Psalm 109: Whose "Death Wish" is it?

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ChristinaM

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Background: I was in a discussion in a conservative group on another forum, and someone brought up a bumper sticker they had seen “Pray for Obama: Psalm 109:8.” We had a good laugh considering the verse:
Psalm 109:8:
May his days be few; may another take his office.
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Sounded like someone using a scriptural reference to take a shot at Obama, hoping he would be a one-term president. Then another poster came into the forum, saying that the Scripture was a “death wish” on him because of the next verse:
Psalm 109:9:
May his children be fatherless, his wife, a widow.
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So that turned into a debate on the meaning and context of Psalm 109. I was referencing the New American Bible, which has the following:
New American Bible:
Code: 
My enemies say of me:
6 "Find a lying witness, an accuser to stand by his right hand,
7 That he may be judged and found guilty, that his plea may be in vain.
8 May his days be few; may another take his office.
9 May his children be fatherless, his wife, a widow.
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It goes on from there, until verse 20, as a quotation of the evil things the psalmist’s enemies are saying about him. The New Revised Standard Version is very similar:
New Revised Standard Version:
They say, ‘Appoint a wicked man against him;
let an accuser stand on his right.
7When he is tried, let him be found guilty;
let his prayer be counted as sin.
May his days be few;
may another seize his position.
9May his children be orphans,
and his wife a widow.
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The King James version, however, has this:
King James Version:
Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
8 Let his days be few; and let another take his office.
9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
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Instead of being a quote of what the psalmist’s enemies say, it reads as the psalmist’s imprecation on his enemies. The Revised Standard Version is similar in wording:

Revised Standard Version said:
[6]
Appoint a wicked man against him;
let an accuser bring him to trial.
[7] When he is tried, let him come forth guilty;
let his prayer be counted as sin!
[8] May his days be few;
may another seize his goods!
[9] May his children be fatherless,
and his wife a widow!
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My question is…what is the reliable translation here? I know we as Catholics do not use the KJV for obvious reasons, but why such a difference between the NRSV and the RSV? Can someone more experienced with Scripture help me to understand this?

Note: PLEASE do not turn this into a political discussion! I am interested only in possible reasons why these four translations are so different. I think it should go without saying that I do not wish death on anybody…
 
Is there something in particular in the NRSV and RSV that strikes you in particular? Reading through the 2 passages side by side the only material difference I could see was the addition of “They say” to the NRSV verse which clarifies the context somewhat, but by just reading them they mean the same thing.
 
Psalm 108 from the Douay Rheims (Douay uses Greek numbering, this would be 109 in the Hebrew)

drbo.org/chapter/21108.htm
6 Set thou the sinner over him: and may the devil stand at his right hand. 7 When he is judged, may he go out condemned; and may his prayer be turned to sin. 8 May his days be few: and his bishopric let another take. 9 May his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow. 10 Let his children be carried about vagabonds, and beg; and let them be cast out of their dwellings.
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Notes from Bishop Challoner
6 “Set thou the sinner over him”… Give to the devil, that arch-sinner, power over him: let him enter into him, and possess him. The imprecations, contained in the thirty verses of this psalm, are opposed to the thirty pieces of silver for which Judas betrayed our Lord; and are to be taken as prophetic denunciations of the evils that should befall the traitor and his accomplices the Jews; and not properly as curses.
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I followed the link from the Jewish translation of the Psalm. Verses 6-19, one of which is the one that appears on the bumper sticker, is in the form of a quote. The Psalmist is saying “this is what my enemies say of me, this is how they would curse me.” It’s really a lament that his enemies and degraders are misunderstanding or misconstruing his words and deeds. The remaining verses are then a plea from the Psalmist for God to show mercy to him and also to praise the Lord because he will: “save him from them that judge his soul.”

I’m not sure whether wicked man or Satan is the correct translation, but it should be important to remember that it occurs in the context of what the Psalmist says his detractors say about him.

ChadS
 
ChadS said:
I’m not sure whether wicked man or Satan is the correct translation, but it should be important to remember that it occurs in the context of what the Psalmist says his detractors say about him.
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The hebrew text uses a form of the word satan, but I do not know how it should be interpreted.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
What does that translate to?
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those are four letters, the closest english would be these letters:

VSTN

Satan

HSTN

Ha Shatan

Which would mean ‘The Adversary’ or Our Adversary…

I just looked up “the Satan” and it resolves to HSTN. “Our Adversary” is the HSTN followed by a second word.
 
geometer said:
those are four letters, the closest english would be these letters:

VSTN

Satan

HSTN

Ha Shatan

Which would mean ‘The Adversary’ or Our Adversary…

I just looked up “the Satan” and it resolves to HSTN. “Our Adversary” is the HSTN followed by a second word.
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Very interesting! I understand your dilemma - confusing.:confused:
 
I tried to translate the english back into hebrew, and it looks completely different.

I know from experience that the translator makes a lot of errors.

6 “Set Thou a wicked man over him; and let an adversary stand at his right hand.”

Google: 109:6 "הגדר הנך איש רע עליו; ולתת עמדה על היריב את ידו הימנית
"
 
ושטן

This same word from the text, google translates as the english word: Devil
 
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