Prove it!

tweetymom · Dec 21, 2009

Des said:
So a when book tells you it’s inspired you will believe it?

Do you believe the Bible is inspired? I certainally believe the Bible is inspired.

fbl9 · Dec 21, 2009

amazing how four words elicted so many posts

,but it all still boils down to the fact of whether one accepts the Church as she is holding her God given authority,or that God is incapable of holding His Church to the truth and must resort to indivualism

Des · Dec 21, 2009

tweetymom said:
Do you believe the Bible is inspired? I certainally believe the Bible is inspired.

Yes I know you do but I still wonder why. The only reason so far you have given was because it said it was. Even though Timothy wasn’t at the time speaking of all the books you currently have in your Bible.

And of course I do but it’s not because it told me it was. I look beyond and deeper for that truth to have meaning.

tweetymom · Dec 21, 2009

Des said:
Yes I know you do but I still wonder why. The only reason so far you have given was because it said it was. Even though Timothy wasn’t at the time speaking of all the books you currently have in your Bible.

And of course I do but it’s not because it told me it was. I look beyond and deeper for that truth to have meaning.

Good for you.

Des · Dec 21, 2009

fbl9 said:
amazing how four words elicted so many posts,but it all still boils down to the fact of whether one accepts the Church as she is holding her God given authority,or that God is incapable of holding His Church to the truth and must resort to indivualism

Agreed. Individualism is an easier route. When one is not comfortable with certain doctrines, adjust them to suit you by twisting the interpretations you read.

Example: “Huh, Peter is the Rock Christ built His Church on? No way! I can’t believe that. It just has to mean something else. Ahh, I know, it has to mean Peter is a little pebble and Christ is the Rock. No, even better. It must mean that it’s only His faith that the Church is built upon. Ahh, I’m glad God revealed that to me. I was getting worried there for a bit”.

StevenFrancis · Dec 21, 2009

This is a reasonable statement. Until a person agrees to the doctrines of the Church, and submits, (though they may fall at times), they are not truly Catholic. If Tweetymom would just self-identify as a Christian, and leave it at that, she would no doubt save herself much argument with the orthodox Catholics among the gang here. But particularly when it comes to scripture, we have a magesterial authority. It sounds as if this poster proof texts, and finds things convenient to her desired belief system, then applies them without context or submission to the Church. Oh, I’m rambling. I just liked your comment, and the way you put it.

Peace,

Steven

Des · Dec 21, 2009

StevenFrancis said:
This is a reasonable statement. Until a person agrees to the doctrines of the Church, and submits, (though they may fall at times), they are not truly Catholic. If Tweetymom would just self-identify as a Christian, and leave it at that, she would no doubt save herself much argument with the orthodox Catholics among the gang here. But particularly when it comes to scripture, we have a magesterial authority. It sounds as if this poster proof texts, and finds things convenient to her desired belief system, then applies them without context or submission to the Church. Oh, I’m rambling. I just liked your comment, and the way you put it.

Peace,

Steven

I agree as well. (name removed by moderator) said it very nicely. But tweety wont do it and my bet is she just intentionally enjoys to ruffle feathers since deep down she knows she’s protestant.

PRmerger · Dec 21, 2009

Dokimas said:
Des is saying she is not in your family, is she not?

Anyone who’s validly baptized is in our family, Dokimas.

Which is why I call even Leela, a confirmed atheist on this forum but was baptized Christian as an infant, my dear sister in Christ.

PRmerger · Dec 21, 2009

Des said:
So a when book tells you it’s inspired, you will believe it?

Exactly.

The Koran claims it’s inspired.

And, I believe, so does the Book of Mormon.

The only reason Tweety believes that the Bible is inspired, is because she’s “blindly” following someone else’s authority!

That is, unless she’s now going to read the Gospel of Thomas and claim, by her own authority, that it’s inspired.

Dokimas · Dec 22, 2009

FidesSpesCarita said:
It didnt stop. Fridays are still fast days, you are just allowed to choose your own fast (I am pretty sure on this one, but not 100% and I dont feel like looking it up).

No fast days are not causing people to sin, but a particular fast (i.e. meat) may have VASTLY less significance to one than another (vegetarian vs. non veggie etc. etc.). It is for this reason that we are called to find our own method of fasting to “fill up what is lacking in Christs suffering”. The thing that was lacking was our contributing/suffering with Christ. It was perfect and complete, but we should all strive to be like Christ and these are the small ways in which we may do this.

At least that is one mans understanding of the situation.

FSC

I don’t think Paul was speaking of fasting in Colossians when he penned the words about filling up what is lacking in Christ’s suffering. Fasting can’t be compared to the suffering of the Lord nor the suffering of the early disciples or the martyrs. I’ve fasted once for 6-8 days (it was 30 yrs ago so I don’t remember which). It was NOT suffering. It was tough at first cuz I love eating. It got easier each day. Let’s be real here.

God’s church leaders should never for a tradition on anyone and say they’ve sinned who don’t follow the tradition.

Dokimas · Dec 22, 2009

PRmerger said:
Yes. I myself question that reference to Onan spilling his seed. It seem to me to be quite a peculiar way to support the Church’s position on birth control.
Obedience is not determinate on infalliblity, but upon authority. Don’t you tell your children to obey you? Should the obey you because you’re infallible, or because you have authority?

How did the Israelites know to follow Moses? Even when Moses led them astray in the desert they were obligated to follow him. There were many who didn’t want to submit to him anymore (Num 16). Yet, even though Moses was headed the wrong way, he was being navigated by God every step of the way.

We as Christians are bound to follow what Christ has set up for us. See Matt 23:3
and Heb 13:17

As it is will all disagreements among Protestants and Catholics, the bottom line always becomes the question of authority. Is it me, myself and I who determines what’s God’s revelation, or is it someone else, namely the Body of Christ?

So if I tell my children to jump off a bridge, they should or their disobeying God’s authority?

BTW, Moses didn’t lead them, the Fire by Night and the Cloud by Day lead them. OH, BTW, the Israelites saw some HUGE miracles at the hand of Moses; those miracles established him as their authority.

Dokimas · Dec 22, 2009

Funny how some well meaning non-catholics say some harsh things to you (collectively) and you strike back that they are catholic haters and bashers. For the most part, I’d say those who say harsh things to you love you and want the best for you.

Dokimas · Dec 22, 2009

Des said:
The irony in such a statement.

I tend to care more for the seekers and lurkers into the Catholic faith being confused or mislead by her. So this being a Catholic forum, does sort of make it more my business than yours don’t you think.

Let’s look at it from the point of view of those you mention: the lurkers and seekers. If I was a lurker and I read your post I’d say, ‘Maybe this TweetyMom had a good reason to distance herself from the CC.’

This is not a private forum. If you have harsh things for TweetyMom there is a way to say them and not in public. Remember, she is one loved by Jesus too.

As for my business: it’s my business to stand up for the weeker when under attack. And on this forum, it becomes my business because none of your catholic friends put sayings like yours in its place. If other catholics would make a stand against such attacks, then us non-catholics would not have to.

Dokimas · Dec 22, 2009

onenow1 said:
No but Jesus founded a church and said: Whatever [YOU] bind on earth shall be bound in heaven and what [YOU] loose will be loosed.

Matt: 18-20 Now John’s disciples and the Pharisees were fasting; and people came and said to him, “Why do John’s disciples and the disciples of the Pharisees fast, but your disciples do not fast?”

And Jesus said to them, "Can the wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them? As long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in that day.

God Bless onenow1

And may the Lord be with you in your time of need !

Has Jesus took back the ‘command’ to fast? Did He call it sin not to? The church in it’s authority to ‘bind’ or ‘loose’ can make anything a sin or make what is a sin not a sin???

Dokimas · Dec 22, 2009

bryan123459 said:
Show them that we are Christian by our love; we are brothers and sisters in Christ.

Great point.

Dokimas · Dec 22, 2009

Des said:
Yes I know you do but I still wonder why. The only reason so far you have given was because it said it was. Even though Timothy wasn’t at the time speaking of all the books you currently have in your Bible.

And of course I do but it’s not because it told me it was. I look beyond and deeper for that truth to have meaning.

BTW, it wasn’t Timothy that wrote 1 Timothy.

Your last statement seems to, in your thinking, place the tradition of the CC over the Bible. Sounds (can’t find the right term here) … to me. I think TweetyMom’s warnings may be the loving statements over the last several posts if your statement is the belief of catholics.

Dokimas · Dec 22, 2009

PRmerger said:
Exactly.

The Koran claims it’s inspired.

And, I believe, so does the Book of Mormon.

The only reason Tweety believes that the Bible is inspired, is because she’s “blindly” following someone else’s authority!

That is, unless she’s now going to read the Gospel of Thomas and claim, by her own authority, that it’s inspired.

So you’re saying the CC has something in common with the Koran and the Book of Mormon; you all claim inspiration.

The Bible’s inspiration to me is based on the resurrection of Jesus. As I’ve studied, the resurrection is one of the, if not the, best established historical event. If God could raise Jesus from the dead, He could inspire the Book that tells us about the event and a bunch more things.

After that authority is established, now we have something to compare all other writings, beliefs and traditions to. To the degree they don’t match up, they should be questioned and maybe rejected.

Dokimas · Dec 22, 2009

PRmerger: "The only reason Tweety believes that the Bible is inspired, is because she’s “blindly” following someone else’s authority! "

This sounds like you’re looking in a mirror. Upon what authority do you believe Bible is inspired?

PRmerger · Dec 22, 2009

Dokimas said:
This sounds like you’re looking in a mirror. Upon what authority do you believe Bible is inspired?

I would not believe in the Bible were it not for the authority of the CC (paraphrasing St. Augustine).

In fact, *anyone *who believes in the Bible is giving tacit approval to the CC’s authority.

Which is why it is so puzzling that people like Tweety (meaning, Protestants) bristle about the CC’s authority, yet each and every time they quote from Scripture (like their favorite verse about judging–actually, it’s the one about not judging, but they ignore all the other ones that say we must judge) they’re giving tacit approval to the CC’s authority.

For it is the Catholic Church which told her that the Gospel of Thomas is not inspired, but the Gospel of Mark is!

tweetymom · Dec 22, 2009

PRmerger said:
I would not believe in the Bible were it not for the authority of the CC (paraphrasing St. Augustine).

In fact, *anyone *who believes in the Bible is giving tacit approval to the CC’s authority.

Which is why it is so puzzling that people like Tweety (meaning, Protestants) bristle about the CC’s authority, yet each and every time they quote from Scripture (like their favorite verse about judging–actually, it’s the one about not judging, but they ignore all the other ones that say we must judge) they’re giving tacit approval to the CC’s authority.

For it is the Catholic Church which told her that the Gospel of Thomas is not inspired, but the Gospel of Mark is!

Thank you and I do not bristle about the CC’s authority, just do not agree with some of the doctrine. If you do I say God Bless you and may God’s Grace shine upon you as you journey with our Savior.

Prove it!

tweetymom

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fbl9

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Des

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tweetymom

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Des

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StevenFrancis

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Des

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PRmerger

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PRmerger

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Dokimas

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Dokimas

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Yes. I myself question that reference to Onan spilling his seed. It seem to me to be quite a peculiar way to support the Church’s position on birth control.​

So if I tell my children to jump off a bridge, they should or their disobeying God’s authority?​

Dokimas

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Dokimas

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Let’s look at it from the point of view of those you mention: the lurkers and seekers. If I was a lurker and I read your post I’d say, ‘Maybe this TweetyMom had a good reason to distance herself from the CC.’​

This is not a private forum. If you have harsh things for TweetyMom there is a way to say them and not in public. Remember, she is one loved by Jesus too.​

Dokimas

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Dokimas

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Dokimas

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BTW, it wasn’t Timothy that wrote 1 Timothy.​

Dokimas

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So you’re saying the CC has something in common with the Koran and the Book of Mormon; you all claim inspiration.​

The Bible’s inspiration to me is based on the resurrection of Jesus. As I’ve studied, the resurrection is one of the, if not the, best established historical event. If God could raise Jesus from the dead, He could inspire the Book that tells us about the event and a bunch more things.​

Dokimas

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PRmerger

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tweetymom

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Yes. I myself question that reference to Onan spilling his seed. It seem to me to be quite a peculiar way to support the Church’s position on birth control.

So if I tell my children to jump off a bridge, they should or their disobeying God’s authority?

Let’s look at it from the point of view of those you mention: the lurkers and seekers. If I was a lurker and I read your post I’d say, ‘Maybe this TweetyMom had a good reason to distance herself from the CC.’

This is not a private forum. If you have harsh things for TweetyMom there is a way to say them and not in public. Remember, she is one loved by Jesus too.

BTW, it wasn’t Timothy that wrote 1 Timothy.

So you’re saying the CC has something in common with the Koran and the Book of Mormon; you all claim inspiration.

The Bible’s inspiration to me is based on the resurrection of Jesus. As I’ve studied, the resurrection is one of the, if not the, best established historical event. If God could raise Jesus from the dead, He could inspire the Book that tells us about the event and a bunch more things.