proving that God is one person

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ahmadhassan said:
are one in purpose not in personality see
they(jews) misunderstood him and the same did you (christians)
see
john 10: 31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”
they misunderstood him and they thought that he claims divinity
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Did they mistunderstand? Jesus had just said: I and the Father are one."
but he tried to explain to them that he isnt God and that they misunderstood him
34Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are gods’[e]?
that he is just not talking in reality its just a symbol
if it was said that you are gods why dont you let me say that
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I would agree that in quoting “you are gods” Jesus has placed a roadblock in the path of those who were trying to entrap him. He is also drawing attention to the passage in the psalms condemning injustice and showing the actions of true “sons of the most High”:

2] “How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? [Selah]
3] Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4] Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
. . .

6] I say, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
7] nevertheless, you shall die like men,
and fall like any prince.”

Jesus reminds his accusers that the merely mortal sons of the most high are expected to go beyond what these teachers have done. Jesus has been performing “many great miracles from the father” – deeds far beyond the righteous works of the “gods” in Psalm 82. Therefore, this passage in John 10, while not an absolute declaration of Jesus’ divinity, definitely points toward it and will be seen as a signpost of that truth after the Resurrection.
 
QuicumqueVult said:
I must respectfully disagree strongly with the idea that God is three aspects. That’s called Modalism, a heresy attributed to a Roman named Sabellius. He taught that God is three modes, like masks on a single actor. To say that the Father alone is Creator, the Son alone is Redeemer, the Spirit alone is Sanctifier, is to subscribe to modalism. In actual fact, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier (eg, of Christ in the Creed, 'through him all things were made).

God’s Trinue nature is not functional. It is personal. In the Greek, the word for person is hypostasis. The hypostatic union is thus the union of the divine and human natures (ways of being) in one Person (the co-eternal and consubstantial Second Person of the Trinity).
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:amen: 👍
 
mercygate said:
Did they mistunderstand? Jesus had just said: I and the Father are one."
I would agree that in quoting “you are gods” Jesus has placed a roadblock in the path of those who were trying to entrap him. He is also drawing attention to the passage in the psalms condemning injustice and showing the actions of true “sons of the most High”:

2] “How long will you judge unjustly
and show partiality to the wicked? [Selah]
3] Give justice to the weak and the fatherless;
maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
4] Rescue the weak and the needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.”
. . .

6] I say, “You are gods,
sons of the Most High, all of you;
7] nevertheless, you shall die like men,
and fall like any prince.”

Jesus reminds his accusers that the merely mortal sons of the most high are expected to go beyond what these teachers have done. Jesus has been performing “many great miracles from the father” – deeds far beyond the righteous works of the “gods” in Psalm 82. Therefore, this passage in John 10, while not an absolute declaration of Jesus’ divinity, definitely points toward it and will be seen as a signpost of that truth after the Resurrection.
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actually what you quotes mean that there is no difference between me and you ,and what i was meaning is not true son ,if the bible say you are gods ,it doesnt mean you are really gods ,when i say before abram ,i am ,that doesnt really mean that i was exist:)
 
ahmadhassan said:
actually what you quotes mean that there is no difference between me and you ,and what i was meaning is not true son ,if the bible say you are gods ,it doesnt mean you are really gods ,when i say before abram ,i am ,that doesnt really mean that i was exist:)
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I did not say that the statement “I and the Father are one” was undeniable proof of Jesus’ divinity or that he was stating in no uncertain terms that “I am God.” I said that this statement, taken together with much else that he said, and ratified by the the Resurrection, is a signpost on the way of helping us humans work out the theology of how Jesus is God and how the One God can exist as three persons.

It took 300 years for the Church to understand this mystery, and it will ever be ultimately unknowable because our finite minds cannot fully understand God until we are united with him.

What do you think “Before Abraham was, I am” means? We Christians pay attention when we see the words “I am” because without giving himself a name, that is how God identified himself on Jebel Musa.
 
mercygate said:
I did not say that the statement “I and the Father are one” was undeniable proof of Jesus’ divinity or that he was stating in no uncertain terms that “I am God.” I said that this statement, taken together with much else that he said, and ratified by the the Resurrection, is a signpost on the way of helping us humans work out the theology of how Jesus is God and how the One God can exist as three persons.

It took 300 years for the Church to understand this mystery, and it will ever be ultimately unknowable because our finite minds cannot fully understand God until we are united with him.

What do you think “Before Abraham was, I am” means? We Christians pay attention when we see the words “I am” because without giving himself a name, that is how God identified himself on Jebel Musa.
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so you confess that you dont understand trinity ,i.e dont know who you do worship , i answered about saying i am , can you say its wrong and why?
christ never said i`m God or worship me ,christ prayed to God ,christ is a man and son of man (dont you believe that?)
actually i see here that christians take their religion from church even if it contradict bible
dont you see with me that its idiocy that the core belief of christians “truine God” isnt present even once in bible instead ,God is one and christ said that he ascend to his God
 
ahmadhassan said:
so you confess that you dont understand trinity ,i.e dont know who you do worship , i answered about saying i am , can you say its wrong and why?
christ never said i`m God or worship me ,christ prayed to God ,christ is a man and son of man (dont you believe that?)
actually i see here that christians take their religion from church even if it contradict bible
dont you see with me that its idiocy that the core belief of christians “truine God” isnt present even once in bible instead ,God is one and christ said that he ascend to his God
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Do you understand Allah? Can Allah be understood fully by the human intellect?

Trinitarian theology does not contradict the Bible; it is a theology that accounts for ALL the aspects of Scripture that point towards the divinity of Christ. Moreover, the Bible is not the sole dictator of the content of Christian faith because the Bible is, itself, a tradition of the faith.

In Christian trinitarian theology, only God can redeem man from his sins, since all sin is against God. Yet only a man could make just reparation for the sin of man. Christ, therefore must be true God and true man.

I do not expect you to say: Ah ha! NOW I get it! Where can I be baptized? What I *do *expect of a respectful interlocutor is that you question sincerely, and not tell me that the core belief of my faith, which was articulated 250 years before the prophet Muhammad was born, is “idiocy.”

What Christian sources have you read to try to understand this doctrine? Maybe we should work from a common ground
 
mercygate said:
Do you understand Allah? Can Allah be understood fully by the human intellect?

Trinitarian theology does not contradict the Bible; it is a theology that accounts for ALL the aspects of Scripture that point towards the divinity of Christ. Moreover, the Bible is not the sole dictator of the content of Christian faith because the Bible is, itself, a tradition of the faith.

In Christian trinitarian theology, only God can redeem man from his sins, since all sin is against God. Yet only a man could make just reparation for the sin of man. Christ, therefore must be true God and true man.

I do not expect you to say: Ah ha! NOW I get it! Where can I be baptized? What I *do *expect of a respectful interlocutor is that you question sincerely, and not tell me that the core belief of my faith, which was articulated 250 years before the prophet Muhammad was born, is “idiocy.”

What Christian sources have you read to try to understand this doctrine? Maybe we should work from a common ground
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what about using bible to proof what you say?can you quote from it proofs supporting what you say?
again plz read thread from begining ,when i share in a thread i start to read it from begining to know what is going on ,what is proofs told and so on ,about understanding you can check it i answered before
 
ahmadhassan said:
what about using bible to proof what you say?can you quote from it proofs supporting what you say?
again plz read thread from begining ,when i share in a thread i start to read it from begining to know what is going on ,what is proofs told and so on ,about understanding you can check it i answered before
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Yes. I have read the thread from the beginning.

Do you understand Allah? Or, more precisely, in Islamic theology, is it held that Allah CAN be fully understood by the human mind?

What Christian sources have you read on the doctrine of the Holy Trinity?
 
QuicumqueVult said:
I must respectfully disagree strongly with the idea that God is three aspects. That’s called Modalism, a heresy attributed to a Roman named Sabellius. He taught that God is three modes, like masks on a single actor. To say that the Father alone is Creator, the Son alone is Redeemer, the Spirit alone is Sanctifier, is to subscribe to modalism. In actual fact, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are each Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier (eg, of Christ in the Creed, 'through him all things were made).

God’s Trinue nature is not functional. It is personal. In the Greek, the word for person is hypostasis. The hypostatic union is thus the union of the divine and human natures (ways of being) in one Person (the co-eternal and consubstantial Second Person of the Trinity).
Click to expand...
I agree with what you say here. I was trying to find a way to exaplain that there are not three gods, but one. I words failed me.
 
ahmadhassan said:
so you confess that you dont understand trinity ,i.e dont know who you do worship , i answered about saying i am , can you say its wrong and why?
christ never said i`m God or worship me ,christ prayed to God ,christ is a man and son of man (dont you believe that?)
actually i see here that christians take their religion from church even if it contradict bible
dont you see with me that its idiocy that the core belief of christians “truine God” isnt present even once in bible instead ,God is one and christ said that he ascend to his God
Click to expand...
Do you understand everything there is to now about God? I rather doubt it.
 
i`m sure that none of those who asked me if i understand allah ,did really understand what i said in this thread ,i have never tried to ask how is allah look like in contrast ,i dont like those who describe allah as a man or son of man ,they did description but i didnt 🙂
 
We believe not in three Gods (tritheism) but in three persons existing in one Godhead. We believe in the unity of the divine being and essence as much as Jews and Muslims, but our scriptures teach us God was encountered in salvation history as three different persons; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Since our scriptures also say God is one both in the Old and New Testaments, each of these persons is different in terms of their relation to each other, but at the same time each is fully God. To explain this, this is why we speak of the Holy Trinity; One God, one divine Being, but existing as three persons. Each person is not a separate God, rather they are the same God but the God in whom dwells the three persons, who exist in terms defined by their relations to one another.
 
Greg27 said:
We believe not in three Gods (tritheism) but in three persons existing in one Godhead. We believe in the unity of the divine being and essence as much as Jews and Muslims, but our scriptures teach us God was encountered in salvation history as three different persons; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Since our scriptures also say God is one both in the Old and New Testaments, each of these persons is different in terms of their relation to each other, but at the same time each is fully God. To explain this, this is why we speak of the Holy Trinity; One God, one divine Being, but existing as three persons. Each person is not a separate God, rather they are the same God but the God in whom dwells the three persons, who exist in terms defined by their relations to one another.
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Hi
My Christian friends say that Trinity is a mystery.
Please give a quotation from NTBible that it is a Mystery.
Thanks

GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth. Kindly let God speak for Claim and Reason.
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
My Christian friends say that Trinity is a mystery.
Please give a quotation from NTBible that it is a Mystery.
Thanks

GodAllahYHWH is All-Knowing and All-Wise; one should invariably give Claim and Reason on all important issues from one’s Revealed Book; one shouldn’t try putting one’s own words into God’s mouth. Kindly let God speak for Claim and Reason.
Click to expand...
Nowhere in Scripture, either the Old or the New Testament, does it say the the entire Word of God is limited to the “book”. The concept of the Holy Trinity arises entirely from the Incarnation. The Resurrection is the center of the great Mystery of the Holy Trinity. Much in the New Testament testifies to Jesus’ divinity. A couple of verses have been cited on this thread, but they are only part of the witness. For Christians, the Resurrection is just as undeniable as the sovereignty and unity of God.

The idea that God would just invade a woman and produce a demi-god like a pagan half divinity (think: Hercules) is absolutely not acceptable! Yet, Jesus says that he has the power to lay down his life and to take it up again. That is a divine power. The witnesses to the reality of that are trustworthy (which Scripture says, but that would not, of itself, make it so).

In order to get a better feel for how this divine truth about the Godhead came to be understood, it helps to learn about the various versions of Jesus’ Person that emerged from the first through the third centuries.

Just as in the Old Testament, God reveals himself in stages to the people of Israel, so to us, the knowledge of God grows clearer the more we come to understand him. Israel was introduced to greater depths of the Divine Person through their troubles. Just so, “troubles” force the Church into a deeper knowledge of God. The early heresies forced a careful and rational delineation of the Incarnation. This is never without a scriptural foundation. Never. The fundamaental principle of Trinitarian theology lies in the non-negotiable belief that God is One. One God; not three Gods.
 
plz everyone answer quote from bible ,i dont want what fathers say but what is in bible 🙂
 
paarsurrey said:
Hi
My Christian friends say that Trinity is a mystery.
Please give a quotation from NTBible that it is a Mystery.
Thanks

Timothy 3
Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth. 16Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in a body,
was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels,
was preached among the nations,
was believed on in the world,
was taken up in glory.
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bec i cant take my religion from a normal man but a prophet ,another thing you dont believe in islam so i cant ask you to qoute from 🙂
 
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