Prove me wrong please!

[Steve40]

A related posture holds that no theodicy is needed or even appropriate. God, if he exists, is so far superior to man, that he cannot be judged by man. Man’s assumption that he can tell God what a benevolent and all-powerful god can or cannot do, is mere arrogance.
*Let me say that’s a lie, well because if God is Omnipotent let him smite me right now! (didn’t think so…)

God has given all of us the death penalty based upon what our first parents did, you are no acception. He will smite you in His Own time unless of course you decide to smite yourself first.

He offers you life. Take it while you still have time. Why are you talking to us when you should be talking to Him? Ask Him to reveal Himself to you. In His time, not yours, He will answer you.

 

[jsphbeale]

Right, the part I forgot to mention is my mom is the religion teacher for Washington Catholic High School. I’ve been struggling in faith to accept a higher power capable of doing all these things my entire life. I am a practicing catholic due to the fact it’s my roots, if you ask me science is the real answer.

You sound just like me when I was younger. The thing is I never really gave God or the Church a chance. I was raised in the CC also but there were just too many rules. I was smarter than those people. I blamed everyone but myself for the things that happened to me until I really hit bottom. Then when I knew there was no other solution within myself I looked up and said “God if you really exist please help me, let me know you are there and I’ll follow You.” Words can’t explain what happened but that changed my life for good. I quit being a rebel and started following where I believed God was leading me and after a couple of years I came home to the Church I was raised in. That happened at 40. I hope you don’t have to go that long. I’ll pray for you.

 

[joseph_virgen]

congratulations! your mother is a wonderful teacher. what you are experiencing is the darkness of our faith. all good people of conscious go through this phase, some more pronounced than others. it is a direct effect of your wondrous upbringing. you are truly blessed.

in some individuals this questioning lasts years. mother theresa’s lasted for more than twenty years, and look at her accomplishments.

i’m still going through mine.

you are barely at the beginning of questioning the validity of our faith. this will continue until your need for rationalization gives way to spirituality. there is no other way. how long? only you will determine so.

much luck

 

[mdcpensive1]

Right, the part I forgot to mention is my mom is the religion teacher for Washington Catholic High School. I’ve been struggling in faith to accept a higher power capable of doing all these things my entire life. I am a practicing catholic due to the fact it’s my roots, if you ask me science is the real answer.

Science is only part of the answer concerning the Kingdom of God on earth. Science and Theology are not at odds. Truth is always theologically correct. Sometimes our theories are not up to par.

Another way to look at this is to think if science is perfected, would our lives be perfect. I think not since there is the matter of salvation and the longing in us for understanding.

mdcpensive1

 

[ryanoneil]

The parable of the prodigal son applies to all of us.

usccb.org/nab/bible/luke/luke15.htm

Peace,

Ryan

 

[jimmy]

It does? Please try and grow something without water, I never said it alone produced life.

Simply because water is necessary for life to exist does not equate to water producing life just like air does not produce life.

 

[rwoehmke]

Another way to look at this is to think if science is perfected, would our lives be perfect?
mdcpensive1

Science is a very cold mistress.

 

[mdcpensive1]

Science is a very cold mistress.

I agree with you. Sometimes in the secular world, people think that if politics and science were perfected, life would be perfect. But that is not the case and will never be.

mdcpensive1

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

So you’re saying this: Before God created the world there was no time and thus no “before.”

Time & space exist for us, because we are finite. To be in one place, is to be absent from others. To be 62, is to be not-35 or not-18 or a whole lot of other ages.​

God is free of limitation - to be a creature (= whatever is not God) is to be limited. The nearest we come to being free like that, is in our souls: especially in our imaginations. And by our imaginations, we can be anywhere in the past, present, future, fictional, imaginary, possible, or impossible. Our bodies don’t move in space so freely, so we are present only in thought to what we think about,if it’s past or is not part of our own lives. But in our imaginations we can be present at the first moon landing in 1969, or go back billions of years before the earth was created, or think about what we have done yesterday, or hope for tomorrow. We are present to what we think about. The moon landing is not aware of being thought about; it is history: we give it life in our imaginations by thinking about it, so it gains something from us by being thought of. God “imagines” us, & we receive from Him by being thought of; & His thought of us, gives life & reality to us.

We have to think about different things with many different thoughts, if we are to think about them in anything more than a very general & imprecise way - & because we are bodily beings, thought is an action of body & soul together. So we can’t think of a hundred different things in great detail all at once - we have to take time to do so. God, OTOH, does not need to think: He sees all creation in every detail, in a single glance, which is timeless, spaceless, eternal. He is infinitely Present to every created being - we depend on Him, and are nothing without Him. He can therefore know each tiniest detail of each created being as though no others existed.

It is not we who are real, with God as a figment of our imaginations - it is God Who is far too real for us to see Him. The sun is too great to be fitted into the world - a collision between it earth would be quite a disaster movie. But the sun is nothing in comparison with God; to come to us in a bearable way that would not destroy us, He came as man, to be God-with-us, Jesus Christ.

We are the fictions, the inventions, the imaginary friends - not God. God does have imaginary friends, & He has them by loving them: love is how He creates, because it is love that alone is able to cross the distance between non-being & God. He loves them into existence, & He does so by His Word Whom He Loves; for by speaking that Word, Who is Jesus Christ, He calls us into existence also; we exist in & for & because of Jesus Christ, as does every created being without exception.

I don’t understand how you can expect someone to accept an absurd statement or even fathom something coming from nothing.

It only looks absurd because that is a distortion of what is being said. Any belief will look daft if people who don’t hold it distort it.

We cannot see,or think of,or want, or long for these things of ourselves - no one can. Only God can gives eyes & sight & mind heart for such things.

Why would there be an omnipotent individual just lurking around(Well he couldn’t be lurking if there was nothing)and one day decide to make a universe? How can you even have a thought process like that? The universe is infinite you meaning. Infinite means forever. It just has been here you can’t explain it nor can you say a “god” just made it and that’s your evidence.

The universe is not infinite, it is created, it is therefore finite, it is not forever. You’re saying of it, what is true of God its Creator, & of Him Alone. Rejection of God always becomes idolatry of His creation. St. Paul noticed this, 1950 years ago.​

 

[crowonsnow]

Can science answer how the universe began? Can it explain why?

Why does a universe need to begin? How do gods begin?

 

[catharina]

Spacer, You say your life was great until you were 19 yrs old. I doubt that many people around the world can say that. When your life was so great, did you thank God for that fact? I wonder why on earth you would be so quick to blame God now? It sounds like you flipped a coin and have chosen bitterness. That won’t get you very far. When you decide to let go of the bitterness, you’ll begin to make progress in building a good life for yourself. I hope you understand that the family of the girl who died must miss her more than you ever could. They had her for nineteen years. You only imagined a future with her. How can you justify your bitterness, especially since you have the gift of faith? You want to toss your faith when you really need it? As others have said, you need some help big-time. Pray - and get counseling ASAP.

 

[Donald45]

Hello, Spacer ~

Reading your posts, I see that you and I have some things in common. I’ve been a Christian all of my life (though a Catholic only for the past seven years). While I hold university degrees in theology and philosophy, I also enjoy a life-long passion for science, evolutionary biology and the history of science in particular. In addition, I’ve struggled with a certain amount of resentment towards God since 1989, when I developed a chronic arthritic condition which has drastically changed my life into something I barely recognize. And, two years ago, my best (and basically only) friend was killed in a car accident. I’m 26 years older than you, however, and so I’ve had a lot more time to consider the questions you’ve raised, and to process the experiences of my life. For what it’s worth, here are a few brief observations:

On anger towards God:
Anger, being the flip-side of fear (psychology 101), is an emotion that should prompt us to ask ourselves the question: What am I afraid of? When it comes to anger towards God, it’s usually a sense of our lives being out of our control that we fear and resent. We can’t seem to control things and, when we consider that God is sovereign over all things, we conclude that God must not be doing much of a job of it either. In such cases, we tend to view God as just some kind of “big man” in the sky, more like us than different from us. God is a mystery, and so we like to “fill in the gaps” with our own finite human reasons, motives, and intentions. This sort of passive-aggressive slap at the divinity says more about us than it does about God.

On the existence of God:
Perhaps you’ve read the books of Richard Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens, or Sam Harris. These are recent examples of what’s being called “the New Atheism.” These books are popular, militantly anti-christian and, unfortunately, very poorly argued (emotion, in the end, does not amount to an argument). You owe it to yourself to study the other side of the issue. Here are a few good books along those lines:

William Lane Craig & Walter Sinnott-Armstrong, GOD? A Debate Between a Christian & An Atheist (Oxford, 2004)

C. Stephen Evans, Why Believe? Reason & Mystery As Pointers to God (Eerdmans, 1996)

Alister McGrath, The Twilight of Atheism: The Rise & Fall of Disbelief In the Modern World (Doubleday, 2004)

A. McGrath & J. McGrath, The Dawkins Delusion? Atheist Fundamentalism & the Denial of the Divine (InterVarsity Press, 2007)

David Robertson, The Dawkins Letters: Challenging Atheist Myths (Christian Focus, 2007)

On Science & Faith:
I, too, love science, and study the theory of evolution passionately. However, as any good scientist recognizes and admits, science has its limits (see the Latin quotation at the very end of this post). Providing a demonstration of the existence of God is simply beyond the limits of the scientific method, and therefore to demand that science “prove” that there’s a God is ultimately to demand of science what it cannot possibly accomplish. Evidence (rational evidence, that is) for God must be sought elsewhere, for example in the fields of theology, philosophy, and religious studies. It should be noted that many evolutionary scientists are themselves committed Christians, and see no conflict whatsoever between a strong faith and a sound science. One may certainly hold reasonably to both. I recommend these excellent texts:

Francisco J. Ayala, Darwin’s Gift To Science & Religion (Joseph Henry Press, 2007)

Stephen Jay Gould, Rocks of Ages: Science & Religion In the Fullness of Life Balantine Books, 1999)

Keith B. Miller, Perspectives On An Evolving Creation (Eerdmans, 2003)

Kenneth R. Miller, Finding Darwin’s God: A Scientist’s Search for Common Ground Between God & Evolution (HarperCollins, 1999)

May God bless you as you endeavor to walk in his truth.

Truly,

Don
+T+

 

[Brian_Millar]

To the original 2 posts, I’ll try to generalize the answers for you and keep it in a nutshell.

What you propose is that since God doesn’t make every single thing happen, because he doesn’t force all men to change their hearts, and turn to him, that he’s wrong. You want a world that has no life in it, no spiritual growth, you want an existance where your life is following a simple set of instructions pre-programmed and forced upon you, where there is no individual self and no need for the soul to exist in the first place. There is life like that, well sorta, it’s called a computer program, you put in the data, program it to follow a certain specific set of instructions, even if it means killing the computer it’s running from and that’s it, in it’s entirety, kind of pointless to think of it as being anything more then what it is. They tried doing something similar to that, where people were treated more like commodities, all people were to be paid the same, all people work the same, all people were the same, they called it Communism, and you saw the results of that one… The tried to take out the human individual element, they tried to oppress free will and self expression, it didn’t work in the end because it would only work if people were not people, otherwise it would work perfectly.

I think God’s plan is in place to work in spite of ourselves, that he’s not causing the tragedies, we are, and only because we asserted our free will in the wrong way, in a way against what he want’s for us, what we see and experience now is the end result. This is why there is an end, a second coming, this is his grand intevention, knowing full well that we as man cannot regulate ourselves very well, and he indeed does come in, in the end to put a stop to it all, he’s also telling his to repent in the here and now, yet people aren’t wanting to listen, so we are stuck with this mess.

I can take the example from the fiance that passed away with the second poster, again I’ll point it to man’s problem, cars are dangerous, their very nature, having this very heavy chunk of steel traveling at high velocity is just a disaster waiting to happen, so it does and will continue to do so until we find a new form of transportation that is 100% safe. Look to the drivers that drink and drive, look to those that remain distracted talking on their cell phones, not paying attention, I’ve even seen drivers reading books while they were driving, how can you possibly see the road if you are looking at a book? This is because people don’t take what they are doing seriously enough, they don’t realize the potential damage that can occure, so they ignorantly commute to and fro. At the same time, we as a race know full well the stastistics of the number of accidents that regularly occure, in fact, you are given little more then a slap on the hand, if anything at all if you get in a wreck, this includes your insurance rates, for it’s accepted. Do we decide to create a better system, or do we decide it’s more economical to leave the current system in place.

What I’m saying here, she died for man’s decision to place fiscal incentive over human life, plain and simple, we made that choice through the majority and this is what happens as a result, so if you want to point fingers, point it at man, not God, for this is mans fault, not his.

 

[thirdn6]

Spacer,

I’m just confused…

You’ve said you’ve been praying everyday for 20 years… but then you just turned 21 last Feb 27.

Simple arithmetic. You couldn’t be praying when you were less than a year old. Were you really a Catholic?

---

Be angry, and sin not… Give not place to the devil.
Ephesians 4:26-27 +

 

[AverageJohn]

Obviously isn’t too concerned with his faith if he seeks life changing advice on a message board. Go talk to a priest.

 

[Koopa]

Think of a video game the “creator” decided how the game was to be played. He set the rules. He designed the characters. He planned the layout and picked the music. But He does not “control” how we “play” the game. He gives us the options but we are the ones who make the choices.

OOOHHHHHH I love that!:clapping: (See name)

A perfect blend of video games and religion. Now that is something I can understand.

Clearly spacer is having a very hard time. Let’s not be unkind to him.

Well, the main thing here, I would say, is that God created man with a free will because if they didn’t CHOOSE to love God, they wouldn’t actually love Him. God can do ANYTHING except force us to love Him, because that is an oxymoron. If someone is being forced to love than they do not really love.

Because of this, we have free will, and with this free will, we may choose not to love God. This causes sin and this causes suffering; not only for us but for others.

I’d also like to say that we all actually DO deserve our suffering, save those like the unborn (others causing one suffering). Even the slightest venial sin is so abominable that suffering is needed for redemption. The culmination of human suffering, however, was thrown upon one who hadn’t sinned (one causing others good). So never forget God’s love for you. May the image of the crucifix be ingrained upon your heart. +

May God bless you through our good Mother’s intercession.

 

[myredeemerlives]

These are all GREAT questions, but don’t let them rob your faith.

First things first, God is not to blame for the evil in the world or the way things are. The blame lies with the enemy and with ourselves for disobeying God.

When Adam sinned, sin and evil entered the world as well as death. That is why we have the fallen world we do. We all have sinned against God, and all deserve His wrath… but God being GOOD and merciful He provides a way for us to be forgiven through the death of His son.

Nowhere in the bible does God promise us a good life or a an easy life but He does promise to never leave us or forsake us. Hold onto Jesus, for He is the way the truth and the life.

He loves you.

 

[OnlyAmbrose]

I don’t reject the big bang theory, but if you knew about string theories you would understand it’s a cycle that has been going on(theoretically)forever. Potentially yes, I mean look as to what we are doing now? We live in space, that has to count for something.
They realized that at one point there was mountains on Mars hence a fresh source of water. Gliese 581 C which is a planet about 50 light years away was found to harbor water. Water produces life as we know it.

The string theory is being largely discredited. You need just as much, if not more, faith to believe in such an unsupported theory as you do to believe in God.

 

[myredeemerlives]

Evolution is a great theory if in fact the earth were millions of years old! The truth is we live on a young earth. There is plenty of proof of a world wide flood (ever wonder where we get all those fossils from?) Plus there is no recorded history of human beings prior to around 7,000 years ago… nothing! No recorded history at all. Makes you think doesn’t it. Go to you tube and look for a guy called Venomfangx he will show you some great stuff as evidence for God.