Prove it!

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Dokimas said:
-It seems catholics are obsessed with the idea Mary and Joseph had no more children. You get that by your tradition which seems to be by reading into the Word of God.
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Yes, we are obsessed with making sure that Christ’s divinity is rightfully procalimed. If Mary had other children, it would be like the Ark of the Covenant holding pretty pebbles after holding the Sacred Word. It would make outsiders look at the Sacred Word and think, “well, it wasn’t so special after all. That house it came in was nothing but a holder of pretty things.”

Did Jesus have brothers?
  1. Jesus had a “brother” named James.
"Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother’s name Mary, and aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?”(Matthew 13:55)
  1. James, the Lord’s “brother”, is an apostle.
“Then, after three years I went up to Jerusalem to visit Cephas, and remained with him fifteen days. But I saw none of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother. (Galatians 1:18-19)
  1. There are two apostles named James.
“When morning came, he called his disciples to him and chose twelve of them, whom he also designated apostles: Simon (whom he named Peter), his brother Andrew, James, John, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Simon who was called the Zealot, Judas son of James, and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.”(Luke 6:13-16)
  1. One James (the brother of John) is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his father is Zebedee.
“James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder)” (Mark 3:17)
  1. The other apostle named James is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his father is Alphaeus.
“And when it was day, he called his disciples, and chose from them twelve, whom he called apostles: Simon, whom he named Peter and Andrew his brother, and James and John and Philip and Bartholomew, and Matthew and James the son of Alpheus, and Simon who was called the Zealot, and Judas the son of James and Judas Iscariot, who became a traitor.” (Luke 6:13-16)

[SIGN]6. Therefore, neither apostle named James was a uterine brother of Jesus.[/SIGN]
  1. The man named Joseph (or Joses) is not the uterine brother of Jesus; his mother is Mary and his brother is James. Therefore, this Mary is the wife of Alphaeus.
“Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee’s sons.” (Matthew 27:55-56)

[SIGN]8. Judas is not a uterine brother of Jesus because he is the son of James.[/SIGN]

“When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James.” (Acts 1:13)
  1. While Matthew 15:35 declares James, Joseph and Judas to be the “brothers” of Jesus, it has been demonstrated from scripture that they are NOT uterine brothers of the Lord. [SIGN]From this, it is apparent that scripture must be using the term “brothers” to mean relatives other than sons of Mary.[/SIGN] Source: Randy Carson CAF
    forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=6008686#post6008686
 
Jars_of_Clay said:
Oh, my dear friend, that doesn’t make the Catholic church the one “true” church. Look at what the Catholic church has done over the years. Do you honestly think that Jesus would approve?

LOOK at the sins of your church and it’s leaders. In it’s simplest forms…Praying to idols? Eating fish on Fridays, praying to Mary, praying to saints, carrying medals in your cars for protection (lucky charms my friend), carrying around statues in the streets and putting money on them (the Catholic church does that in my town in NJ), lighting candles for prayers (pagens do that), etc. Can you show me the part where Jesus approved this? Hocus Pocus my friend.

You’ve long ago lost your focus on what is true. Very sad.
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You seem to be the recipient of a great deal of misunderstandings about the Catholic faith. Are you here to get these corrected?

Has it occurred to you to find out what we believe, instead of believing this drivel you were taught?

What brings you here to CAF?
 
Dokimas said:
  • There’s no NT command to have children. Why should there be when the Genesis command to replenish the earth is fulfilled. We don’t need more people…
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Where in the NT was this commandment changed?

Where does it say the command is “fulfilled”?

Where does it say “we dont’ need more people”?

I can’t find any NT record that shows God’s command to be fruitful is rescinded. :confused:
 
Dokimas said:

On one hand, one child fulfills this verse. However, maybe this verse doesn’t mean what you think. I’m not sure what I think it means, but I don’t think women gain enterence into the family of God (salvation) by having children.​

BTW, this doen’t say anything about birth control.
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Whatever you want to construe it to mean, it sure isn’t “women will be saved by birth control”. :eek:
 
Jars_of_Clay said:
I choose to no longer contribute to “arguments” in this forum that would arouse pointless and ridiculous banter such as what I started here.
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I am glad you can take ownership over the drivel you posted about the
Catholic Church. I hope you are willing to accept correction on your erroneous ideas.
 
Dokimas said:
Something that’s against the Word of God can’t be correct no matter what you or I call it.
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I agree, but what you are citing as authoritative is your perception of what the scriptures mean, and this is a significant departure from what the Apostles believed and taught.
 
Dokimas said:
I sure do hope God sent me to communicate with you. I am not wrestling with my beliefs. And what you all say and how you say it makes me all the more believe what I believe.=
I sure hope you have some other reason than evangelism for being here at CAF. This forum is not provided as a venue for you to convert people into "bible christians’. If that is the only reason you are here, you won’t be here long.
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No, No! Not a bit. Most people go through their whole lives content with their understandings. What the Apostles actually believed and taught is of little value to the vast majority of our separated brethren. they are content with the religion they have espoused that was extrapolated from the pages of Scripture.​

Dokimas said:
The CC has made many mistakes; just look at its history. This is not a put down. I expect humans and human institutions to be fallible. We all are fallible and will be until Heaven.
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No, Doki, the Church is infallible, and cannot make mistakes.

The Church is not a human institition. It is from God. Jesus said “I will build MY Church”. She is founded upon the Apsotles and prophets.
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Dokimas said:

Obsession? I read the words and they speak for themselves. I don’t make any big deal out of it.​

It seems catholics are obsessed with the idea Mary and Joseph had no more children. You get that by your tradition which seems to be by reading into the Word of God.​

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No, Catholics are “obsessed” with holding fast to the Truth, even in the face of overwhelming denial by modern innovations.

Mary and Joseph never had ANY children, much less “more” children. I think, unless and until you are willing to understand tribal structure, you will not be able to accept the Truth.

Sacred Tradition does not come from “reading into” anything. It is the Word of God present in the Church. It was there before the NT, and did not disappear when the NT was formed.

The same authoritative body that formed your NT taught the perpetual virginity of Mary, so if you can’t trust that, how can you trust your NT?
 
tweetymom said:
Hi Dokimas, As fear as I have read there is none except abpuy Oran and the scripture To be fruitful and multiply. I have look and researched but none. I agree about Oran so I will be prepared to get my head chopped off along with you.

I have also be called a lot of names here on other threads cause I do npt believe Birth Control is a sin.
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Are you hittin’ those nightcaps a little hard again, Tweety? 😉
 
Dokimas said:

Hi.​

BTW, if you are a Catholic and you have a differing opinion on some matters than your church, I’d say you have integrety by not believing something just because you are told to by mere mortals. Stick to what you’ve studied and see in the Word of God.
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It would show a lot more integrity without the claim to be Catholic. Those who refuse the Teaching of the Church have severed their communion with her, and therefore,no longer have Catholicity.

It is a puzzle why someone would want to claim to be something they are not. 🤷
 
fbl9 said:
Truly you haven’t read scripture for you have missed the quote i gave from Tobias.

You persist in calling yourself catholic yet by the Church’s teaching you hold to that which is immoral and by St.Paul’s words from his first Epistle to the Corinthians you have nothing to hide behind to protect yourself from being judged.
How about you present this view to your parish priest before you recieve the Eucharist again,
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He knows my view and holds most of his self!
 
Don’t you think that that statement has been fulfilled… … I think the earth is well “multiplied” as Jesus request was fulfilled. He requested that when there was just two…I don’t think He is doing that anymore.
 
guanophore said:
It would show a lot more integrity without the claim to be Catholic. Those who refuse the Teaching of the Church have severed their communion with her, and therefore,no longer have Catholicity.

It is a puzzle why someone would want to claim to be something they are not. 🤷
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I severed my relationship with the “church” as you say, but I never severed my relationship with my God and saviour Jesus Christ. I know the next pat answer is "they are one…No they are not. Not unless the church is sitting at the right hand of the Father being an advocate and making intersession for us against the accusations of satan…You see that is what Jesus is doing now…
 
tweetymom said:
You sure do like saying I drink because I hit the wring key. Thank you for that. You are a perfect example I do not want to be.
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I agree, he/she has a lot of nothing to say except insults that are actuallly on the third grade level. Hang in there tweetymom.
 
guanophore said:
It would show a lot more integrity without the claim to be Catholic. Those who refuse the Teaching of the Church have severed their communion with her, and therefore,no longer have Catholicity.

It is a puzzle why someone would want to claim to be something they are not. 🤷
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You are right Dokimos, No matter what denomination you are, if it does not line up with the Bible, the Livinng Word of God, then they are wrong and of course God is right.
 
Dokimas said:
There’s judging and then there is Judging. We are to judge right and wrong (sin issues - not because we’re better but because we love the sinners; if it wasn’t for the grace of God, we’d fall on our faces). We are not to look down on people. There are some beliefs, as Paul was addressing, that aren’t a right or wrong issues so when you think yours is better, you’re judging wrongly.
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Amen
 
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