Psychic abilities...could they be real?

[Lost_Wanderer]

I do, God tells us he gave the devil many powers. Remember in the book of Job he said he could do anything etc, but take away Jobs free will.

The devil does have powers. He promises you the moon, and sometimes will also even give it to you, Look what he tried to do with Christ he offered him this world. Was this world his to give. Yep! Remember what Christ said this is not HIS world if it was we would have not let him die.

But back to the powers of satan he gives you what you want, and then the catch is, He DESTROYS you with it.

The Book of Job is in the section of the Bible that is rife with allegory and mythological tropes.

Like all tragic misreadings of the OT, you make the mistake of taking it literally instead of understanding the true lesson teaches: Fidelity in times of trial.

It is not proof that the devil has magic powers. Believe me, I actually PRAY the world functioned like that.

 

[aicirt]

Thought this was pertinent to the the discussion: “Do not quench the Spirit. Do not dispise prophecies. Test all things, hold fast what is good.” 1 Thessalonians 5:19-21

One the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. It is said that near the end, many will be given the gift. It is also said that it is the gift we should all ask for.

 

[JakeG]

Could psychic abilities be real?

I suppose it’s possible.

Are they in fact real?

I have never seen a scintilla of reliable evidence that would support the existence of psychic abilities.

While I cannot say the existence of psychic abilities is impossible with 100% certainty it seems to be wildly improbable.

 

[Luvtosew]

I was just wondering how any Catholic could believe in the Divine Mercy and not believe in phychic stuff? I mean it was ST. Faustina who had these auditory and visual hallucinations.
There was a lot of controversy over them but finally the RCC started celebrating and now the picture is all over. Its no mystery that she was phsically ill most of her life, didn’t she have TB.

I really don’t believe in the ones on TV, the Slyvia Brown types. Also don’t know about the above either, but I do believe most coincidences can’t be explained as just chance.

No doubt the mind is very powerful, we see it all the time, people who do supernatural feats, like the Japan? I think that break a brick with their hand, people walk on hot coals,etc,

and well Jesus said it all the time, one has to believe without doubt, so all I’m saying if one gets healed is it a miracle or the power of belief? Who knows.

 

[flameburns623]

I was just wondering how any Catholic could believe in the Divine Mercy and not believe in phychic stuff? I mean it was ST. Faustina who had these auditory and visual hallucinations.
There was a lot of controversy over them but finally the RCC started celebrating and now the picture is all over. Its no mystery that she was phsically ill most of her life, didn’t she have TB? . . . .

Private revelations such as Divine Mercy, Fatima, Lourdes, are investigated thoroughly and are only approved as “worthy of belief”–no Catholic is REQUIRED to believe any private revelation–if the revelation clearly does not purport to teach anything contrary to Scripture or Sacred Tradition. Things such as the state of health of the revelator(s), whether they professed these experiences for some personal motive, whether there were other factors, are closely scrutinized. Same with attested miracles–any reasonable natural explanation is considered before an event is declared a “miracle”.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Private revelations such as Divine Mercy, Fatima, Lourdes, are investigated thoroughly and are only approved as “worthy of belief”–no Catholic is REQUIRED to believe any private revelation–if the revelation clearly does not purport to teach anything contrary to Scripture or Sacred Tradition. Things such as the state of health of the revelator(s), whether they professed these experiences for some personal motive, whether there were other factors, are closely scrutinized. Same with attested miracles–any reasonable natural explanation is considered before an event is declared a “miracle”.

I don’t think it’s the revelations as much as what goes along with it for many saints. Like Faustina, Padre Pio and others were., essentially psychic. Padre Pio could tell a person all of their sins, Faustina heard from people who had passed or were about to and knew of these things before she was told. These psychic abilities manifested at times other than when they had visions or other Divinely-inspired experiences.

 

[kbwall]

The Book of Job is in the section of the Bible that is rife with allegory and mythological tropes.

Like all tragic misreadings of the OT, you make the mistake of taking it literally instead of understanding the true lesson teaches: Fidelity in times of trial.

It is not proof that the devil has magic powers. Believe me, I actually PRAY the world functioned like that

If one could sell to their soul to the devil for real magic powers, then there would liely be many more hellbound people.

But anyways, the devil is a supernatural and incorporeal being, and undoutedly has certain powers (God and the angels are always more powerful though). However, I think “selling your soul to the devil” for power is more common and more metaphorical than you probably think. Think of all the people who give in to Satan’s temptation of greed, and commit sin upon sin to stay in that power. That person is, in a way selling their soul since they have rejected God and assuming they die unrepentantly, will likely go to Hell. That person is also gaining stuff in this life. And that person doesn’t even have to believe in the supernatural.

No doubt the mind is very powerful, we see it all the time, people who do supernatural feats, like the Japan? I think that break a brick with their hand, people walk on hot coals,etc,

That is actually a feature of the body. To start with, your mind has subconscious mental blocks that prevent you from doing things like walking on coals or breaking a brick to avoid hurting yourself. A big part of martial arts is breaking these mental blocks that are holding you back. Impressive, but not really supernatural.

In a way though, wouldn’t the Pope need ‘psychic powers’ of a sort? I mean, how else could he communicate with the Holy Spirit and make infallible doctrines?

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

If one could sell to their soul to the devil for real magic powers, then there would liely be many more hellbound people.

But anyways, the devil is a supernatural and incorporeal being, and undoutedly has certain powers (God and the angels are always more powerful though). However, I think “selling your soul to the devil” for power is more common and more metaphorical than you probably think. Think of all the people who give in to Satan’s temptation of greed, and commit sin upon sin to stay in that power. That person is, in a way selling their soul since they have rejected God and assuming they die unrepentantly, will likely go to Hell. That person is also gaining stuff in this life. And that person doesn’t even have to believe in the supernatural.

Oh I have no issue with this. As a matter of fact, you oughta be telling this to the people who take Job’s tale literally.

The thing is, when you give into temptation though, you are already accountable for such a decision. The Devil didn’t really make you do it.

 

[Julia_Mae]

In a way though, wouldn’t the Pope need ‘psychic powers’ of a sort? I mean, how else could he communicate with the Holy Spirit and make infallible doctrines?

Actually, this is a really good question. If we are getting information through something other than what we consider the “normal” senses of smell, touch, sight and so on, then is it this same capacity that allows us to receive communication from … God, Saints, our Aunt Martha who passed?

 

[Luvtosew]

If one could sell to their soul to the devil for real magic powers, then there would liely be many more hellbound people.

But anyways, the devil is a supernatural and incorporeal being, and undoutedly has certain powers (God and the angels are always more powerful though). However, I think “selling your soul to the devil” for power is more common and more metaphorical than you probably think. Think of all the people who give in to Satan’s temptation of greed, and commit sin upon sin to stay in that power. That person is, in a way selling their soul since they have rejected God and assuming they die unrepentantly, will likely go to Hell. That person is also gaining stuff in this life. And that person doesn’t even have to believe in the supernatural.

That is actually a feature of the body. To start with, your mind has subconscious mental blocks that prevent you from doing things like walking on coals or breaking a brick to avoid hurting yourself. A big part of martial arts is breaking these mental blocks that are holding you back. Impressive, but not really supernatural.

In a way though, wouldn’t the Pope need ‘psychic powers’ of a sort? I mean, how else could he communicate with the Holy Spirit and make infallible doctrines?

No I know those are not supernatural but mind control feats. We all have the Holy Spirit, in some people the HS is more active. Depending on the Pope of course as a man , his communication with the HS is unknown. He is no different than you or I in that regard, you may have more communication with the spirit in you than he does. No I don’t consider that psychic power as God gave it to all who believe.

I believe your right,many would sell their souls to the devil for material and power,

but many do don’t they I mean if they aquire what they have by sinful means.

 

[kbwall]

Oh I have no issue with this. As a matter of fact, you oughta be telling this to the people who take Job’s tale literally.

The thing is, when you give into temptation though, you are already accountable for such a decision. The Devil didn’t really make you do it.

Well, yeah the devil can’t really make you do anything, he can certainly tempt you though. He tempted Eve to eat the apple, and Eve tempted Adam. Adam and Eve were held accountable, but the devil certainly played his own part.

 

[KathleenGee]

Before I left for the missions, I was in Hawaii, and almost got swept out to sea…I was laying on an air mattress and looking at the sea life below. I didn’t realize how strong the wind was, and was blown to the edge of a cove. I called out to a snorkeler, but he did not hear me. I prayed to my guardian angel to help me…and I slid off the mattress…but at that point, not into deep water with the current so many feet ahead of me…I fell on coral that had rose from a shelf separating the cove from the ocean current.

Looking at me going up and down, you would think I was walking on water. I got back…and was scratched on the inside of my heel. Inside, I looked at it and its indentation looked like an image of Satan and I felt marked…it totally creeped me out.

Anyway, years later…I saw that as a sign of being Mary’s heel…those devoted to her. And how the serpent would strike at the heel…

And years later after that I encountered someone…who wanted to join my gathering…of Mary people. In time, the Holy Spirit called me to discern this ‘someone’ who revealed more in time a contentious spirit…in regards to other people. The moment I began to discern, this person attacked me and started a movement to get me removed.

We found out this person was able to find out things that were communicated confidentially. However, there was a twist to things…there was a compromise of truth and resolving things.

I later went to our archdiocesan exorcist and he told me the person was into demons, getting information from goat horns. Years later, someone was having problems with this person…and my name was forwarded to contact me. He said there were rumors the person was sacrificing animals on their property. When police got there, there was nothing they could do because the animals being sacrificed were domestic…goats.

I felt a power of opposition that was totally immobilizing. And the only way I could get out of this bondage was to let go and go into a new direction. My psyche and the very source of my faith and relationship with God was violated.

I never believed in such things, could not believe that I could ever be damaged by such things as a devout and faithful Catholic, who received the sacraments regularly.

The word of advice is to follow the Church’s directives and to test all spirits. And the best thing to do is to avoid people who are involved with cultish activities who are seeking things but cause contention and misunderstandings. You can only stay away from them.

We all have our intuitive side, maybe there are people out there who have more sensitivity in this than others. Animals communicate to each other, horses and other animals are said to use some form of telepathy…I experienced that with my aunt’s horses as a child who played with them when I was very young.

I also believe that people’s ties with loved ones are not only one of love, but also spiritual. The spiritual world is bigger than we can imagine because it is not confined by physical boundaries. The kingdom of Christ is here for those who live in Him. And if we are faithful, we extend His kingdom to those around us…who are sanctified by our love and friendship with them. Love is the greatest power on earth and for a loved one to pass one, the news connects to us in that sacred place in us.

But to put psychic abilities out there…I would avoid that out there that cultivates it.

 

[benjohnson]

“Psychic abilities…could they be real?”

The LC-MS says absolutely not.

We listen to God speak to us, we do not imitate God.

 

[Julia_Mae]

“Psychic abilities…could they be real?”

The LC-MS says absolutely not. .

What’s the LC-MS?

 

[benjohnson]

What’s the LC-MS?

Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod.

We’re pretty conservative in this regards - we’re pretty much incompatible with the Charismatic movement, and if anybody in our church claimed to have psychic abilities, they would get a stern talking to and much counseling. We don’t outright deny the possibility, but given that God’s revelation has tended to be outside of ourselves and contained in something holy - the word made flesh, or the burning bush, we would be quite skeptical if Bob Anderson in the back pew started revealing God’s word.

Of course, this tends to shut us away from amazing things like Our Lady of Fatima, but given all the evidence and what has transpired, perhaps even we could be convinced given enough time. But our initial assumptions would be one of skepticism.

 

[Julia_Mae]

Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod.

We’re pretty conservative in this regards - we’re pretty much incompatible with the Charismatic movement, and if anybody in our church claimed to have psychic abilities, they would get a stern talking to and much counseling. We don’t outright deny the possibility, but given that God’s revelation has tended to be outside of ourselves and contained in something holy - the word made flesh, or the burning bush, we would be quite skeptical if Bob Anderson in the back pew started revealing God’s word. .

Well, the op is about being psychic generally, I think. (Although if Bob starts prophesying, he will only be doing what it says we will do in Scripture. I’m not sure how the LC-MS just writes off Scripture in this regard, but that’s another thread. ) At any rate, there’s rather a large body of research into psychism at this point which disagrees with your assessment. But I believe it by-passes any religious implications or applications.

 

[Porknpie]

“Psychic abilities…could they be real?”

The LC-MS says absolutely not.

We listen to God speak to us, we do not imitate God.

I don’t believe this is a discussion of "liberal’ or “conservative”. It’s one of Truth or not. One can have a psychic abilility but that does not mean it is for the good. I contrast an on-going “ability” with one having a psychic “event” (example: my brother in law knew immediately that his mother in law passed away as her spriit came to him as she was leaving. She lived across the street and he found her deceased when he went into the house AND my wife & I occassionally start to say the same thing despite no expectation of the discussion)

Have we defined what we are talking about? Websters definition of Psychic:

• lying outside the sphere of physical science or knowledge : immaterial, moral, or spiritual in origin or force
• sensitive to nonphysical or supernatural forces and influences : marked by extraordinary or mysterious sensitivity, perception, or understanding

Here’s a few quotes from the bible that talks about psychic mediums and “spiritists”. It’s real to me assuming the bible is the infallbile Word of God.

Leviticus 19:31 'Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Isiah 8:19 When they say to you, “Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter,” should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living?

Acts 16:19 As we were going to the place of prayer, we met a slave girl with an oracular spirit, who used to bring a large profit to her owners through her fortune-telling.

Matthew 2 Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem, saying, “Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.
In more modern times, one could look at Ellen White (SDA) conjuring up her dead husband and Joseph Smith (LDS) acting as a medium to the angel Moroni (evil spirit). They too were psychics who did not heed the call of the church (Joseph Smith did not test the spirit as scripture also states that we should do).

:coffeeread:

 

[benjohnson]

I don’t believe this is a discussion of "liberal’ or “conservative”. It’s one of Truth or not. One can have a psychic abilility but that does not mean it is for the good. I contrast an on-going “ability” with one having a psychic “event” (example: my brother in law knew immediately that his mother in law passed away as her spriit came to him as she was leaving. She lived across the street and he found her deceased when he went into the house AND my wife & I occassionally start to say the same thing despite no expectation of the discussion)

I think we would say that if one manifests an ability for inspiration, it would have to be traced back to grace of God. Perhaps God had granted this grace of foresight to people, but I think history had taught us to be very careful.

I think though, one should never assume such a God given grace of foresight alone - it should be the Church who makes the determination.

I think I’ll have to reflect more on this - perhaps my church is a bit too suspicious though this suspicion has served us well.

 

[Porknpie]

I think we would say that if one manifests an ability for inspiration, it would have to be traced back to grace of God. Perhaps God had granted this grace of foresight to people, but I think history had taught us to be very careful.

I think though, one should never assume such a God given grace of foresight alone - it should be the Church who makes the determination.

I think I’ll have to reflect more on this - perhaps my church is a bit too suspicious though this suspicion has served us well.

Ben - You sound very Catholic in your thinking. One has to be very careful and skepticism is good. Depending on your definition of psychic, Catholic mystics throught the ages have had private revelation. I would include in this appearances of the Virgin Mary to children. Fatima would be an example. This is all from the grace of God and the Church is very careful in discerning these events. No Church approved private revelation contradicts scripture and tradition. Mary always points us to love and conversion to her Son. I don’t place limits on God to work through Mary. If he raised Jesus from the dead, he can work miracles through his Mother. Oh, on the previous post, I forgot to mention that my brother in law is LCMS. He absolutely believes his mother in law came to him (where he was standing got cold and he could feel her spirit) but he doubts God would send Mary to point us to Jesus. I find this most contradictory.

On the polar opposite side of working through God’s grace, others can open themselves up to evil spirits, mainly through occult practices and staying in mortal sin. Seems to me that the definition of psychic can apply here too but from evil influences. Again, all very scriptural and historical through Church tradition (the rite of exorcism dates to the early church). I’m currently reading a book by the Vatican head exorcist. He makes the point several times that it is a challenge to discern mental illness from an evil influence. Also, I always thought of an exorcism as a one time event and it can happen but it is also common that the rite of exorcism can take prayers over a longer period of time, while needing the “patient” to repent, receive the sacraments and renew a life of prayer and conversion. Makes sense that it is God’s grace at work in their conversion.

amazon.com/An-Exorcist-Stories-Gabriele-Amorth/dp/0898709172/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_y

 

[KathleenGee]

Our Lady of Fatima is in the sphere of private revelation. A Catholic remains in good standing if he or she does not follow the counsels of Our Lady. But she came as a true prophetess…and gave the faithful hope in face of the nuclear bomb. God is greater than any human weapon of destruction.

There were 7 or 8 German Jesuit priests serving the Japanese Catholics in Japan when the bomb was dropped on Nagasaki. All lived in very close proximity to the Catholic community. They survived. About 200 scientists studied them as they had no signs of radiation. They attributed this to responding to our Lady of Fatima…morning offering and making all we are and do a loving sacrifice to Jesus, to spend time in adoration before our Lord in the tabernacles throughout the world, and to pray the daily rosary.

Likewise this remedy is the same proposed by John Paul II in response to terrorism.

As Isaiah says in other words, to consult in mediums and spirits is not turning to God. When we seek these things, we are not acting in faith in God or behaving as if we trust His care.

People who get into spiritual activities outside Catholic tradition, and are even Christian in outward appearance…-- it is happening --…are seeking power for themselves and not offering themselves to live God’s will.

The Church is basically conservative because it is following the directives of the ancient apostles to test all spirits.