Prove it!

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rovimax said:
Jesus is Divine and will do anything for us but if he chooses to have a church who are we to argue on his intentions. 1 Cor 3:9 Paul siad that they are co-workers with Christ, it did not take away anything from Jesus. So what’s your problem? Otherwise other Jesus’s command will be meaningless if you insist in this kind of logic.
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I don’t believe I have any problem with the church Jesus started. It is your understanding that is hard to synthesize with the NT and original teaching of the original disciples. (I’m not sure if I spelled synthesized correctly or if it’s the correct term I want so I hope I’m understandable.)
 
I have seen no comments on the point about how the Holy Spirit made it clear God only had One Begotten. He made it very clear so there is no room for ambiguity. Using the term ‘first born’ seem clear to me in light of the Spirit’s use of Only Begotten.
 
Dokimas said:
That’s a nice point but I’d say a wrong conclusion. We don’t know why Jesus gave John the command to watch over His mother. Let’s think about it for a moment in light of the evidence in the NT that probably had siblings: maybe none of His siblings were at the foot of the Cross; or, maybe the siblings of Jesus were not in tune enough yet with His teachings so He’d choose someone He could trust to take care of His mother.
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Nothing you say is Biblical, strangely enough for one who holds all to its pages!

You see ‘siblings’ in the NT when it’s writers and living eyewitnesses do not and so you ‘require’ extrapolations to bridge the gaps, with some liberty, without so much as a ‘by your leave’! The simple understanding that He had no siblings illuminates the ‘whole’ thing beautifully without suppositions and speculation.

Still, as you say, I’m the one that’s drawn the ‘wrong conclusion.’

Perhaps Our Lord FORGOT Himself at the hour of death as to bypass His own siblings and commit THEIR Mum to someone else, thereby committing an act contravening their own laws and customs!!..after He had done soooo well throughout His life!

Aww well… I don’t like merry-go-rounds.

:cool:
 
Deconi said:
Nothing you say is Biblical, strangely enough for one who holds all to its pages!

You see ‘siblings’ in the NT when it’s writers and living eyewitnesses do not and so you ‘require’ extrapolations to bridge the gaps, with some liberty, without so much as a ‘by your leave’!

Still, as you say, I’m the one that’s drawn the ‘wrong conclusion.’

Perhaps Our Lord FORGOT Himself at the hour of death as to bypass His own siblings and commit THEIR Mum to someone else, thereby committing an act contravening their own laws and customs!!..after He had done soooo well throughout His life!

Aww well…

:cool:
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Thank you for your opinion. God bless you and I hope you have a very Merry Christmas.
 
Dokimas said:
With the attitude this seems to be written with, tell me why I’d ever want to be a catholic when that’s the attitute of the CC against some of it members. (Of course that’s assuming your opinion of tweetymom is in unity with the CC.)
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tweetymom clearly isn’t in unity with the CC so what was irking me at first, was her deceptive looking profile stating she was while preaching like a sola Scriptura believer. I won’t be so harsh on her now of course because she’s gotten rid of most of the confusion. I just don’t like posters coming onto this forum where their profiles could mislead sincere seekers into the Catholic faith and confuse exactly what we believe. It’s disrespectful.
 
Des said:
tweetymom clearly isn’t in unity with the CC so what was irking me at first, was her deceptive looking profile stating she was while preaching like a sola Scriptura believer. I won’t be so harsh on her now of course because she’s gotten rid of most of the confusion. I just don’t like posters coming onto this forum where their profiles could mislead sincere seekers into the Catholic faith and confuse exactly what we believe. It’s disrespectful.
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It is not a deceptive posting I am a Catholic but do not agree with all the CC teaches. And you are very disrespectful!!!
 
dizzy_dave said:
What is the quickest, easiest way to prove to a Baptist that the Catholic church is the true church Jesus Christ founded, and is still the true church?
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In Mat 7:15-20 The parable of the tree and its fruit. … Thus you will know them by their fruits.

Many Catholic Saints sacrificed their life for the sake of the Gospel. In present times many catholics dedicated their life for the service in the name of God, you can see Catholics defending life ( anti abortions, pro life, pro nature ), working on orphanages, home for elderlies, working in lepper colonies. The lives of Saints are good examples to show other Christians the sincerety of Catholic Christian life.

Some christian churches do this only to increase membership. 😦
 
Dokimas said:
I don’t believe I have any problem with the church Jesus started. It is your understanding that is hard to synthesize with the NT and original teaching of the original disciples. (I’m not sure if I spelled synthesized correctly or if it’s the correct term I want so I hope I’m understandable.)
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Its vise versa, I can say the same thing to you.

But only the CC is bold enough to say that it is the Church Jesus Christ established. It is the only Church bold enough to say that their bishops have an unbroken line of succession since the Apostles. No other church claimed that.

Other churches will have to twist some scriptures to justify the existence of their church. Protestants have to claim that either the Early Church apostacised or disappeared. The Mormons have to say that they are a restored church. If I belive any protestant church or claimant of a restored church, its just like saying that Jesus can’t keep a promise and the Holy Spirit became lazy and did not teach and guide the church.

Jesus said that …the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church Mat 16…
Mat 28;20 I will be with you always til the end of the age, Luke 1:33 …his kingdom will never end, John 14:16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you forever.

The Holy Spirit will teach John 16:12-13 I still have many things to say to you but you can not bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own, but will speak to whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

So how can anybody claim that the Church Jesus Christ established disappeared or apostacised?:confused:
 
guanophore said:
You have misunderstood the Scriptures, Jars. You have taken them out of their context, which is the Catholic Church.
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How dare you! HOW DARE YOU try to end your argument by saying what you did. I have NOT misunderstood the scriptures. YOU understand the Catholic church and it’s ways to BE the church! I do not tell you that you’ve misunderstood your beliefs. I tell you why I believe what I do! I take exception to your last entry and I am highly insulted. I am in a sub-forum that SHOULD allow me to express my beliefs. I am NOT in Catholic sub-forum imposing my beliefs to folks asking questions and comments seeking Catholic direction.

So, let me say this - the first sign that a church is a cult - is the belief that “THEY” are the only church and “the” only true church and “EVERYTHING” the do is right and correct. (Cast your stones at me if you want - Jesus is still on OUR side, not MY side - OUR side - he equally loves us both. AGAIN - HOW DARE YOU speak to me in the manner you did!???)

I believe in Jesus. I agree with SOME things the Catholic Church does, but not all. Like all people, it’s clean and shiny on the outside, and dirty on the inside! Look at all the gold and silver in your church’s - with the poor and needy at your footsteps. ALL OF US - look at yourselves - clean on the outside and dirty on the inside.

NEVER again say to me that I misunderstand the scriptures to end your argument. How dare you!!!

NONE OF US - not me, not you are perfect.

I’m outta here!
 
Jars_of_Clay said:
How dare you! HOW DARE YOU try to end your argument by saying what you did. I have NOT misunderstood the scriptures. YOU understand the Catholic church and it’s ways to BE the church! I do not tell you that you’ve misunderstood your beliefs. I tell you why I believe what I do! I take exception to your last entry and I am highly insulted. I am in a sub-forum that SHOULD allow me to express my beliefs. I am NOT in Catholic sub-forum imposing my beliefs to folks asking questions and comments seeking Catholic direction.

So, let me say this - the first sign that a church is a cult - is the belief that “THEY” are the only church and “the” only true church and “EVERYTHING” the do is right and correct. (Cast your stones at me if you want - Jesus is still on OUR side, not MY side - OUR side - he equally loves us both. AGAIN - HOW DARE YOU speak to me in the manner you did!???)

I believe in Jesus. I agree with SOME things the Catholic Church does, but not all. Like all people, it’s clean and shiny on the outside, and dirty on the inside! Look at all the gold and silver in your church’s - with the poor and needy at your footsteps. ALL OF US - look at yourselves - clean on the outside and dirty on the inside.

NEVER again say to me that I misunderstand the scriptures to end your argument. How dare you!!!

NONE OF US - not me, not you are perfect.

I’m outta here!
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Amen
 
Jars_of_Clay said:
How dare you! HOW DARE YOU try to end your argument by saying what you did. I have NOT misunderstood the scriptures. YOU understand the Catholic church and it’s ways to BE the church! I do not tell you that you’ve misunderstood your beliefs. I tell you why I believe what I do! I take exception to your last entry and I am highly insulted. I am in a sub-forum that SHOULD allow me to express my beliefs. I am NOT in Catholic sub-forum imposing my beliefs to folks asking questions and comments seeking Catholic direction.

So, let me say this - the first sign that a church is a cult - is the belief that “THEY” are the only church and “the” only true church and “EVERYTHING” the do is right and correct. (Cast your stones at me if you want - Jesus is still on OUR side, not MY side - OUR side - he equally loves us both. AGAIN - HOW DARE YOU speak to me in the manner you did!???)

I believe in Jesus. I agree with SOME things the Catholic Church does, but not all. Like all people, it’s clean and shiny on the outside, and dirty on the inside! Look at all the gold and silver in your church’s - with the poor and needy at your footsteps. ALL OF US - look at yourselves - clean on the outside and dirty on the inside.

NEVER again say to me that I misunderstand the scriptures to end your argument. How dare you!!!

NONE OF US - not me, not you are perfect.

I’m outta here!
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Yikes! Jars! Really?

I think you’re are over-reacting, to say the least.

Guanophore (and I) have said that to many non-Catholics and no one has responded in this manner.

It’s simply a matter for discussion. I say you’re wrong in your interpretation, where you disagree with the CC.

You say you are correct. So let’s have at it and have some fun while learning about each others’ positions, 'kay?

Isn’t that the entire point of this CAFs?

Sheesh!
 
Jars_of_Clay said:
NONE OF US - not me, not you are perfect.
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sigh!

To say someone is incorrect in their interpretation of the Word is not the same thing as saying “I’m perfect”.

When I say, “The sky is blue!” I am not making a statement whatsoever about my perfection. I am simply stating a fact. I am simply proclaiming the truth.
 
rovimax said:
Its vise versa, I can say the same thing to you.

But only the CC is bold enough to say that it is the Church Jesus Christ established. It is the only Church bold enough to say that their bishops have an unbroken line of succession since the Apostles. No other church claimed that.

Other churches will have to twist some scriptures to justify the existence of their church. Protestants have to claim that either the Early Church apostacised or disappeared. The Mormons have to say that they are a restored church. If I belive any protestant church or claimant of a restored church, its just like saying that Jesus can’t keep a promise and the Holy Spirit became lazy and did not teach and guide the church.

Jesus said that …the gates of hell shall not prevail against the church Mat 16…
Mat 28;20 I will be with you always til the end of the age, Luke 1:33 …his kingdom will never end, John 14:16 I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Advocate to be with you forever.

The Holy Spirit will teach John 16:12-13 I still have many things to say to you but you can not bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own, but will speak to whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

So how can anybody claim that the Church Jesus Christ established disappeared or apostacised?:confused:
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There’s enough twisting of Scriptures and tweeking of history to go around.
 
Jars_of_Clay said:
How dare you! HOW DARE YOU try to end your argument by saying what you did. I have NOT misunderstood the scriptures. YOU understand the Catholic church and it’s ways to BE the church! I do not tell you that you’ve misunderstood your beliefs. I tell you why I believe what I do! I take exception to your last entry and I am highly insulted. I am in a sub-forum that SHOULD allow me to express my beliefs. I am NOT in Catholic sub-forum imposing my beliefs to folks asking questions and comments seeking Catholic direction.

I’m outta here!
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Psalm 119:165 in the KJV is very soothing especially for times like these.
 
Dokimas said:
I don’t understand how all the people of an organization can be fallible but the organization can’t be. Jesus is the only Infallible anything.
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Indeed, and once one realizes as the eunich did when Phillip, asked if he understood what he was reading, proceeded to explain scripture to him.

I may be mistaken here, I think there is a misunderstanding in the debate itself :Of infallability and inerrancy.

Example: Bible cannot be infallible, it is a static item as all books are. Therefore the bible is inerrant not infallible, as many think.

So an entity had to be established by Jesus, sending His Holy Spirit to guide the principles that Jesus set down; and that is the CC. If this were not true then the Holy Spirit is teaching, a whole lot of different communities diffrent things. This is simply unacceptable as far as truth is concerned.

2+2=4 this is truth in Math. Religion certainly is more important so must also be consise would’nt it ?

My 2cents worth.
Peace and God Bless
onenow1:)
 
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