Prove of Heaven and Hell

[BrunoMaria]

Prove of Heaven and Hell - is there any? I say no. A no that’s valid for the secular world. Atheists often ask us that silly question there is no prove of neither - so there is no Heaven, no God, no Hell. Even “greatest” celebrated and honored Philosophers taught so and some added; I have a thinking brain, so I don’t believe! (They would if there was any prove).

In another thread I had written:
"There is no way to offer any evidence even to the being of heaven and hell. The cleverest people of this world tried to - all in vain. But we all will see "

Yes, we all will see God - believers as disbelivers will, when they are judged right after they walked through that door to see God - the door named death.

Actually we can know that there is a heaven and hell by the Church’s Teaching. It is quite clear on this. I do not know why people seem to think that heaven and hell do not exist.

so I answered:
as to my word: No evidence even to the being of heaven and hell; there’s a misunderstanding.
Of course there is heaven and hell, and Heaven and Hell is even more real than we here on earth are! No question about that! I never doubted that in all my long 76 years I lived!!! and I think I even can say before God: - “Yes - I NEVER DOUBTED”

But even Jesus Himself did OF COURSE not prove all He said about heaven and hell, but Jesus taught in a way, that he who’s got ears to hear and eyes to see, certainly was convinced. Others where not, because there was no prove TO THEM (whatever prove we believers see). If there was, we did not need belief, for we had prove.

Sorry I had written in a mistakable way - (I am German and speak a funny English

Yours
Bruno

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

Prove of Heaven and Hell - is there any? I say no. A no that’s valid for the secular world. Atheists often ask us that silly question there is no prove of neither - so there is no Heaven, no God, no Hell. Even “greatest” celebrated and honored Philosophers taught so and some added; I have a thinking brain, so I don’t believe! (They would if there was any prove).

In another thread I had written:
"There is no way to offer any evidence even to the being of heaven and hell. The cleverest people of this world tried to - all in vain. But we all will see "

Yes, we all will see God - believers as disbelivers will, when they are judged right after they walked through that door to see God - the door named death.

so I answered:
as to my word: No evidence even to the being of heaven and hell; there’s a misunderstanding.
Of course there is heaven and hell, and Heaven and Hell is even more real than we here on earth are! No question about that! I never doubted that in all my long 76 years I lived!!! and I think I even can say before God: - “Yes - I NEVER DOUBTED”

But even Jesus Himself did OF COURSE not prove all He said about heaven and hell, but Jesus taught in a way, that he who’s got ears to hear and eyes to see, certainly was convinced. Others where not, because there was no prove TO THEM (whatever prove we believers see). If there was, we did not need belief, for we had prove.

Sorry I had written in a mistakable way - (I am German and speak a funny English

Yours
Bruno

There is no proof that there is a cure for AIDS, so there is none.
There is no proof that the Universe has an end, so there is none.
There is no proof that there is an ultimate particile, so there is none.
There is no proof of how Aspirin works, so it does not work.
There is no proof of a unified theory of mathematics, so there is none.
There is no proof that we may be albe to go to Mars, so let’s not try it.
There is no proof on how Hitler was killed, so he is alive.
There is no proof that in the end of the Universe there are dragons spitting fire and fishes that run and elephants tha fly, so there are.
There is no proof that I am going to die, so I am not going to die. After all, I never died.

 

[trickster]

Hello BrunoMaria…your english is excellent! I wish that I could read and write in both languages.

Here’s my take… it is not really important to me whether or not there is a hell…my faith is based on my relationship with my Creator and my relationship with Jesus…the old saying “heaven can wait” is my motto since I have a lot of work to do in God’s will…and whether or not there is a hell, who cares, my love for God should not be fear based…

I don’t believe in the classical images of hell (fire, brimstone, all that good fundamentalist evangelical stuff) as we know that this creation come from midieval Europe (Dante’s Comedy), readings in the Hebrew Bible speak of a resting place, no place of fire and torture…when you die, you go to sleep…I am not sure if this is true after the resurrection though…that is where my theology breaks down a bit…so would appreciate anythoughts around that…

Anyways, unless you and I screw up really big time, we are not going to hell…we have been given that promise…I am part of God and God cannot be separated from me either, I do not live in a fear based Catholicism…I live in a celebratory faith where I feel loved and only sinning against the Holy Spirit will see me in hell…

Look forward to more of your thoughts, and don’t worry about your english translations of German…you are an awesome english writer

Trickster (Aboriginal Term for Transfomation)
Bruce Ferguson

 

[PiousTemplar]

If there was no Hell, what was the point of Jesus dying for us? The entire Good News is based on how to get to heaven and save your soul!

 

[trickster]

If there was no Hell, what was the point of Jesus dying for us? The entire Good News is based on how to get to heaven and save your soul!

Hi Pious Templar…good point! Actually its a point very central to our faith too

I don’t disagree with you at all…what I was commenting upon was the stereotypical views the average catholic has with respect to the fire and brimestone and a torturous God who will allow the survival of Satan and the eternal damnation and torture of souls that he created…

The theological facts and scriptural studies just don’t support that notion of hell…it is quite the invention of Dante’s Comedy (the description of hell - not the concept or reality of hell) that Jesus talks about…my understanding is that hell may be an everlasting separation from God as if we never existed…whcih is a far cry from being tortured.

It is equally important to me that my faith is not based on heaven or hell as that should not be my motivation to love my Creator and my Lord…with all my heart soul and mind…hell is a reality created for bad angels and was never meant for humanity…and that’s another part I need to do more exploration on…

Look forward to your thoughts on this Pious Templar…cheerz.

Trickster (Aboriginal Word For Transformation)
Bruce Ferguson

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings BrunoMaria,

I have found this thread after much looking for it in Today’s Posts. I will subscribe as I am very interested in what others have to say about that.

God Bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[BrunoMaria]

I just posted this into some members “MailCircle”:

… Any enemy’s main task is: - to be assumed inexistent! Hell is highly successful in that. Only 1% of even somehow religious people, believe in hell’s existence. Even many Catholics don’t. I was confronted with the question; "-why ponder about hell - we are to stick to divine, spiritual things. Not hell nor devil.…
OK - but why then spoke Jesus so often about hell and Satan’s daemons - such as in Mt 5,22. 29; 13, 42. 50; Mk 9,43-48 and others?!
Too many even think: “…since God can’t else but love, he’ll send nobody to hell”. A silly sentence I fought for many years in many forums and talks. Why then if that where so, would Jesus say in Mt 25,41: ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels’.

Secular “science” says. “The universe is empty - so there is no heaven - not to speak even of hell”. - All who say so, call God and name Jesus a liar.
He who is a believer, doesn’t simply “believe” that there is God, as BELIEF is not a thing one sort of assumes or kind of supposes to be true, but it’s God’s word and will and revelation, and therefore the one and only real truth there is. God the Father revealed to us through Moses and the Prophets all about BELIEF The Fathers begotten Son Jesus, fortified and revealed even more divine truths. All this, together with the visible creation, which is of the most perfect harmony from the vast universe to the smallest quark of an atom, reflects God’s being. Believers recognize God in every seed of a grass which, as “simple” and small as it is, never will be feasible by humans, as well as we can recognize God in natures harmony and beauty. If there was no creating and preserving God - the one and only God who revealed Himself often enough and still does - then all would grow cancer-like into chaos and wreck in havoc.

We really must learn to speak and think openly in divine terms; meaning the words Jesus clarified and not keep setting HEAVEN and HELL in quotation marks - sort of excusing ourselves when taking self-evidently about it. The greatest “it” we own.

as to PROVE OF HEAVEN AND HELL, above “Trickster” wrote:

it is not really important to me whether or not there is a hell… my faith is based on my relationship with my Creator and my relationship with Jesus…the old saying “heaven can wait” is my motto since I have a lot of work to do in God’s will…and whether or not there is a hell, who cares, my love for God should not be fear based…<

It’s enough to concentrate on Heaven and God, for as soon as we loose the enemy out of our eyes - we are vulnerable and an easy target. If these other things in God’s hemisphere (like Satan and Hell) would be unimportant, Jesus wouldn’t have mentioned both so often. Jesus NEVER said anything unimportant.

“Trickster” wrote also:

The theological facts and scriptural studies just don’t support that notion of hell… it is quite the invention of Dante’s Comedy (the description of hell - not the concept or reality of hell) that Jesus talks about…my understanding is that hell may be an everlasting separation from God as if we never existed…which is a far cry from being tortured.<

Well; - can anyone imagine a greater torture than after entering God’s hemisphere right after death and seeing God when being judged (as every human will) - than after this to be condemned into being away from God in all eternity?! Truly not! And this torture of endless homesickness for God’s kingdom, is far more than the Gospels true illustration of any fire and brimstone. Whoever experienced a strong homesickness, knows how it burns. And how much more burns homesickness for being not with God one has seen face to face.

“Trickster” wrote also:

…hell is a reality created for bad angels and was never meant for humanity…<

Hell was created for the fallen Angels; true. But as Jesus often told us; God’s condemnation means same hell for humans just as well. So the idle wish Hell wouldn’t concern us, remains a lie that neglects and rebukes Jesus’ warnings. We don’t even need Dante nor The Dore Illustrations for Dante’s Divine Comedy to imagine Hell. Jesus Himself told us enough about it.

Yours
Bruno
Holzschnitzereien{/}Krippenfiguren.com
is my personal mail-address
the {/} means @ which I replaced here - as in the Net one should not expose ones Mail-Address - else he’s drowned with spam. So for PM - please write directly to me, as to me and my age it’s too laborious to find/answer PM’s here in CAF. Tanks.

 

[trickster]

Hello Bruno…

I want to emphasis that I do not disagree with you…as Catholics we obviously believe in heaven and hell…what I was articulating is that I don’t necessary consider or believe it to be important to get into the argument of whether or not there was actual fire and other imaging from the medieval Dante’s Comedy play, that’s all.

The fear based arguements that more or less tell us to be good Catholics because if we are not, we will go to hell is what I am reacting too…that is the glass half-empty arguement…I am simply augmenting that with the glass half full analogy…that my motivation for being a good Catholic is based on my love for God, his love for me and not any fear based motivations to keep me out of hell…

Does that make better sense to you in terms of what I am trying to say? Back to you Bruno…

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster (Aboriginal Symbol / Word for Transformation)

 

[jcrichton]

Prove of Heaven and Hell - is there any? I say no. A no that’s valid for the secular world. Atheists often ask us that silly question there is no prove of neither - so there is no Heaven, no God, no Hell. Even “greatest” celebrated and honored Philosophers taught so and some added; I have a thinking brain, so I don’t believe! (They would if there was any prove).

In another thread I had written:
"There is no way to offer any evidence even to the being of heaven and hell. The cleverest people of this world tried to - all in vain. But we all will see "

Yes, we all will see God - believers as disbelivers will, when they are judged right after they walked through that door to see God - the door named death.

so I answered:
as to my word: No evidence even to the being of heaven and hell; there’s a misunderstanding.
Of course there is heaven and hell, and Heaven and Hell is even more real than we here on earth are! No question about that! I never doubted that in all my long 76 years I lived!!! and I think I even can say before God: - “Yes - I NEVER DOUBTED”

But even Jesus Himself did OF COURSE not prove all He said about heaven and hell, but Jesus taught in a way, that he who’s got ears to hear and eyes to see, certainly was convinced. Others where not, because there was no prove TO THEM (whatever prove we believers see). If there was, we did not need belief, for we had prove.

Sorry I had written in a mistakable way - (I am German and speak a funny English

Yours
Bruno

Hi, Bruno!

…there is no scientific proof that there is Heaven or Hell–there’s no way to prove or disprove it with science since science only deals with that which can be seen; tested, and experienced in some quantifiable manner…

…what I find interesting is that science can claim that “x” thing happened “x” millions of years ago or that “y” star imploded and created darkmass or that it exploded and created s shower of energy “xy” millions of years ago or that two masses found themselves as they traveled in opposite direction yet met in the vastness of nothingness with just enough force to create the known universe, etc… etc… all of that based on unquantifiable fact but taught as pure nonfiction…

…if someone truly wanted to know if there’s proof about Heaven all that needs to be done is follow the crumbs: every single scientific finding has been done in the absence of existence (the atom, radio wave signals, infra red, photography, x-rays, gravity, emc2 and all of the rest); not a single discovery began outside of man’s mind–but when we slow down enough we can pounder, how did it get there?

…and as far as Jesus’ proof… He states that none but the Son of Man can reveal what exists in Heaven for He comes from Heaven!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hello BrunoMaria…your english is excellent! I wish that I could read and write in both languages.

Here’s my take… it is not really important to me whether or not there is a hell…my faith is based on my relationship with my Creator and my relationship with Jesus…the old saying “heaven can wait” is my motto since I have a lot of work to do in God’s will…and whether or not there is a hell, who cares, my love for God should not be fear based…

I don’t believe in the classical images of hell (fire, brimstone, all that good fundamentalist evangelical stuff) as we know that this creation come from midieval Europe (Dante’s Comedy), readings in the Hebrew Bible speak of a resting place, no place of fire and torture…when you die, you go to sleep…I am not sure if this is true after the resurrection though…that is where my theology breaks down a bit…so would appreciate anythoughts around that…

Anyways, unless you and I screw up really big time, we are not going to hell…we have been given that promise…I am part of God and God cannot be separated from me either, I do not live in a fear based Catholicism…I live in a celebratory faith where I feel loved and only sinning against the Holy Spirit will see me in hell…

Look forward to more of your thoughts, and don’t worry about your english translations of German…you are an awesome english writer

Trickster (Aboriginal Term for Transfomation)
Bruce Ferguson

Hi, Bruce… but it is not just a take from Dante’s… Jesus speaks about Hell as that place that was created for Satan (Lucifer) and his followers… and he examplifies hell in the Teachings about not sinning: if your eye/hand causes you to sin… for it is better for you to pluck/cut it out than to be thrown into the fire where the wrom never dies and there’s that gnashing of teeth… that to me is a clear depiction of endless torment…

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Hi Pious Templar…good point! Actually its a point very central to our faith too

I don’t disagree with you at all…what I was commenting upon was the stereotypical views the average catholic has with respect to the fire and brimestone and a torturous God who will allow the survival of Satan and the eternal damnation and torture of souls that he created…

The theological facts and scriptural studies just don’t support that notion of hell…it is quite the invention of Dante’s Comedy (the description of hell - not the concept or reality of hell) that Jesus talks about…my understanding is that hell may be an everlasting separation from God as if we never existed…whcih is a far cry from being tortured.

It is equally important to me that my faith is not based on heaven or hell as that should not be my motivation to love my Creator and my Lord…with all my heart soul and mind…hell is a reality created for bad angels and was never meant for humanity…and that’s another part I need to do more exploration on…

Look forward to your thoughts on this Pious Templar…cheerz.

Trickster (Aboriginal Word For Transformation)
Bruce Ferguson

…I’m no scholar… but are you sure that Jesus talks about hell as being the separation from God? I think that the good and kind-hearted theologeans may be selling the idea that the worse of hell is just a separation from God ('cause a *good *God would not send people to such horrific place…"); my pedestrial theology might be way off but I tend to take things on face value… remember the encounter of Jesus and the demon, the one where the demon calls Him out and tells Him that he knows who He is, the Just One of God… and why have you come to torment me before time? …hell may not be a tool used by God to torment spirit but it certainly is a place of torment, feared even by demons!

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

I just posted this into some members “MailCircle”:

… Any enemy’s main task is: - to be assumed inexistent! Hell is highly successful in that. Only 1% of even somehow religious people, believe in hell’s existence. Even many Catholics don’t. I was confronted with the question; "-why ponder about hell - we are to stick to divine, spiritual things. Not hell nor devil.…
OK - but why then spoke Jesus so often about hell and Satan’s daemons - such as in Mt 5,22. 29; 13, 42. 50; Mk 9,43-48 and others?!
Too many even think: “…since God can’t else but love, he’ll send nobody to hell”. A silly sentence I fought for many years in many forums and talks. Why then if that where so, would Jesus say in Mt 25,41: ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels’.

Secular “science” says. “The universe is empty - so there is no heaven - not to speak even of hell”. - All who say so, call God and name Jesus a liar.
He who is a believer, doesn’t simply “believe” that there is God, as BELIEF is not a thing one sort of assumes or kind of supposes to be true, but it’s God’s word and will and revelation, and therefore the one and only real truth there is. God the Father revealed to us through Moses and the Prophets all about BELIEF The Fathers begotten Son Jesus, fortified and revealed even more divine truths. All this, together with the visible creation, which is of the most perfect harmony from the vast universe to the smallest quark of an atom, reflects God’s being. Believers recognize God in every seed of a grass which, as “simple” and small as it is, never will be feasible by humans, as well as we can recognize God in natures harmony and beauty. If there was no creating and preserving God - the one and only God who revealed Himself often enough and still does - then all would grow cancer-like into chaos and wreck in havoc.

We really must learn to speak and think openly in divine terms; meaning the words Jesus clarified and not keep setting HEAVEN and HELL in quotation marks - sort of excusing ourselves when taking self-evidently about it. The greatest “it” we own.

as to PROVE OF HEAVEN AND HELL, above “Trickster” wrote:

it is not really important to me whether or not there is a hell… my faith is based on my relationship with my Creator and my relationship with Jesus…the old saying “heaven can wait” is my motto since I have a lot of work to do in God’s will…and whether or not there is a hell, who cares, my love for God should not be fear based…<

The only fact about Hell is that God does not send/sentence anyone to Hell (Ezekiel 18); rather we choose Hell when we reject God (St. John 3:15-20; Apocalypse 16:10-11).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[trickster]

Hi, Bruce… but it is not just a take from Dante’s… Jesus speaks about Hell as that place that was created for Satan (Lucifer) and his followers… and he examplifies hell in the Teachings about not sinning: if your eye/hand causes you to sin… for it is better for you to pluck/cut it out than to be thrown into the fire where the wrom never dies and there’s that gnashing of teeth… that to me is a clear depiction of endless torment…

Maran atha!

Angel

Hello jcrichton (Angel)…like I said, I have no problem believing that a hell exists…I think I have emphasised that. What got me so quoted is that I questioned the stereotypical images of heaven … how we have traditionally understood hell prior to Vatican II and now…however, I think with the increased conservativism in the church we have gone almost full circle back to those images…of fire, brimstone, etc…

I don’t pretend to be a biblical scholar or anything…but does Jesus refer to “fire” when he speaks of hell…or does he refer to Gehanna or a place of death…which would make more sense to me…the idea of hell in the Hebrew mind of his day would of seen hell as a permanent death…and I also know that hell was originally created for bad angels, then membership opened up for humans So, that is all I am saying is that I don’t believe and in fact think those traditional catholic images of hell minimize the horror of a place where you are aware that you are not in God’s presence…

Most biblical scholars these days agree that many of Jesus’ words were metaphors, certainly the church teaches us not to cut off our hands, its just an example to underline the seriousness of how we participate in our sins…the gnashing of teeth thing…is that an expression or a statement of fact? Have you had a chance to do some reading on the original greek words (and their socio-cultural and historical context) in trying to undersand the words in the bible to rwhich would justify and reflect a medieval interpretation? It’s very interesting isn’t it?

Cheerz for now…I look forward to our conversation on this piece…

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster (Aboriginal Concept of Transformation)

 

[jcrichton]

Hello jcrichton (Angel)…like I said, I have no problem believing that a hell exists…I think I have emphasised that. What got me so quoted is that I questioned the stereotypical images of heaven … how we have traditionally understood hell prior to Vatican II and now…however, I think with the increased conservativism in the church we have gone almost full circle back to those images…of fire, brimstone, etc…

I don’t pretend to be a biblical scholar or anything…but does Jesus refer to “fire” when he speaks of hell…or does he refer to Gehanna or a place of death…which would make more sense to me…the idea of hell in the Hebrew mind of his day would of seen hell as a permanent death…and I also know that hell was originally created for bad angels, then membership opened up for humans So, that is all I am saying is that I don’t believe and in fact think those traditional catholic images of hell minimize the horror of a place where you are aware that you are not in God’s presence…

Most biblical scholars these days agree that many of Jesus’ words were metaphors, certainly the church teaches us not to cut off our hands, its just an example to underline the seriousness of how we participate in our sins…the gnashing of teeth thing…is that an expression or a statement of fact? Have you had a chance to do some reading on the original greek words (and their socio-cultural and historical context) in trying to undersand the words in the bible to rwhich would justify and reflect a medieval interpretation? It’s very interesting isn’t it?

Cheerz for now…I look forward to our conversation on this piece…

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster (Aboriginal Concept of Transformation)

I concur with you that when taken out of context Scriptures do seem to depict a different picture/value… cutural roots and ideom also tend to throw in slants and variants… I remember arguing the “eye of the needle” issue… don’t know where I picked it up (could have been from the notes on my Bible) but it took years for my friend to admit that there was a geographical place that Jesus may have been citing (note that he still did not fully accept the argument)–in the long run, he lost perspective, as many do, as he could not translate the value: it is difficult for the wealthy to enter Salvation because they have a hard time letting go of temporal values and accepting God’s Will…

…and while I also agree that Jesus did use metaphors, it does not negate the fact that He Taught what He Taught (Divine Revelation)… was Jesus just being graphic about Hell or was he using imagery to bring home the burning facts about Hell–remember Judaism was (perhaps it still is) fractured into many branches of thought… one of the more salient is its denial of hell; God is Spirit; we are Created in God’s image and likeness; hence, there is in us a portion of God’s Spirit; the Spirit is Eternal: hence, there’s a portion of us that will remain and be resurrected into Life (in God’s presence) or into Death (eternal damnation).

…I do not share your views about the Church’s Teachings… I cannot recall when it was that I heard a Priest’s homily focus or even mention the perils of Hell and the fact that even those who claim to be Catholics, by default are heading into the wide path that leads to perdition!

…maybe I have a personal bias against scholastic/theological findings… but I am not moved by much of what I hear… and root meanings (study of original text) have very little influence on me… I’ve yet to find that new age scholars/theologeans or linguist present findings that are not tainted with personal preconception… (ditto the history/science channel); when theology is concerned I see most of the findings neatly packed into the perspective of the “professionals” (the true miracle is that people shared what they brought not that Jesus actually performed any supenatural deed; Moses had prior knowledge that the red-sea would retract; the plauges were naturally occurring phenomenas; the Shroud of Turim crafted (albino monks perhaps?); hell: life on earth…); please understand that I do think that studying Scriptures and the language of origin is an excellent and worthwhile endeavor… my problem is with the findings on these studies–they tend to remove God from Scriptures and augment man’s ego (never before seen, understood, obscured, hidden, not scared to bring forth, etc…); heard the one about Jesus and Cephas/Kephas or the one about highly favored?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[fisherman_carl]

A little bit of fear can motivate a person to act. For example, if I see a bear in the woods that can motivate me to avoid him. Some fear can also be useful to motivate me to go to work or perform certain tasks. However, too much fear quickly has diminishing returns. Too much fear causes paralysis. Would Jesus be telling us about hell so that we are constantly fearful and paralyzed? What would be the good news about that?

When we think about hell, it can be very unnerving for some people. I think we need to always underscore that God’s mercy is much greater. Jesus died on the cross to bring us salvation. While he did talk about hell, his primary mission was to fulfill both the law and the prophets and to bring us freedom from condemnation. Romans 8:1 says, "Hence, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. "

In 1 John 4 it says, “God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him. In this is love brought to perfection among us, that we have confidence on the day of judgment because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and so one who fears is not yet perfect in love. We love because he first loved us.”

How can one living in paralyzing fear have confidence on the day of judgment? The one who fears is not perfected in love because they do not realize that God is love and if we remain in God we remain in that love. The source of our confidence is from God, his love for us. We can love because he first loved us. Thus, we can have hope and faith that he will bring us safely to his heavenly kingdom if we remain in him.

 

[jcrichton]

A little bit of fear can motivate a person to act. For example, if I see a bear in the woods that can motivate me to avoid him. Some fear can also be useful to motivate me to go to work or perform certain tasks. However, too much fear quickly has diminishing returns. Too much fear causes paralysis. Would Jesus be telling us about hell so that we are constantly fearful and paralyzed? What would be the good news about that?

When we think about hell, it can be very unnerving for some people. I think we need to always underscore that God’s mercy is much greater. Jesus died on the cross to bring us salvation. While he did talk about hell, his primary mission was to fulfill both the law and the prophets and to bring us freedom from condemnation. Romans 8:1 says, "Hence, now there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. "

In 1 John 4 it says, “God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him. In this is love brought to perfection among us, that we have confidence on the day of judgment because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love drives out fear because fear has to do with punishment, and so one who fears is not yet perfect in love. We love because he first loved us.”

How can one living in paralyzing fear have confidence on the day of judgment? The one who fears is not perfected in love because they do not realize that God is love and if we remain in God we remain in that love. The source of our confidence is from God, his love for us. We can love because he first loved us. Thus, we can have hope and faith that he will bring us safely to his heavenly kingdom if we remain in him.

…one thing is to instill fear… but it is quite a different thing to create a false sence of security where Hell does not exists or is only for Lucifer or will be destroyed at Judgment or our present existence is the actual Hell theologies… all to minimize the responsibility of Christians to stay clear off the path that does lead to damnation!

Jesus did not preach that we should be fearful of Hell; yet, He did not Teach that all will be Saved! …and just as Peter began to sink when he was concerned more with the temoral values than with Christ’s Power and Authority, we too, Catholic and non-Catholic will fail if we deny that Hell is real and those who reject Christ’s Commandment will surely end up deep in it!

Jesus was very gracious, He revealed that we are not to fear those who only have power over our temporal existence (which I believe is inclusive of Hell) but that we must fear the One who has the Power over both the temporal and Spiritual realms! (St. John 15:1-10)

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[fisherman_carl]

…one thing is to instill fear… but it is quite a different thing to create a false sence of security where Hell does not exists or is only for Lucifer or will be destroyed at Judgment or our present existence is the actual Hell theologies… all to minimize the responsibility of Christians to stay clear off the path that does lead to damnation!

Jesus did not preach that we should be fearful of Hell; yet, He did not Teach that all will be Saved! …and just as Peter began to sink when he was concerned more with the temoral values than with Christ’s Power and Authority, we too, Catholic and non-Catholic will fail if we deny that Hell is real and those who reject Christ’s Commandment will surely end up deep in it!

Jesus was very gracious, He revealed that we are not to fear those who only have power over our temporal existence (which I believe is inclusive of Hell) but that we must fear the One who has the Power over both the temporal and Spiritual realms! (St. John 15:1-10)

Maran atha!

Angel

It is true that we shouldn’t have a false sense of security and that hell is real. However, too much fear actually paralyzes people. They are unable to do anything because they are trapped in fear. Jesus came to set us free. Jesus said:

“Fear is useless; what is needed is trust.”( Luke 8:50, Mark 5:36)

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=31946

 

[jcrichton]

It is true that we shouldn’t have a false sense of security and that hell is real. However, too much fear actually paralyzes people. They are unable to do anything because they are trapped in fear. Jesus came to set us free. Jesus said:

“Fear is useless; what is needed is trust.”( Luke 8:50, Mark 5:36)

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=31946

…seriously, when was the last time your parish Priests had a homily on the perils of Hell or damnation or the reality of Hell or who will end up deep in it?

…I’ve not heard anything for years… so where’s all this “putting the fear…” coming from?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[fisherman_carl]

…seriously, when was the last time your parish Priests had a homily on the perils of Hell or damnation or the reality of Hell or who will end up deep in it?

…I’ve not heard anything for years… so where’s all this “putting the fear…” coming from?

Maran atha!

Angel

It comes from my own experience. Having struggled with the fear of hell in the past I know that one can not progress in the spiritual life through fear. It can only come through trust and love in the God who loved us first. The point I am making is that to focus only on the fear of hell to the exclusion of God’s mercy puts an imbalance on things. It makes God seem like an angry tyrant. Truth should be most important. And the truth is that God is merciful and we should never forget that. If we repent and confess our sins we will be forgiven (1 Jn 1:9).

If there is hope to avoid hell through Jesus Christ, and I don’t just mean by becoming Mother Theresa, but for the average imperfect Catholic on the street, then we can put our faith and trust in Christ who will bring us safely to his heavenly kingdom.

“The Lord will rescue me from every evil threat and will bring me safe to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory forever and ever. Amen.”

• 2 Tim 4:18

 

[jcrichton]

It comes from my own experience. Having struggled with the fear of hell in the past I know that one can not progress in the spiritual life through fear. It can only come through trust and love in the God who loved us first. The point I am making is that to focus only on the fear of hell to the exclusion of God’s mercy puts an imbalance on things. It makes God seem like an angry tyrant. Truth should be most important. And the truth is that God is merciful and we should never forget that. If we repent and confess our sins we will be forgiven (1 Jn 1:9).

If there is hope to avoid hell through Jesus Christ, and I don’t just mean by becoming Mother Theresa, but for the average imperfect Catholic on the street, then we can put our faith and trust in Christ who will bring us safely to his heavenly kingdom.

“The Lord will rescue me from every evil threat and will bring me safe to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory forever and ever. Amen.”

• 2 Tim 4:18

There’s little I can say about your personal experience… personally, I’ve never experienced such fear… please understand that I do not mean to compound your pain nor do I mean to be dismissive of your experience… but I must point out that Mother Theresa’s Vocation developed from her personal response to God’s Calling… it is the same for the average Catholic! We do not need to fear Hell, but we do have to imitate Christ (no not the miracles He performed); we must allow the Holy Spirit to convict us and assist us in our conversion (turning from the world to God) and our fellowship with the Body of Christ… I commend you for your knowledge of Scriptures… and I encourage you, as St. James does, to be doer of the Word!

Maran atha!

Angel