Prove the Church is correct

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Epistemes

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I’m no master apologist since I’m still just a seed (candidate)when it comes to Catholicism. So, while I try to defend the faith, there’s a lot of subjects which I’m oblivious to since my own Catholic spirituality is still forming.

This question was posted by a Muslim in another forum:

**The Church created the Bible or the Bible created the Church?

If the former, to trust the Bible, you have to trust the Church. Can you prove the Church is correct?**

It’s a question appears to have a definite subjective answer, but nothing objective or concrete - which is unfortunate since it is the type of question I would think needed to be addressed in order to establish the foundations of any discussion regarding the Church. I hope someone can provide some answers here, not only for the sake of apologetics, but my own understanding on this issue.
 
Epistemes said:
I’m no master apologist since I’m still just a seed (candidate)when it comes to Catholicism. So, while I try to defend the faith, there’s a lot of subjects which I’m oblivious to since my own Catholic spirituality is still forming.

This question was posted by a Muslim in another forum:

**The Church created the Bible or the Bible created the Church?

If the former, to trust the Bible, you have to trust the Church. Can you prove the Church is correct?**

It’s a question appears to have a definite subjective answer, but nothing objective or concrete - which is unfortunate since it is the type of question I would think needed to be addressed in order to establish the foundations of any discussion regarding the Church. I hope someone can provide some answers here, not only for the sake of apologetics, but my own understanding on this issue.
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The Church definitely preceded the NT. So, the question truly is why trust the Church.

The answer to that is the same one the Apostles gave–because Jesus rose from the dead. His living, glorified body was seen by many others for 40 days afterwards. No other human being has ever done that, which is why we believe the Church and not Mohammad. 😉
 
They are trying to show a circular argument, But the Old Testament points towards Jesus as being The Messiah, and the Old Testament was written before Jesus established his Church.
Jesus taught his disciples when he was here on earth, and what he taught his disciples was in oral form, This oral teaching was believed and taught in the infancy of the Church, but not recorded in writing until many years later. But what is recorded in these writings (The Bible) is what Jesus said and taught.
One of the things that Jesus taught his diciples was recorded in John 14:26

The Advocate, the holy Spirit that the Father will send in my name–he will teach you everything and remind you of all that (I) told you.

I think that you will have to show the Old Testament passages that point to Jesus, and that show he was to be Divine, and also show that there are non biblical records that prove that Jesus existed and was a miracle worker, was crucified.
Josephus is a good resource for that.
Then ask him why the Jews crucified Jesus, the answer is that
He was crucified because of blasphemy,
He claimed to be God
Then if Jesus was Divine, then he had the authority to send the Holy Spirit to his disciples to guard them from error in what they taught.
It will be tough, because if I am not mistaken, the Muslims don’t think that Jesus died on the cross.
 
The definitive answer is - “Take your pick, but either way Muhammed was 500 years too late and didnt manage to rise from the dead.” That ought to get the conversation rolling…
 
Ask him how many people does he know are willing to die at the hands of Roman Executioners just to perpetuate a lie.

This is what the numerous martyrs, who served as lion food, torch light, and numerous other forms of torture would have had to have done if Christianity was a myth.

In numerous cases, all they had to do was to renounce Jesus, and the Romans would have made rich people out of them, as they paraded them around as “proof” about the lie of Jesus.
 
The Church came before the New Testament. The veracity of the New Testament books should be trusted because: 1) the authors of the New Testament were eyewitnesses or close associates of the eyewitnesses of Jesus; 2) the authors lived holy lives; 3) the authors worked miracles; 4) the authors were willing to be put to death rather than recant their testimony.
 
Philthy said:
The definitive answer is - “Take your pick, but either way Muhammed was 500 years too late and didnt manage to rise from the dead.” That ought to get the conversation rolling…
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I like some of the lectures Bishop Sheen gave on claimants and one of the criteria mentioned has to do with being pre-announced…there are other criteria as well and reasons why…

Listen to some of them if you get a chance…
 
We know that Mohammed came before the Koran. Why believe Mohammed?

Christian martyrs are killed for their beliefs.

Islamist martyrs kill for their beliefs.

I choose Jesus!!!
 
Of course the church (those who believed in and followed Christ) came before their own writings which became the Bible.

So did those who believed in and followed Muhammad come to belief in him FIRST, and then THEY wrote down the Quran at his dictation (he didn’t write it himself, he was illiterate). My understanding is that this was done some 20-odd years after Muhammad supposedly was visited and taught th Quran by the angel Gabriel. Funnily enough, the earliest new Testament writings date from probably 20-odd years after Christ’s death as well.
 
I think you are getting ahead of yourself. You need to agree on your terms. Especially, what he means by “proof”. Proof like in a science lab? Proof like algebra? a+b=The Church is the One, Holy, Apostolic Church? Logical proof?

Scott
 
Loaded question. but christianity is the only religion where its founder was announced before he came. Where was Mohamad annoounced, Just turn it back on them.

Don’t really matter though as the moslems will beconverted though our Lady.
 
The way I undestand it Catholics (eg me) do not immediately take the NT as inspired instead we first take the NT as a historical record of true events that happened in time.
There are two main events described in the NT
  1. The birth, ministry, death and resurrection of Jesus.
  2. The institution of a hierarical Church by Jesus which his followers adhered to.
We then determine if this Church in the writtings still exists that proclaims Jesus’ teachings…it does…it is the CC. It is then this Church that validates the NT as being inspired and hence the reason why Catholics believe the NT to be the word of God.

But then again Im sure you all already knew that.

Cheers

Alex
 
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