Psychic abilities...could they be real?

[TimothyH]

Anyone who claims to know the future or to have had the furture revealed to them has not recieved a gift. A believer in Jesus Christ should dismiss such thoughts. I’m sure God can and and has fortold the future to some people, but for 99.99999999999999% of us it is our own imaginations. The age of the prophets is over. Dismiss the thoughts as daydreams, recollect yourself and go about your daily business.

Desiring such “Gifts” as to know the future shows a complete lack of trust in God’s providence. Not trusting the God who created you and holds you in existence is a sin. God wants you to trust him, abandoning yourself into his care. Even if such things are documented by research, it is likely that they come from evil spirits and not God.

Wow! You have a gift!

No, you don’t have a gift. You have a lit fuse. Expect it to blow up in your face. Don’t mess around with this. Nothing good can come from it.

-Tim-

 

[dailey]

Anyone who claims to know the future or to have had the furture revealed to them has not recieved a gift. A believer in Jesus Christ should dismiss such thoughts. I’m sure God can and and has fortold the future to some people, but for 99.99999999999999% of us it is our own imaginations. The age of the prophets is over. Dismiss the thoughts as daydreams, recollect yourself and go about your daily business.

Desiring such “Gifts” as to know the future shows a complete lack of trust in God’s providence. Not trusting the God who created you and holds you in existence is a sin. God wants you to trust him, abandoning yourself into his care. Even if such things are documented by research, it is likely that they come from evil spirits and not God.

No, you don’t have a gift. You have a lit fuse. Expect it to blow up in your face. Don’t mess around with this. Nothing good can come from it.

-Tim-

True, true, true.

Even though God specifically says DO NOT dabble in this type of stuff, people are so easily side-tracted.

Remember, the devil loves those who are curious.

 

[Z_Ninja]

I would say there are several possibilities.

1. they are fake. They prey on those that are vulnerable to make a profit, tell some people general statements that can apply or (i think a lot of the shows or call in psychic and such do prescreens on callers or participants, and they are trained to catch certain aspects, basically they are really good at reading people.
2. powers like this are real.
   a. they are given by God
   i. they may be truly righteous people.
   b. they are of the devil/Satan
   i. they are being deceived into thinking they are doing good, but in actuality selling their souls out.

I am a bit weary of “psychics” who feel it necessary to sell their skills. They say they are helping people, but they are really out to make money.
Another thing, people who claim to have been visited or see spirits or were given some gift by an angel or whatever, I was told once that one thing to think about is after Lucifer and the angels that followed him were cast out, where did they fall? They would have fallen to earth and where ever they fell, could have taken up residence. (ie. in the tree or cave or where ever people claim to have seen something or spoke with some entity). Then these people are deceived into helping an evil being.

kind of interesting.

 

[cornbread_r2]

…]

So what exactly is it that makes you think this study is somehow not worthy of consideration?

For one thing, the journal in which that article was published.

For another, this quote from the article’s conclusion:

“I [the author] believe that it would be wasteful of valuable resources to continue to look for proof.”

It’s difficult to imagine a more unscientific statement about an area of research that has, at best, provided inconclusive and non-replicated findings.

 

[cornbread_r2]

…]
.
Another thing, people who claim to have been visited or see spirits or were given some gift by an angel or whatever, I was told once that one thing to think about is after Lucifer and the angels that followed him were cast out, where did they fall? They would have fallen to earth and where ever they fell, could have taken up residence. (ie. in the tree or cave or where ever people claim to have seen something or spoke with some entity). Then these people are deceived into helping an evil being.

kind of interesting.

As I understand it, they were cast into hell (though for some reason they weren’t confined there). That aside, why would spirits be affected by gravity? For that matter, why would they be stopped from falling by material things like trees or caves?

 

[Z_Ninja]

As I understand it, they were cast into hell (though for some reason they weren’t confined there). That aside, why would spirits be affected by gravity? For that matter, why would they be stopped from falling by material things like trees or caves?

honestly, I don’t know. it was just an interesting thought. if literally falling from heaven meant falling to the earth and taking up residence wherever they fell, it makes sense. perhaps their wings were clipped and they couldn’t fly anymore. if they were cast out and were subject to natural laws, then gravity would affect their physical bodies. again, it was just an interesting thought to me.

but I would say you are correct that they would be cast into hell. but if they were to escape and dwell on Earth, then they would arrive at the same dwelling, albeit by a more scenic route through hell.

sorry for taking this a bit off topic.

 

[Julia_Mae]

It’s difficult to imagine a more unscientific statement about an area of research that has, at best, provided inconclusive and non-replicated findings.

You should have actually read it. First, it was published in two journals, but in fact, the studies were replicated and were quite conclusive. These studies have been done all over the world and produce highly predictable results.

What Utts was saying was that we no longer need to waste time “proving psychism” exists, we need to turn our resources into figuring out how it works. The statistical evidence is conclusive in this area.

 

[StrawberryJam]

You should have actually read it. First, it was published in two journals, but in fact, the studies were replicated and were quite conclusive. These studies have been done all over the world and produce highly predictable results.

What Utts was saying was that we no longer need to waste time “proving psychism” exists, we need to turn our resources into figuring out how it works. The statistical evidence is conclusive in this area.

Which journals?

Do you realize that getting pubished is not exactly enough to be considered seriously? Maybe you don’t. Name the journals.

Conclusive may mean something different to you than it does to me or others.

I do agree that the entire topic is highly predictable in terms of “results”. We just differ on how.

There is no statistical evidence for anything supernatural. Catholics here/ and in real life tell me this everyday. I agree with them.

 

[flameburns623]

As I understand it, they were cast into hell (though for some reason they weren’t confined there). That aside, why would spirits be affected by gravity? For that matter, why would they be stopped from falling by material things like trees or caves?

More accurately–they were cast OUT OF Heaven. They will not be cast into Hell until the end of the age. Hyperliteral reading of anthropocentic language is not a Catholic way of reading Scripture.

 

[StrawberryJam]

More accurately–they were cast OUT OF Heaven. They will not be cast into Hell until the end of the age. Hyperliteral reading of anthropocentic language is not a Catholic way of reading Scripture.

I thought hell was an eternal seperation from God. I guess Satan still has his visits up there with God then, just like he did at the time of Job.

 

[Porknpie]

Wow, so many replies. Thank you all. I really enjoyed reading them all. Many different view points all very valid.

I understand what some have said about keeping away from this sort of thing. I have already been there done that, and now that I am away from it all, I find it quite funny to watch. I use to believe everything these people said, now I look back I cannot believe I did.

On the other hand, some posted replies also saying that it is possible for some to have a gift, and I agree with this too. I think it would be a very small number compared to the huge number of ‘psychic’s’ out there. Also, the comment that “Kieron123” said that generally they would be more likely to live away from society and in their own respective religions made a lot of sense to me. If they were truly talented, they maybe would not feel the need to ‘show’ everyone. Too much ego and they want to charge the earth for this sort of thing too.
How is that helping people?

I guess this is just one of those debates that everyone has such a different opinion on…I think I would say I am swaying towards----95% of Psychic (and Mediums etc) are lying to themselves and others (simply for fame, money and ego) the rest might be truly blessed and gifted from God.

Thank you all again.

Find me a psychic who will accurately predict when the Chicago Cubs will win a World Series. So far they have all been wrong for 100 years. The curse of the billy goat is right so far.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Find me a psychic who will accurately predict when the Chicago Cubs will win a World Series. So far they have all been wrong for 100 years. The curse of the billy goat is right so far.

Let’s discuss this serious matter over at the Billy Goat Tavern!

 

[cornbread_r2]

You should have actually read it. First, it was published in two journals, but in fact, the studies were replicated and were quite conclusive. These studies have been done all over the world and produce highly predictable results.

What Utts was saying was that we no longer need to waste time “proving psychism” exists, we need to turn our resources into figuring out how it works. The statistical evidence is conclusive in this area.

Which was the second journal? If you’re referring to the article entitled Replication and Meta-Analysis in Parapsychology (1991), published in the Statistical Science journal, that would not appear to be the same article.

It would seem that most other scientists do not share Ms Utts’s confidence in the statistical evidence “proving psychism”. Dr. Ray Hyman, her partner in the CIA sponsored Stargate Project, took exception to Utts’s conclusion.

*Hyman’s report stated that Utts’ conclusion that ESP had been proven to exist, “especially precognition, is premature and that present findings have yet to be independently replicated”. *

When funding for the Stargate Project was ended in 1995, an independent review concluded:

*The foregoing observations provide a compelling argument against continuation of the program within the intelligence community. Even though a statistically significant effect has been observed in the laboratory, it remains unclear whether the existence of a paranormal phenomenon, remote viewing, has been demonstrated. The laboratory studies do not provide evidence regarding the origins or nature of the phenomenon, assuming it exists, nor do they address an important methodological issue of inter-judge reliability.
*

Finally, this recent article by Stanley Jeffers ties together much of the criticism of the non-defunct Pear Proposition nicely.

This paper argues that in the light of the difficulties in replication (even by the PEAR group itself), the lack of anything approaching a theoretical basis for the claims made, and, perhaps most damaging, the published behavior of the baseline data of the PEAR group which by their own criteria indicate nonrandom behavior of the device that they claim is random, then the answer to the question raised has to be no. There are reasonable and rational grounds for questioning these claims. Despite the best efforts of the PEAR group over a twenty-five-year period, their impact on mainstream science has been negligible. The PEAR group might argue that this is due to the biased and blinkered mentality of mainstream scientists. I would argue that it is due to the lack of compelling evidence.

 

[Timothy_Garber]

Anyone who claims to know the future or to have had the furture revealed to them has not recieved a gift. A believer in Jesus Christ should dismiss such thoughts. I’m sure God can and and has fortold the future to some people, but for 99.99999999999999% of us it is our own imaginations. The age of the prophets is over. Dismiss the thoughts as daydreams, recollect yourself and go about your daily business.

Desiring such “Gifts” as to know the future shows a complete lack of trust in God’s providence. Not trusting the God who created you and holds you in existence is a sin. God wants you to trust him, abandoning yourself into his care. Even if such things are documented by research, it is likely that they come from evil spirits and not God.

No, you don’t have a gift. You have a lit fuse. Expect it to blow up in your face. Don’t mess around with this. Nothing good can come from it.

-Tim-

I have to agree with you, Tim, although the age of the prophets may be over, people can still be given visions from God. What really should be said here is God will pick people for certain tasks, whatever they may be. And if that task is to know a certain event, then that is what it should be. End of story.

 

[aicirt]

Anyone who claims to know the future or to have had the furture revealed to them has not recieved a gift. A believer in Jesus Christ should dismiss such thoughts. I’m sure God can and and has fortold the future to some people, but for 99.99999999999999% of us it is our own imaginations. The age of the prophets is over. Dismiss the thoughts as daydreams, recollect yourself and go about your daily business.

Desiring such “Gifts” as to know the future shows a complete lack of trust in God’s providence. Not trusting the God who created you and holds you in existence is a sin. God wants you to trust him, abandoning yourself into his care. Even if such things are documented by research, it is likely that they come from evil spirits and not God.

No, you don’t have a gift. You have a lit fuse. Expect it to blow up in your face. Don’t mess around with this. Nothing good can come from it.

-Tim-

I didn’t say I had a gift. The gift came to the person who was dying. She didn’t look for it. It came to her just like a previous poster stated it was a “feeling” she had that made her go visit. It just happens.

 

[flameburns623]

I thought hell was an eternal seperation from God. I guess Satan still has his visits up there with God then, just like he did at the time of Job.

Thinking of Heaven as “up there” is as erroneous as thinking of Hell as literally below our feet. “The Kingdom of God is within you”–sometimes translated as “AMONG you”–the Greek permits both possibilities and, I think, for reason. God, Heaven, Angels, and Saints may not be somewhere far away and high up. Lucifer and his demonic hosts may brush your sleeve with a frequency which would terrify if you but knew. These realms might be better thought of as other-dimensional. Hope this provides some food for thought.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Thinking of Heaven as “up there” is as erroneous as thinking of Hell as literally below our feet. “The Kingdom of God is within you”–sometimes translated as “AMONG you”–the Greek permits both possibilities and, I think, for reason. God, Heaven, Angels, and Saints may not be somewhere far away and high up. Lucifer and his demonic hosts may brush your sleeve with a frequency which would terrify if you but knew. These realms might be better thought of as other-dimensional. Hope this provides some food for thought.

Up, down or sideways I could care less. Your Satan still has a seat in front of your God at his will as he did at the time of Job.

 

[flameburns623]

Up, down or sideways I could care less. Your Satan still has a seat in front of your God at his will as he did at the time of Job.

Scripture calls Satan the “accuser of the brethren” and says that he “accuses them before the throne day and night”. So is this a novel idea with you? Just remember that the Saints overcome Satan “by the Blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony” and because they do not love their lives to the death.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Which journals?..

Use the link, the information is all there. If you want to comment on the paper, or discuss it with me, then read it, I posted the link for that purpose, not so I could go do everyone’s research for them,.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Hyman’s report stated that Utts’ conclusion that ESP had been proven to exist, “especially precognition, is premature and that present findings have yet to be independently replicated”.

Ray Hyman’s very famous rebuttal was pulled offline by Ray Hyman himself after an exchange with Utts many years ago. It was reposted by a skeptic and picked up by the skeptic community, even though Hyman repudiated it. This is all ancient history now.

Also, the PEARS results support the government results. You want to dismiss all of this so you can safely presume all psychism is smoke and mirrors, be my guest. But rational science says you are wrong.

People who are actually objective and curious will read the material, look for more and come to a conclusion and they won’t need either of us to assist them.