you would use against the Lutheran church (and even there you need to pick a Synod), and those would be different than what you would use against a Methodist.

I never got a “once saved, always saved” message. Actually, the idea of “being saved” was a foreign concept to me until I was about 11 and my grandma and I went to church with my fundamentalist, evangelical, Baptist cousin and her family (who I later found out wanted to “save” me). Not only was I confused and uncomfortable there my grandma was too. When we got to the car my grandma had a long discussion with me about how their denomination is different, they are wrong on ‘XYZ’, and why she would never take me back to a place like that.

 

[TwinMommy]

Protestants aren’t all that nice when it comes to Catholics. Being a protestant who is converting the amount of horrible things being said about Catholicism is sickening and making it a lot clearer as to why I am leaving. I have known a lot of Catholics and never heard one say a bad toward Catholics. My views of the Catholic church were formed by all the bashing I have heard for years. I am so blessed that I have seen the truth.

 

[dominic_aquinas]

dominic_aquinas, I am especially concerned about your comments, specifically your use of the terms “demonic” and “rat poison” go against Catholic teaching towards Protestants. Your own hatred has blinded you to your own Church’s teachings. If the beliefs of Protestantism are evil, then why does the Catechism say otherwise? The Catholic Church does not even view Protestantism as being a different religion…rather a different form of the same religion. It’s also interesting that the current Pope has worked closely with evangelicals in Argentina, so I don’t believe he would agree with your sentiment.
.

Hatred of protestanism is merely hatred of sin. Remember, I’m not talking about people. I’m talking about doctrine. Same religion? Wow! So, the Jehovah’s Witness who claims that Christ is really the Archangel Michael and is not to be prayed to is the same religion as Catholicism. That’s a new one on me. Look, we aren’t doing these people any favors by letting them live in sin. They will not go to Heaven through there Jehovah’s Witness religion and they are actively trying to convert more and more people everyday into this false belief. It is a sin of omission not to tell them about it. It is withholding charity of telling them about the True Faith and the errors of Jehovah’s Witness religion.

 

[UnumCorpus]

Hatred of protestanism is merely hatred of sin. Remember, I’m not talking about people. I’m talking about doctrine. Same religion? Wow! So, the Jehovah’s Witness who claims that Christ is really the Archangel Michael and is not to be prayed to is the same religion as Catholicism. That’s a new one on me. Look, we aren’t doing these people any favors by letting them live in sin. They will not go to Heaven through there Jehovah’s Witness religion and they are actively trying to convert more and more people everyday into this false belief. It is a sin of omission not to tell them about it. It is withholding charity of telling them about the True Faith and the errors of Jehovah’s Witness religion.

Alright, now I am confused. I was not talking about Jehovah’s Witnesses. JWs are not Trinitarian, their Watchtower translation of the Bible is highly inaccurate and they are a cult. I do not consider them Christian. So I agree about your sentiments regarding the JW religion.

However as I said before, the Catholic Church views Protestantism as the same religion. We are all viewed as Christians, followers of Christ. When I say Protestants, I am talking about Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Pentecostals, evangelicals Methodists etc. JWs are not Protestants…when we are talking about “Protestants” I assume we are talking about Trinitarian Christians.

 

[dominic_aquinas]

Alright, now I am confused. I was not talking about Jehovah’s Witnesses. JWs are not Trinitarian, their Watchtower translation of the Bible is highly inaccurate and they are a cult. I do not consider them Christian. So I agree about your sentiments regarding the JW religion.

However as I said before, the Catholic Church views Protestantism as the same religion. We are all viewed as Christians, followers of Christ. When I say Protestants, I am talking about Lutherans, Presbyterians, Anglicans, Pentecostals, evangelicals Methodists etc. JWs are not Protestants…when we are talking about “Protestants” I assume we are talking about Trinitarian Christians.

Okay take Epicopalian. Very, very close to Catholicism. We have a statue of St. Thomas More in our church. Can I say that Episcopalianism is the “same religion.”, when St. Thomas was martyred for saying it wasn’t. How dare I pray to him? How dare I look at his statue with reverence and hold this attitude. It would be like spitting in his face. Rent a “Man For All Seasons” and see why the great martyr St. Thomas More died. Learn about him and then pray to him. Ask him what he thinks of the Episcopal church.

 

[UnumCorpus]

I am still confused by your allusion to Jehovah’s Witnesses. They are outside mainstream Christianity and are therefore a different religion. Jesus is created so I cannot possibly count them as Protestant Christians. There are Catholic Christians and Protestant Christians under the umbrella of “Christianity”.

Okay take Epicopalian. Very, very close to Catholicism. We have a statue of St. Thomas More in our church. Can I say that Episcopalianism is the “same religion.”, when St. Thomas was martyred for saying it wasn’t. How dare I pray to him? How dare I look at his statue with reverence and hold this attitude. It would be like spitting in his face. Rent a “Man For All Seasons” and see why the great martyr St. Thomas More died. Learn about him and then pray to him. Ask him what he thinks of the Episcopal church.

As I said in my original post, I am well aware of the horrors of the Reformation. Many amazing Christians were martyred during this period, Catholics and Protestants both. The atrocities that have occurred on both sides is one reason why I feel so strongly about ecumenism. Henry VIII was very unforgiving of clergymen who supported papal authority and this was a time of political and religious upheaval. While the people who committed those atrocities in the Church of England at the time will surely be brought to judgement on the Last Day, those who are Episcopalian now can hardly be held responsible for what occurred. Keep in mind too that there were grievous deeds done on both sides. There were Protestants who were also persecuted and executed during this time.

This is all the more tragic because, as I said, Catholics and Protestants are of the same religion. Those who were passionately committed to their cause at this time did not realize this. The un-Christian acts of those ordered these horrific atrocities to happen served to disguise this very well. Passionate Christians of any type are willing to die for their faith. Most tragic is when it was done by those who claim to follow the same religion but instead are following the ungodly anger and spite resulting from the politics of the time. Both Catholics and Protestants who committed these acts turned their backs on Christ as they did them.

As well, if you look at the quote from the Catechism I gave in my original post, the Vatican seems willing to forgive the sins of the Reformation-era Protestant churches. They say that Protestants and Catholics are “brothers and sisters in Christ”. How can we be brothers and sisters if we are of a different religion? Here is another quote from the Catechism for you:

“The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.” Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”
-Catechism of the Catholic Church (Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 3, Line 838

The Catechism differentiates between “certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church” and those of a different religion who are outside communion of the Church entirely. Just take a look at the section I just cited above.

Another point: why are Protestant baptisms considered valid by the Catholic Church? If they are of a different religion, then this would not be a case. There is a reason why Trinitarian baptisms from any denomination are valid but Mormon baptisms are not considered so.

As I said before, the claims of Catholic theology seem to contradict your own views.

Gratia nostri Domini Jesu Christi tecum

 

[Slowride]

Thanks everyone for the great responses. I guess what bothers me is the unnecessary rivalry

But it truly is necessary, IF we want to lead others inot the One Church of God. Most of what I experienced was disputes over doctrine in the different protestant ‘gathering places.’ I won’t even call them churches from now on. There is only One Church. All others are imitations that teach whatever “tickles their itching ears.”

 

[dominic_aquinas]

I am still confused by your allusion to Jehovah’s Witnesses. They are outside mainstream Christianity and are therefore a different religion. Jesus is created so I cannot possibly count them as Protestant Christians. There are Catholic Christians and Protestant Christians under the umbrella of “Christianity”.

As I said in my original post, I am well aware of the horrors of the Reformation. Many amazing Christians were martyred during this period, Catholics and Protestants both. The atrocities that have occurred on both sides is one reason why I feel so strongly about ecumenism. Henry VIII was very unforgiving of clergymen who supported papal authority and this was a time of political and religious upheaval. While the people who committed those atrocities in the Church of England at the time will surely be brought to judgement on the Last Day, those who are Episcopalian now can hardly be held responsible for what occurred. Keep in mind too that there were grievous deeds done on both sides. There were Protestants who were also persecuted and executed during this time.

This is all the more tragic because, as I said, Catholics and Protestants are of the same religion. Those who were passionately committed to their cause at this time did not realize this. The un-Christian acts of those ordered these horrific atrocities to happen served to disguise this very well. Passionate Christians of any type are willing to die for their faith. Most tragic is when it was done by those who claim to follow the same religion but instead are following the ungodly anger and spite resulting from the politics of the time. Both Catholics and Protestants who committed these acts turned their backs on Christ as they did them.

As well, if you look at the quote from the Catechism I gave in my original post, the Vatican seems willing to forgive the sins of the Reformation-era Protestant churches. They say that Protestants and Catholics are “brothers and sisters in Christ”. How can we be brothers and sisters if we are of a different religion? Here is another quote from the Catechism for you:

“The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter.” Those “who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church.”
-Catechism of the Catholic Church (Part 1, Section 2, Chapter 3, Article 9, Paragraph 3, Line 838

The Catechism differentiates between “certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church” and those of a different religion who are outside communion of the Church entirely. Just take a look at the section I just cited above.

Another point: why are Protestant baptisms considered valid by the Catholic Church? If they are of a different religion, then this would not be a case. There is a reason why Trinitarian baptisms from any denomination are valid but Mormon baptisms are not considered so.

As I said before, the claims of Catholic theology seem to contradict your own views.

Gratia nostri Domini Jesu Christi tecum

Okay, it comes down to this. Let’s say I’m an atheist and I want to go to Heaven. Where do I go? According to your logic it doesn’t matter where I go. According to St Thomas More and St. Thomas Aquinas and all the successory of St. Peter it mattered very, very much. Who should I believe you or St. Peter and St. Thomas More? Are you saying that St. Thomas More should have just agreed to take the oath to prevent shedding his blood. I’ve got news for you the saints prayed to be martyred for the Faith. They greatly desired it, it was the highest compliment they could pay to Christ, to die for Him. Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword. He is Truth and Truth is devisive. The Catholic Faith is not about making compromises and pretending to be a nice guy to prevent conflict. It’s about living the testimony to Truth in a world given up to the devil.