Psalm 22, "They have pierced my hands and my feet."

[Publisher]

As I understand Psalm 22 is not as much “prophesy” as it was a prayer Jews used in times of trouble…Jesus began praying this very Jewish-in-times-of-great-trouble prayer when he was crucified.

Christian writers used the LXX as their basis for much if not all the OT text quoted in the NT…to me…it’s no surprise Jesus a Jewish man would pray a very Jewish prayer as his execution was conducted.

 

[itullian]

As I understand Psalm 22 is not as much “prophesy” as it was a prayer Jews used in times of trouble…Jesus began praying this very Jewish-in-times-of-great-trouble prayer when he was crucified.

Christian writers used the LXX as their basis for much if not all the OT text quoted in the NT…to me…it’s no surprise Jesus a Jewish man would pray a very Jewish prayer as his execution was conducted.

yes, but he could have been making a statement too.

 

[Publisher]

yes, but he could have been making a statement too.

“Could have”…but we know Psalm 22 WAS a prayer recited by Jews in time of trouble and suffering…and since Jesus was a Jew…I see no reason to ascribe “more” to Ps 22 than used by his contemporaries.

 

[itullian]

“Could have”…but we know Psalm 22 WAS a prayer recited by Jews in time of trouble and suffering…and since Jesus was a Jew…I see no reason to ascribe “more” to Ps 22 than used by his contemporaries.

he could have picked another. i don’t think it was coincidence. He knew what he was doing.

 

[Publisher]

he could have picked another. i don’t think it was coincidence. He knew what he was doing.

Yes he did…he was following a long line of Jews who recited Psalm 22 in the midst of suffering and pain. He was a contemporary and product of his time.

 

[bengland]

Well. We could look at the casting of lots for the garments Ps 22:18 - Mat 27:35; Mk 15:24; Lk 23:34; Jn 19:23-24
The dry mouth Ps 22:15 - Jn 19:28 I thirst
The general anguish which is part of most of the psalm.
Poured out like water Ps 22:14 - Jn 19:34 blood and water flowed out.
He trusted in God - Let the Lord deliver him Ps 22:8 - Mat 27:43
The tearing of the hands 22:16
Jesus crying out “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me” Ps 22:1 - Mat 27:46; Mk 15:34;
and the promise of deliverance to the coming generation Ps 22:31

It’s not just a single verse, but it seems that we’re being told that this is a fulfillment of a prophecy from Ps 22.

Lk 24:44 He said to them, These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you,
that everything written about me in the law of Moses and in the prophets and psalms must be fulfilled.

I agree that it doesn’t seem like a mere coincidence, although I certainly do believe that Jesus was expressing his anguish through the Psalm as well as making a reference to the fulfillment of prophecy in Psalm 22. There doesn’t have to be only one meaning. It can be seen more than one way.

 

[itullian]

just like riding in on the donkey, he was fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Publisher]

Well. We could look at the casting of lots for the garments Ps 22:18 - Mat 27:35; Mk 15:24; Lk 23:34; Jn 19:23-24
The dry mouth Ps 22:15 - Jn 19:28 I thirst
The general anguish which is part of most of the psalm.
Poured out like water Ps 22:14 - Jn 19:34 blood and water flowed out.
He trusted in God - Let the Lord deliver him Ps 22:8 - Mat 27:43
The tearing of the hands 22:16
Jesus crying out “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me” Ps 22:1 - Mat 27:46; Mk 15:34;
and the promise of deliverance to the coming generation Ps 22:31

It’s not just a single verse, but it seems that we’re being told that this is a fulfillment of a prophecy from Ps 22.

I agree that it doesn’t seem like a mere coincidence, although I certainly do believe that Jesus was expressing his anguish through the Psalm as well as making a reference to the fulfillment of prophecy in Psalm 22. There doesn’t have to be only one meaning. It can be seen more than one way.

Since I believe the gospel writers used OT passages to frame and “flesh out” the gospel story…Mark and Matthew were written as “supplements” for the Jewish liturgical year…and pattered the stories of the gospels in sections so that they could be read in conjunction with the Law and Prophets as the liturgical year unfolded in synagouge…it is no surprise they would scour the OT and use events found in it’s passages and “retell” the story of Jesus in that frame work…so using he LXX the writers of the gospels found various passages in the OT and ascribed them anew in the “Jesus story”…God was again at work in Israel’s life…by using the OT stories recast with Jesus of Nazareth as it’s main character…the gospels took their form.

I realize much of what I believe concerning the development of Christianity and the scriptures don’t “affirm” a lot of people’s established belief systems…but it makes sense to me…it was only after I began studying modern scholars and critics that I began to find a faith that meant something…I see the hand of God again in history…moving thru history in a way very “natural”.

 

[patrick457]

Since I believe the gospel writers used OT passages to frame and “flesh out” the gospel story…Mark and Matthew were written as “supplements” for the Jewish liturgical year…and pattered the stories of the gospels in sections so that they could be read in conjunction with the Law and Prophets as the liturgical year unfolded in synagouge…it is no surprise they would scour the OT and use events found in it’s passages and “retell” the story of Jesus in that frame work…so using he LXX the writers of the gospels found various passages in the OT and ascribed them anew in the “Jesus story”…God was again at work in Israel’s life…by using the OT stories recast with Jesus of Nazareth as it’s main character…the gospels took their form.

I realize much of what I believe concerning the development of Christianity and the scriptures don’t “affirm” a lot of people’s established belief systems…but it makes sense to me…it was only after I began studying modern scholars and critics that I began to find a faith that meant something…I see the hand of God again in history…moving thru history in a way very “natural”.

Question. Which do you hold: ‘prophecy historicized’ or ‘history Scripturalized’?