Prove it!

[Des]

And the last chapter in Matthew, He knew her not until after Jesus was born means?

What does this mean tweety? Does it mean she had children afte she died?

"And Milchal, the daughter of Saul, had no child until [eos] her death.

 

[Dokimas]

You obviously don’t fast.

Actually I’ve fasted, one time for 8 days (it could have been 6 - it was over 30 yrs ago so I don’t want to be inaccurate.)​

You are obviously wrong.​

Have I experience fasting to its fullest; no, not even close. I have a huge way to grow to be the person God wants me to be.​

Now, the reasons people fast may have a degree of suffering involved. The disciple couldn’t cast out a demon from a child (I think it was a child). Jesus had no trouble; the disciples questioned His why they had a problem. He said they needed to fast and pray. The situation that called for fasting was a suffering situation, no doubt.

 

[tweetymom]

What does this mean tweety? Does it mean she had children afte she died?

"And Milchal, the daughter of Saul, had no child until [eos] her death.

After she died? Who said anything about that. I was asking you what the last Chapter of Matthew meant. He knew her not? Does that mean he said oh hi glad to meet you and how are you?

 

[Dokimas]

The first communion, The Last Supper, had both bread and wine. Jesus said unless we eat His Body and drink His blood we have no place in Him. Paul told the Corinthians that communion had bread and wine it it… The why do you day only having the bread is okay? Seems untrue to the Scriptures.

John 653 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
I guess you must not understand the use of metaphors by Jesus. He used many as recorded in the Gospel of John.

 

[Des]

Actually I’ve fasted, one time for 8 days (it could have been 6 - it was over 30 yrs ago so I don’t want to be inaccurate.)​

You are obviously wrong.​

Have I experience fasting to its fullest; no, not even close. I have a huge way to grow to be the person God wants me to be.​

Now, the reasons people fast may have a degree of suffering involved. The disciple couldn’t cast out a demon from a child (I think it was a child). Jesus had no trouble; the disciples questioned His why they had a problem. He said they needed to fast and pray. The situation that called for fasting was a suffering situation, no doubt.

You said fasting isn’t suffering. That was wrong to speak for all of those who fast don’t you think? Nobody says they take on the exact same amount of suffering as Christ so again, why did you say it.

After she died? Who said anything about that. I was asking you what the last Chapter of Matthew meant. He knew her not? Does that mean he said oh hi glad to meet you and how are you?

It means He never had sexual relations with Her. What’s your point tweety?

 

[Dokimas]

What does this mean tweety? Does it mean she had children afte she died?

"And Milchal, the daughter of Saul, had no child until [eos] her death.

Mt 2:15 and was there** until **the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”​

Did Jesus and His family stay in Egypt?​

Mt 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”​

Did they tell the vision after Jesus was raised from the dead? I think so, that’s how we know about it.​

Context, context, context my friend, Des.

 

[tweetymom]

You said fasting isn’t suffering. That was wrong to speak for all of those who fast don’t you think? Nobody says they take on the exact same amount of suffering as Christ so again, why did you say it.

It means He never had sexual relations with Her. What’s your point tweety?

Wrong it say knew her not until Jesus was born. What does knew her not mean?

 

[Dokimas]

Can’t one be honest with themselves and say something like, ‘I see your point and see exactly why you conclude Mary probably had marriage realtions with Joseph, but the Holy Spirit must have meant something different because I trust what the CC says on the issue even though I don’t understand.’

 

[tweetymom]

Can’t one be honest with themselves and say something like, ‘I see your point and see exactly why you conclude Mary probably had marriage realtions with Joseph, but the Holy Spirit must have meant something different because I trust what the CC says on the issue even though I don’t understand.’

Doesn’t appear so.

 

[Dokimas]

You said fasting isn’t suffering. That was wrong to speak for all of those who fast don’t you think? Nobody says they take on the exact same amount of suffering as Christ so again, why did you say it.

You are correct.​

I would have thought that you’d apologize for saying something about me that you had no clue about and then found out later you were wrong. I DON’T need an apology nor do I care whether you give one, it would be the right thing for you to do.

 

[Dokimas]

I don’t understand what this means.

 

[Jars_of_Clay_1]

Look up the word until. It doesn’t mean what it does in English. So the Bible isn’t saying what you want it to say unfortunately for you.

Hi there. I was part of this conversation earlier in this thread and I found your reply interesting. I looked up the word “until” in the dictionary to see if I could understand your point and here’s what comes up:

un⋅til  [uhn-til]
Use until in a Sentence
–conjunction

1. up to the time that or when; till: He read until his guests arrived.
2. before (usually used in negative constructions): They did not come until the meeting was half over.
   –preposition
3. onward to or till (a specified time or occurrence): She worked until 6 p.m.
4. before (usually used in negative constructions): He did not go until night.
5. Scot. and North England. to; unto.
   Origin:
   1150–1200; ME untill, equiv. to un- (< ON unz up to, as far as) + till till 1

Usage note:
Till1 and until are both old in the language and are interchangeable as both prepositions and conjunctions: It rained till (or until) nearly midnight. The savannah remained brown and lifeless until (or till) the rains began. Till is not a shortened form of until and is not spelled 'till. 'Til is usually considered a spelling error, though widely used in advertising: Open 'til ten.

In all seriousness we are speaking English and reading English bibles and references and I would think that if the word “until” didn’t mean what we’re all reading in the dictionary, the bible translators would have given us a different term (or footnote) to have a better understanding.

When you say “until” doesn’t mean what it says in English dictionary, what else could it mean? I looked online in a few Catholic dictionary to see if there was a specific mention to the meaning of this word. Couldn’t find it.

Anyway, thanks for reading this lengthy post and thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[tweetymom]

Hi there. I was part of this conversation earlier in this thread and I found your reply interesting. I looked up the word “until” in the dictionary to see if I could understand your point and here’s what comes up:

un⋅til  [uhn-til]
Use until in a Sentence
–conjunction

1. up to the time that or when; till: He read until his guests arrived.
2. before (usually used in negative constructions): They did not come until the meeting was half over.
   –preposition
3. onward to or till (a specified time or occurrence): She worked until 6 p.m.
4. before (usually used in negative constructions): He did not go until night.
5. Scot. and North England. to; unto.
   Origin:
   1150–1200; ME untill, equiv. to un- (< ON unz up to, as far as) + till till 1

Usage note:
Till1 and until are both old in the language and are interchangeable as both prepositions and conjunctions: It rained till (or until) nearly midnight. The savannah remained brown and lifeless until (or till) the rains began. Till is not a shortened form of until and is not spelled 'till. 'Til is usually considered a spelling error, though widely used in advertising: Open 'til ten.

In all seriousness we are speaking English and reading English bibles and references and I would think that if the word “until” didn’t mean what we’re all reading in the dictionary, the bible translators would have given us a different term (or footnote) to have a better understanding.

When you say “until” doesn’t mean what it says in English dictionary, what else could it mean? I looked online in a few Catholic dictionary to see if there was a specific mention to the meaning of this word. Couldn’t find it.

Anyway, thanks for reading this lengthy post and thanks in advance for your reply.

Thanks Jars

 

[Des]

Context, context, context my friend, Des.

Yes, Context, Context, Context Dokimas.

And behold I am with you always, even UNTIL the end of the age.“And behold I am with you always, even UNTIL the end of the age.”…God isn’t with us after the end of the age?

Joe did not repent TILL the day he died…Joe repented after he died?

'The Lord said to my Lord, 'Sit at my right hand until [eos] I make Thine enemies Thy footstool"…The Lord then will no longer sit at the right Hand of the Father?

 

[Des]

In all seriousness we are speaking English and reading English bibles and references and I would think that if the word “until” didn’t mean what we’re all reading in the dictionary, the bible translators would have given us a different term (or footnote) to have a better understanding.

When you say “until” doesn’t mean what it says in English dictionary, what else could it mean? I looked online in a few Catholic dictionary to see if there was a specific mention to the meaning of this word. Couldn’t find it.

Then the Bible tranlators should have used another word in the examples I have given when the word till or until means not up to that point in the verse. Who do you think translated the Bible to English?

 

[Dokimas]

Yes, Context, Context, Context Dokimas.

And behold I am with you always, even UNTIL the end of the age.“And behold I am with you always, even UNTIL the end of the age.”…God isn’t with us after the end of the age?

Joe did not repent TILL the day he died…Joe repented after he died?

'The Lord said to my Lord, 'Sit at my right hand until [eos] I make Thine enemies Thy footstool"…The Lord then will no longer sit at the right Hand of the Father?

You must not understand what I mean by context, context, context. I mean context helps us understand meaning. Of course Jesus will be with us even after the age ends. I doubt if Joe will be able to repent after he dies (but if God wants to extend His grace for Joe, I’ll not be upset.). I’m not sure what will happen after the enemies of Jesus will be His footstool.​

Now that I’ve responded to your verses, your turn to respond to mine.​

How about: I’m going to keep my shirt on until I take a shower.​

Compare that construction to:

Joseph did not know Mary till Jesus was born.

 

[Dokimas]

Then the Bible tranlators should have used another word in the examples I have given when the word till or until means not up to that point in the verse. Who do you think translated the Bible to English?

As I said you don’t seem to understand context, context, context. Context helps us understand meaning of sentences.

 

[Dokimas]

Des, in case you missed my post let me repost it and add some important items.

Mt 2:15 and was there until (Greek word - heos) the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”​

Did Jesus and His family stay in Egypt?​

Mt 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until (Greek word - heos) the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”​

Did they tell the vision after Jesus was raised from the dead? I think so, that’s how we know about it.​

Context, context, context my friend, Des.​

Matthew 1:
24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife,
25 and did not know her** till ** (Greek word - heos) she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.

 

[Des]

Wrong it say knew her not until Jesus was born. What does knew her not mean?

Tweety. I showed you the word until doesn’t have to mean that something is done up to that point. I also said He knew Her not meant He didn’t have sexual relations with Her. If you choose to ignore the very fact that the Church of both the East and West have ALWAYS believed Mary remained a virgin and assume with your own personal opinion, then that’s all it will be. An opinion of yours and not a conclusion from the Bible that Mother Mary didn’t remain a virgin.

I would have thought that you’d apologize for saying something about me that you had no clue about and then found out later you were wrong. I DON’T need an apology nor do I care whether you give one, it would be the right thing for you to do.

I said you obviously don’t fast since you clearly suggested that fasting isn’t suffering. To fast is to suffer. That’s the point of fasting. You left me no choice but to conclude you do not fast to offer such a response. I’m not sure where I should be sorry. You mean because I was wrong. Ok I was wrong in my previous post to say you don’t fast since you obviously have.

 

[Des]

Des, in case you missed my post let me repost it and add some important items.

Mt 2:15 and was there until (Greek word - heos) the death of Herod, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying, “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”​

Did Jesus and His family stay in Egypt?​

Mt 17:9 Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until (Greek word - heos) the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”​

Did they tell the vision after Jesus was raised from the dead? I think so, that’s how we know about it.​

Context, context, context my friend, Des.​

Matthew 1:
24 Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife,
25 and did not know her** till **(Greek word - heos) she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name JESUS.

So you are suggesting that the Greek word until is not the same in the verses I have given you?