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Mickey
Guest
Are you the same person as Harpazo???
- Status
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Steadfast
Guest
Then what point really is there is discussing anything with you?
Why do you even ask?
Your mind is made up and you’re not really interested in hearing why we left your church, you believe you already know.
Do you have any idea how pharisaical, how arrogant, how unutterably triumphalist and puerile you sound?
Undoubtedly not, I can’t believe anyone would knowingly behave so foolishly.
Why do you even ask?
Your mind is made up and you’re not really interested in hearing why we left your church, you believe you already know.
Do you have any idea how pharisaical, how arrogant, how unutterably triumphalist and puerile you sound?
Undoubtedly not, I can’t believe anyone would knowingly behave so foolishly.
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peary
Guest
**You have been asked (because YOU bring it up time and time again) about why you left the Church, but you never share that information, and it’s true - people for the most part leave the Church because of poor catechetics, they disagree with the Church on one its moral views, or are engaged in a behavior that the Church views is wrong. Any other minor reason is shallow. Of course, it’s none of our business, but since you have been bringing it up in a public forum, people are going to ask. Well, you can always put us on ignore…or not come into these forums anymore, if you feel that way about it. All you are doing right now is projecting your perceptions on us what you actually have within yourself. And at this point, I really don’t care the why or wherefore of your leaving the Church. That’s between you and God. **
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Originally Posted by Steadfast
If you can show me where the ECF’s taught and believed that the bread and wine were changed into the Body and Blood of Christ such that the bread and wine ceased to exist only the accidents remaining, I will enroll in RCIA today.
Wow, Steadfast, I did not know you made such a statement. I can see why you have commented on the Early church fathers and Saints.
I wont hold you to this statement. I will take it as show me proof of the Eucharist. Allow the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus to your heart and reveal his true presence to you. Praying for you to come home.
Peace of Jesus Christ be with you and His love forever keep you.
If you can show me where the ECF’s taught and believed that the bread and wine were changed into the Body and Blood of Christ such that the bread and wine ceased to exist only the accidents remaining, I will enroll in RCIA today.
Wow, Steadfast, I did not know you made such a statement. I can see why you have commented on the Early church fathers and Saints.
I wont hold you to this statement. I will take it as show me proof of the Eucharist. Allow the Holy Spirit to reveal Jesus to your heart and reveal his true presence to you. Praying for you to come home.
Peace of Jesus Christ be with you and His love forever keep you.
R
Ronald_E
Guest
The major reason people leave Catholicism could be the sin they observe by the practicing Catholic adults and this causes the child’s brain to respond with an aversion to the faith. In 1996 researchers identified specialized brain cells spread throughout the brain beginning while developing in the womb. These cells record behaviors, facial expressions, tone of voice and create automatic emotional and behavioral responses in the child before the child has an identity. The effect also establishes expectations about people, places and organizations based on what is recorded on the brain at the time of the experience. If our parents and teachers have a rigid and critical affect teaching us the faith our brains will record the faith as something that is not rewarding and something to be avoided. We will then search out some other people and place to find that rewarding human experience that was not fulfilled early in life.
Thus, if we do not observe Jesus in others after Communion it becomes empty for us. This is just the superficial yet main reason Catholics leave the faith and do not believe in The Real Presence.
Thus, if we do not observe Jesus in others after Communion it becomes empty for us. This is just the superficial yet main reason Catholics leave the faith and do not believe in The Real Presence.
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peary
Guest
**Ron - that’s self-centeredness or narcissism - “I am the beginning and end of the universe. Everything centers around me.” It’s not our job to ‘observe’ Jesus in others after Communion; it’s up to us to make sure others observe Jesus *in us *after Communion. We are unfortunately saturated with a consumer mentality that dis-allows for empathy when it comes to humanness.
I disagree about nature vs. nurture. What’s wired in the brain at birth continues to develop afterwards. A person’s brain potential isn’t matured until about the age of 25. Parents have plenty of time to influence their children and help them establish a proper approach to the Faith. however, I do understand that you can’t teach what you don’t have inside of yourself. Parents are stuck with their own limitations as individuals too.**
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O.S.Luke
Guest
Peary… I was a representative of the UMC’s religious order on the Holy Communion Study Committee that submitted the official teaching of the denomination that was approved. I think I might have just a little bit of insight on what my denomination teaches on the matter! I posted the official document and teaching earlier - so I think you’re just being argumentative here.
In short, Methodists, as well as others, believe the change is undefinable; we lack the terminology. Roman Catholic scholar Edward Schillebeeckx coined the word transsignification - but even it is inadequate.
As far as signify and sign, those words are present throughout the works of the ECF’s, Catholic liturgical theologians, and the Catechism itself in Chapter One, Article Three, “III. THE EUCHARIST IN THE ECONOMY OF SALVATION - The signs of bread and wine” (the Catechism’s words, not mine). You’ll have to take up that argument with your own apologists and Magisterium.
I think you just made my point. If you do NOT intend to lead a Christian life, if you do NOT repent of your sins and seek to live in peace with others, you CANNOT receive. An “open” table would mean, “Y’all come.” That is not the invitation issued; the invitation requires repentance of sins and living in peace within the Christian corporate life - basically, the living out of one’s baptism.
I’ve seen websites put up by Catholics and Protestants alike - however, that in no way means that they represent OFFICIAL teachings of their respective Churches unless they are quoting from official documents. For United Methodists, This Holy Mystery is the ONLY document that spells out the UMC’s official teaching on the matter.
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Harpazo
Guest
I’m beginning to understand how you view Communion. I would have replied to your PM, but I thought this would be adequate.
While some of it sounds Catholic, I disagree with the Pan-denominational Communion. On the surface it sounds great. What of people that don’t know of your belief regarding communion? What of people that are not baptized? What of those that believe the exact opposite of you, preaching acceptance of Homosexuality, abortion on demand, polygamy, etc? What about a person that rejects all of what you hold essential as a United Methodist?
Can you now see how there can be problems with an open communion?
Al-Masih Qam!
Alaha minokhoun
Andrew
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Steadfast
Guest
Which is it, Peary?
You don’t care or it must because I’m ignorant or immoral?
Isn’t Justice still a cardinal virtue?
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Finally your true colors are revealed:
Then you understand and accept my humility to your insult. Thank you
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peary
Guest
**Well, I’ve been associated with Methodism for over 35 years with my mother-in-law and we have attended several churches over that time, and never once did I ever hear an explanation on your communion service as being the true body and blood of Christ as the Catholic Church teaches, but only as a memorial, and that he is present in a spiritual way but not a bodily way, and that is my experience with Methodism with regard to communion. It seems quite strange that what I have been informed of all these years by Methodist ministers as well as my mother-in-law is simply wrong. If anyone will be surprised, she will when I tell her. **
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palmas85
Guest
Originally Posted by Steadfast View Post
If you can show me where the ECF’s taught and believed that the bread and wine were changed into the Body and Blood of Christ such that the bread and wine ceased to exist only the accidents remaining, I will enroll in RCIA today.
Disprove it my friend and i will convert myself.
It is pretty much a well known fact that one of the earliest charges leveled against the Christians was that of being cannibals because they both ate and drank of Christs Body and Blood. If **they **didn’t believe they were actually consuming the actual physical body and blood then why would the Romans believe it? In fact in numerous trials the early Christians refused to refute the charge that they actually ate the physical body and blood of Christ. In fact they enthusiastically affirmed it.
You want sources,OK Ignatious, Ambrose, Athanasius, Augustine Basil the Great Clement of Alexandria Clement of Rome Cyprian of Carthage Cyril of Jerusalem Gregory of Nyssa Ignatius of Antioch John Chrysostom Tertullian etc.etc the list goes on and on.
Read their works, they all believed it without doubt or question.
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peary
Guest
Originally Posted by Steadfast If you can show me where the ECF’s taught and believed that the bread and wine were changed into the Body and Blood of Christ such that the bread and wine ceased to exist only the accidents remaining, I will enroll in RCIA today.
**Ignatius of Antioch
“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).
“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
“We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration * and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).
Irenaeus*
“If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?” (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).
“He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?” (ibid., 5:2).
Clement of Alexandria
“’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children” (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).
Tertullian
“[T]here is not a soul that can at all procure salvation, except it believe whilst it is in the flesh, so true is it that the flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges. And since the soul is, in consequence of its salvation, chosen to the service of God, it is the flesh which actually renders it capable of such service. The flesh, indeed, is washed [in baptism], in order that the soul may be cleansed . . . the flesh is shadowed with the imposition of hands [in confirmation], that the soul also may be illuminated by the Spirit; the flesh feeds [in the Eucharist] on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may be filled with God” (The Resurrection of the Dead 8 [A.D. 210]).
Hippolytus
“‘And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table’ [Prov. 9:2] . . . refers to his [Christ’s] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper *” (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs [A.D. 217]).
Origen*
“Formerly there was baptism in an obscure way . . . now, however, in full view, there is regeneration in water and in the Holy Spirit. Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: ‘My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink’ [John 6:55]” (Homilies on Numbers 7:2 [A.D. 248]).**
**Ignatius of Antioch
“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).
“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).
Justin Martyr
“We call this food Eucharist, and no one else is permitted to partake of it, except one who believes our teaching to be true and who has been washed in the washing which is for the remission of sins and for regeneration * and is thereby living as Christ enjoined. For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus” (First Apology 66 [A.D. 151]).
Irenaeus*
“If the Lord were from other than the Father, how could he rightly take bread, which is of the same creation as our own, and confess it to be his body and affirm that the mixture in the cup is his blood?” (Against Heresies 4:33–32 [A.D. 189]).
“He has declared the cup, a part of creation, to be his own blood, from which he causes our blood to flow; and the bread, a part of creation, he has established as his own body, from which he gives increase unto our bodies. When, therefore, the mixed cup [wine and water] and the baked bread receives the Word of God and becomes the Eucharist, the body of Christ, and from these the substance of our flesh is increased and supported, how can they say that the flesh is not capable of receiving the gift of God, which is eternal life—flesh which is nourished by the body and blood of the Lord, and is in fact a member of him?” (ibid., 5:2).
Clement of Alexandria
“’Eat my flesh,’ [Jesus] says, ‘and drink my blood.’ The Lord supplies us with these intimate nutrients, he delivers over his flesh and pours out his blood, and nothing is lacking for the growth of his children” (The Instructor of Children 1:6:43:3 [A.D. 191]).
Tertullian
“[T]here is not a soul that can at all procure salvation, except it believe whilst it is in the flesh, so true is it that the flesh is the very condition on which salvation hinges. And since the soul is, in consequence of its salvation, chosen to the service of God, it is the flesh which actually renders it capable of such service. The flesh, indeed, is washed [in baptism], in order that the soul may be cleansed . . . the flesh is shadowed with the imposition of hands [in confirmation], that the soul also may be illuminated by the Spirit; the flesh feeds [in the Eucharist] on the body and blood of Christ, that the soul likewise may be filled with God” (The Resurrection of the Dead 8 [A.D. 210]).
Hippolytus
“‘And she [Wisdom] has furnished her table’ [Prov. 9:2] . . . refers to his [Christ’s] honored and undefiled body and blood, which day by day are administered and offered sacrificially at the spiritual divine table, as a memorial of that first and ever-memorable table of the spiritual divine supper *” (Fragment from Commentary on Proverbs [A.D. 217]).
Origen*
“Formerly there was baptism in an obscure way . . . now, however, in full view, there is regeneration in water and in the Holy Spirit. Formerly, in an obscure way, there was manna for food; now, however, in full view, there is the true food, the flesh of the Word of God, as he himself says: ‘My flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink’ [John 6:55]” (Homilies on Numbers 7:2 [A.D. 248]).**
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peary
Guest
**Cyprian of Carthage
“He [Paul] threatens, moreover, the stubborn and forward, and denounces them, saying, ‘Whosoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily, is guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. All these warnings being scorned and contemned—[lapsed Christians will often take Communion] before their sin is expiated, before confession has been made of their crime, before their conscience has been purged by sacrifice and by the hand of the priest, before the offense of an angry and threatening Lord has been appeased, [and so] violence is done to his body and blood; and they sin now against their Lord more with their hand and mouth than when they denied their Lord” (The Lapsed 15–16 [A.D. 251]).
Council of Nicaea I
“It has come to the knowledge of the holy and great synod that, in some districts and cities, the deacons administer the Eucharist to the presbyters *, whereas neither canon nor custom permits that they who have no right to offer [the Eucharistic sacrifice] should give the Body of Christ to them that do offer [it]” (Canon 18 [A.D. 325]).
Aphraahat the Persian Sage*
“After having spoken thus [at the Last Supper], the Lord rose up from the place where he had made the Passover and had given his body as food and his blood as drink, and he went with his disciples to the place where he was to be arrested. But he ate of his own body and drank of his own blood, while he was pondering on the dead. With his own hands the Lord presented his own body to be eaten, and before he was crucified he gave his blood as drink” (Treatises 12:6 [A.D. 340]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
“The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ” (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).
“Do not, therefore, regard the bread and wine as simply that; for they are, according to the Master’s declaration, the body and blood of Christ. Even though the senses suggest to you the other, let faith make you firm. Do not judge in this matter by taste, but be fully assured by the faith, not doubting that you have been deemed worthy of the body and blood of Christ. . . . [Since you are] fully convinced that the apparent bread is not bread, even though it is sensible to the taste, but the body of Christ, and that the apparent wine is not wine, even though the taste would have it so, . . . partake of that bread as something spiritual, and put a cheerful face on your soul” (ibid., 22:6, 9).
Ambrose of Milan
“Perhaps you may be saying, ‘I see something else; how can you assure me that I am receiving the body of Christ?’ It but remains for us to prove it. And how many are the examples we might use! . . . Christ is in that sacrament, because it is the body of Christ” (The Mysteries 9:50, 58 [A.D. 390]).
Theodore of Mopsuestia
“When [Christ] gave the bread he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my body,’ but, ‘This is my body.’ In the same way, when he gave the cup of his blood he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my blood,’ but, ‘This is my blood’; for he wanted us to look upon the [Eucharistic elements] after their reception of grace and the coming of the Holy Spirit not according to their nature, but receive them as they are, the body and blood of our Lord. We ought . . . not regard [the elements] merely as bread and cup, but as the body and blood of the Lord, into which they were transformed by the descent of the Holy Spirit” (Catechetical Homilies 5:1 [A.D. 405]).
Augustine
“Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, ‘This is my body’ [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands” (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).
“I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord’s Table. . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ” (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).
…
“What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ. This has been said very briefly, which may perhaps be sufficient for faith; yet faith does not desire instruction” (ibid., 272).
Council of Ephesus
“We will necessarily add this also. Proclaiming the death, according to the flesh, of the only-begotten Son of God, that is Jesus Christ, confessing his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension into heaven, we offer the unbloody sacrifice in the churches, and so go on to the mystical thanksgivings, and are sanctified, having received his holy flesh and the precious blood of Christ the Savior of us all. And not as common flesh do we receive it; God forbid: nor as of a man sanctified and associated with the Word according to the unity of worth, or as having a divine indwelling, but as truly the life-giving and very flesh of the Word himself. For he is the life according to his nature as God, and when he became united to his flesh, he made it also to be life-giving” (Session 1, Letter of Cyril to Nestorius )**
“He [Paul] threatens, moreover, the stubborn and forward, and denounces them, saying, ‘Whosoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily, is guilty of the body and blood of the Lord’ [1 Cor. 11:27]. All these warnings being scorned and contemned—[lapsed Christians will often take Communion] before their sin is expiated, before confession has been made of their crime, before their conscience has been purged by sacrifice and by the hand of the priest, before the offense of an angry and threatening Lord has been appeased, [and so] violence is done to his body and blood; and they sin now against their Lord more with their hand and mouth than when they denied their Lord” (The Lapsed 15–16 [A.D. 251]).
Council of Nicaea I
“It has come to the knowledge of the holy and great synod that, in some districts and cities, the deacons administer the Eucharist to the presbyters *, whereas neither canon nor custom permits that they who have no right to offer [the Eucharistic sacrifice] should give the Body of Christ to them that do offer [it]” (Canon 18 [A.D. 325]).
Aphraahat the Persian Sage*
“After having spoken thus [at the Last Supper], the Lord rose up from the place where he had made the Passover and had given his body as food and his blood as drink, and he went with his disciples to the place where he was to be arrested. But he ate of his own body and drank of his own blood, while he was pondering on the dead. With his own hands the Lord presented his own body to be eaten, and before he was crucified he gave his blood as drink” (Treatises 12:6 [A.D. 340]).
Cyril of Jerusalem
“The bread and the wine of the Eucharist before the holy invocation of the adorable Trinity were simple bread and wine, but the invocation having been made, the bread becomes the body of Christ and the wine the blood of Christ” (Catechetical Lectures 19:7 [A.D. 350]).
“Do not, therefore, regard the bread and wine as simply that; for they are, according to the Master’s declaration, the body and blood of Christ. Even though the senses suggest to you the other, let faith make you firm. Do not judge in this matter by taste, but be fully assured by the faith, not doubting that you have been deemed worthy of the body and blood of Christ. . . . [Since you are] fully convinced that the apparent bread is not bread, even though it is sensible to the taste, but the body of Christ, and that the apparent wine is not wine, even though the taste would have it so, . . . partake of that bread as something spiritual, and put a cheerful face on your soul” (ibid., 22:6, 9).
Ambrose of Milan
“Perhaps you may be saying, ‘I see something else; how can you assure me that I am receiving the body of Christ?’ It but remains for us to prove it. And how many are the examples we might use! . . . Christ is in that sacrament, because it is the body of Christ” (The Mysteries 9:50, 58 [A.D. 390]).
Theodore of Mopsuestia
“When [Christ] gave the bread he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my body,’ but, ‘This is my body.’ In the same way, when he gave the cup of his blood he did not say, ‘This is the symbol of my blood,’ but, ‘This is my blood’; for he wanted us to look upon the [Eucharistic elements] after their reception of grace and the coming of the Holy Spirit not according to their nature, but receive them as they are, the body and blood of our Lord. We ought . . . not regard [the elements] merely as bread and cup, but as the body and blood of the Lord, into which they were transformed by the descent of the Holy Spirit” (Catechetical Homilies 5:1 [A.D. 405]).
Augustine
“Christ was carried in his own hands when, referring to his own body, he said, ‘This is my body’ [Matt. 26:26]. For he carried that body in his hands” (Explanations of the Psalms 33:1:10 [A.D. 405]).
“I promised you [new Christians], who have now been baptized, a sermon in which I would explain the sacrament of the Lord’s Table. . . . That bread which you see on the altar, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the body of Christ. That chalice, or rather, what is in that chalice, having been sanctified by the word of God, is the blood of Christ” (Sermons 227 [A.D. 411]).
…
“What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that the bread is the body of Christ and the chalice is the blood of Christ. This has been said very briefly, which may perhaps be sufficient for faith; yet faith does not desire instruction” (ibid., 272).
Council of Ephesus
“We will necessarily add this also. Proclaiming the death, according to the flesh, of the only-begotten Son of God, that is Jesus Christ, confessing his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension into heaven, we offer the unbloody sacrifice in the churches, and so go on to the mystical thanksgivings, and are sanctified, having received his holy flesh and the precious blood of Christ the Savior of us all. And not as common flesh do we receive it; God forbid: nor as of a man sanctified and associated with the Word according to the unity of worth, or as having a divine indwelling, but as truly the life-giving and very flesh of the Word himself. For he is the life according to his nature as God, and when he became united to his flesh, he made it also to be life-giving” (Session 1, Letter of Cyril to Nestorius )**
B
Believe_85
Guest
This is amazing!!! Where did you find all of this!!!
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peary
Guest
**The Faith of the Early Fathers by William Jurgens, Vols. 1,2,3; Liturgical Press
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O.S.Luke
Guest
We view the church catholic differently. And we don’t view the Eucharist as a “United Methodist” sacrament; we view it as a sacrament, period. It is the Lord’s Table, not ours. The invitation is given, as I have reprinted earlier: Christ our Lord invites to his table:
- all who love him,
- who earnestly repent of their sin, and
- seek to live in peace with one another.
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O.S.Luke
Guest
All I can tell you is that I have posted the OFFICIAL UMC belief’s on the Eucharist.
And it’s not “our” communion service. It is Christ’s.
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peary
Guest
**But Methodism supports abortion, no? I do know that the United Methodist position in favor of abortion has been so strong that two of its institutions helped organize and affiliate with the Religious Coalition for Abortion Rights. For many years RCAR used office space in the United Methodist Building which is located across the street from the U.S. Supreme Court. In both 1996 and 1997 the United Methodist Church publicly supported Bill Clinton’s veto of the Partial Birth Abortion Ban Act (H.R. 1833). While the 1996 United Methodist Church’s Book of Discipline still maintains a strong pro-abortion position, it now includes wording recognizing the “sanctity of unborn human life.” It further states, “We cannot affirm abortion as an acceptable means of birth control and we unconditionally reject it as a means of gender selection.” It’s like they are attempting to cover both ends of the same pipe, if you ask me. **
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peary
Guest
Actually, it’s ‘yours’, it certainly isn’t ‘mine’, and it definitely isn’t what Christ intended, nor is it in keeping with the one doctrine of the Church for the past two-thousand years.
- Status