Prove Transubtantiation and I will convert

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Ronald_E said:
Returning to our Catholic faith after hating it for 40 years was not a choice but instead was an action that was many years in developing after being softened up by God through the study of eastern philosophy. I had a lot of education in psychology and neurobiology and attachment theory. Along with this I was exposed to quantum physics and then God brought in miracles several years ago that would absolutely change my reality. I met a person who was dying of a terminal illness. She had about 5 months to live when we first met. She began to bleed from her hands and I witnessed this one time.This is too long to tell here. Suffice it to say she was cured in '04 when her doctors witnessed her bleeding profusely from her hands during a visit when they had decided to stop treatment because she was so close to death. At that visit she was cured. She is still alive. I returned to our Catholic faith Easter of '05. I had not seen this person for almost 1 year. When I saw her Nov. '05 and informed her about my return to my faith she started to cry and said her hands had stopped bleeding that same Easter. What does this have to do with transubstantiation? This is so complicated. Her illness changed to health without any direct observable evidence. My eyes were opened and I am not the same internally although the same externally. When Christ breathed on His apostles He gave them his essence that could not be seen. They were changed and were given the ability and direction how to pass His essence on to others through the process of the different sacraments. Being born again is internal. Through touch and annointing in the priesthood that was initially given to the apostles is passed to others. It is all connected to Jesus breathing on His apostles right before His ascension into heaven. Humility and belief determine whether or not we benefit from His Word. I tried to be brief, but this is so complicated. I hope this makes sense since I have not proofed this. God Bless.
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Wow, great story! I’m so glad you shared this. And I know exactly what you mean about changing from the inside. I do see the correlation here with transubstantiation. I never heard of it in this way so I’m glad you shared your story with us, thank you.
 
buffalo said:
I have an idea. - Go to Adoration and spend time listening.
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That’s what I told him so I hope that God will give him a “nudge” in that direction; “nudge” being God’s grace of course. 😉
 
This post was taken off another thread where it was off topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadfast
If you can show me where the ECF’s taught and believed that the bread and wine were changed into the Body and Blood of Christ such that the bread and wine ceased to exist only the accidents remaining, I will enroll in RCIA today.
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Hi

I think this is due to exaggeration of the scribes, they were used to it, afterall they were human beings apt to err. This also shows in my opinion that they were not inspired as commonly believed. We are not bound to follow them in their mistakes, perhaps they became somewhat overzealous.

Quran/Islam/Muhammad points out to such a behavior of the scribes:

Quran
[4:171] O mankind! The Messenger has indeed come to you with truth from your Lord; believe therefore, it will be better for you. But if you disbelieve, verily, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and in the earth. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
[4:172] O People of the Book! Exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of His word which He had sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not, ‘They are three.’ Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian.
[4:173] Surely, the Messiah disdains not to be a servant of Allah, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoso disdains to worship Him and is proud, He will gather them all to Himself.
Unqoute

I love Jesus and Mary. I respect your religion.

Thaks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

I think this is due to exaggeration of the scribes, they were used to it, afterall they were human beings apt to err. This also shows in my opinion that they were not inspired as commonly believed. We are not bound to follow them in their mistakes, perhaps they became somewhat overzealous.

Quran/Islam/Muhammad points out to such a behavior of the scribes:

Quran
[4:171] O mankind! The Messenger has indeed come to you with truth from your Lord; believe therefore, it will be better for you. But if you disbelieve, verily, to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and in the earth. And Allah is All-Knowing, Wise.
[4:172] O People of the Book! Exceed not the limits in your religion, and say not of Allah anything but the truth. Verily, the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of Allah, and a fulfilment of His word which He had sent down to Mary, and a mercy from Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers, and say not, ‘They are three.’ Desist, it will be better for you. Verily, Allah is the only One God. Holy is He, far above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. And sufficient is Allah as a guardian.
[4:173] Surely, the Messiah disdains not to be a servant of Allah, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoso disdains to worship Him and is proud, He will gather them all to Himself.
Unqoute

I love Jesus and Mary. I respect your religion.

Thaks
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It has always been curious to me how Islam can concieve of the Word of God becoming paper and ink (Quran) yet it is scandalous to Islam to think that God became man.
The Father (Allah) gave everything to His only begotten Son, that is, Jesus Christ, the One, True, Lord and God of all. And yes, God is Triune. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit…One God.

And I too love Jesus, true God from true God. And Mary Theotokos. And I love you… In you there is the life that is sustained by God’s Word. Jesus is the Word of God made flesh.
 
The Father (Allah) gave everything to His only begotten Son, that is, Jesus Christ
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Hi

I don’t think that ever happened.

Quran
[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say 'He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] 'He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.
Unquote

Thanks
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi

I don’t think that ever happened.

Quran
[112:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[112:2] Say 'He is Allah, the One!
[112:3] Allah the Independent and Besought of all.
[112:4] 'He begets not, nor, is He begotten,
[112:5] And there is none like unto Him.
Unquote

Thanks
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Your true colors are starting to show here.
This same Jesus Christ will someday return in glory with all His angels to judge the living and the dead, and His Kingdom will have no end. Then, every Muslim and every Jew and every protestant will return to the one true faith.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
 
I haven’t read the whole thread.

But I assume someone has already mentioned this nifty little sidebar:

“Eucharistic Miracles” by Joan Carroll Cruz.
 
Uh, I don’t think Allah is the same as our Yhwh. Wasn’t Allah a moon-god of ancient arabia? I thought that he was just some common pagan godling.
 
Metaron said:
Uh, I don’t think Allah is the same as our Yhwh. Wasn’t Allah a moon-god of ancient arabia? I thought that he was just some common pagan godling.
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No Metaron,

That much still unites us. The Muslim, Jewish and Christian share the same first 5 books of the Bible, The Pentateuch. So yes, it is the same God of Jacob, God of Isaac, God of Abraham.
The Messiah, Jesus Christ, is the stumbling block for both Jews and Muslims.

Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
 
Metaron said:
Uh, I don’t think Allah is the same as our Yhwh. Wasn’t Allah a moon-god of ancient arabia? I thought that he was just some common pagan godling.
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You were wrong. “Allah” was the term used for the “high god” above all other gods, and has always been the term Jewish and Christian Arabs use for the one true God. The fallacious “moon god” argument stems from the claim (which itself may or may not be true as far as I know) that the moon god Sin was sometimes referred to by Arabs as “al-ilah,” “the god.” In other words, “al-ilah” or “Allah” was the Arab term for the supreme God, so those who worshiped the moon god above all others might use the word to describe him. But “Allah” was never a specific name for a moon god.

You should stop reading fundamentalist propaganda and start reading real scholarship. There’s good scholarship out there–I recently bought the Cambridge Companion to the Qur’an, for instance, which has a lot of great information.

Edwin
 
paarsurrey said:
This post was taken off another thread where it was off topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steadfast
If you can show me where the ECF’s taught and believed that the bread and wine were changed into the Body and Blood of Christ such that the bread and wine ceased to exist only the accidents remaining, I will enroll in RCIA today.
Hi

I think this is due to exaggeration of the scribes, they were used to it, afterall they were human beings apt to err. This also shows in my opinion that they were not inspired as commonly believed. We are not bound to follow them in their mistakes, perhaps they became somewhat overzealous.
Click to expand...
If you can think that way about the “scribes” or the Catholic Church, there is none that could prevent others from thinking the same way about Islam, isn’t it? The truth is: Our Lord Jesus Himself, holding the bread up, said: THIS IS MY BODY. By those words, he changed the bread substantially into His body.
 
mangy_dog said:
Your true colors are starting to show here.
This same Jesus Christ will someday return in glory with all His angels to judge the living and the dead, and His Kingdom will have no end. Then, every Muslim and every Jew and every protestant will return to the one true faith.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
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Dear all,
Let us be generous in our remarks. Whenever we give our views, we need to appreciate and put ourselves in the shoes of the other people. We can win over more people with our kind attitude rather than convincing with a lot of logical arguements.

There are certain beliefs which are common with others. Let us cement our relations with those beliefs. There are certain beliefs which need to be clarified. Let us do so with an open mind. **There are certain beliefs which are basically different from each other. Let us keep these beliefs to ourselves and respect each other and pray for each other. **

May God Bless all those who read these lines.

Warm regards,
Fredrick Correa, Nairobi.

When wicked men blaspheme thee, I love and Bless thy name!
 
Fredrick_Correa said:
Dear all,
Let us be generous in our remarks. Whenever we give our views, we need to appreciate and put ourselves in the shoes of the other people. We can win over more people with our kind attitude rather than convincing with a lot of logical arguements.

There are certain beliefs which are common with others. Let us cement our relations with those beliefs. There are certain beliefs which need to be clarified. Let us do so with an open mind. **There are certain beliefs which are basically different from each other. Let us keep these beliefs to ourselves and respect each other and pray for each other. **

May God Bless all those who read these lines.

Warm regards,
Fredrick Correa, Nairobi.
Click to expand...
Hi

I appreciate your peaceful and human approach.

Thanks
 
Fredrick_Correa said:
Dear all,
Let us be generous in our remarks.
There are certain beliefs which are common with others. Let us cement our relations with those beliefs. There are certain beliefs which need to be clarified. Let us do so with an open mind. **There are certain beliefs which are basically different from each other. Let us keep these beliefs to ourselves and respect each other and pray for each other. **

May God Bless all those who read these lines.

Warm regards,
Fredrick Correa, Nairobi.

When wicked men blaspheme thee, I love and Bless thy name!
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🤷
In other words, if we personally do not ‘believe’ that same-sex marriages should be blessed because others believe they are holy, we should just shut up and not challenge?
 
But that’s what we say, the bread and wine become the body and blood of Jesus. We just don’t say that they stop being bread and wine and neither does Irenaeus.
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Steadfast, I think you’re almost there. If you believe in the “Real Presence” than you’re pretty close. So then all that is left is the definition of Transubstantiation, which can be found anywhere. Welcome home!!!🙂
 
SD_Catholic said:
Steadfast, I think you’re almost there. If you believe in the “Real Presence” than you’re pretty close. So then all that is left is the definition of Transubstantiation, which can be found anywhere. Welcome home!!!🙂
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The Lutherans have been “almost there” for 500 years. They’ve never not believed in the Real Presence, except for some American Lutherans who have watered it down to promote intra-Protestant ecumenism.

Edwin
 
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