Psychologist provides analysis of Catholic church's sex abuse scandal

[Tony_the_mad]

Good, bad, or ugly, I was hoping for some psychological analysis. But all there was was one line without any support at all.

There are so many things about the scandal that just doesn’t add up. Why it died in the 90s before returning at twice the strength over a decade later? Why are almost all of the cases against teen boys? Why does the media not cover similar stories about other churches and organizations with the same furor? What exactly were the Bishops thinking?

I guess it is too much to ask that there is an article that will try to answer a reasonable question objectively instead of just pandering to a particular audience.

 

[Crescentinus]

This issue is an anti-Catholic fuel.
The consensus media loves to attack Catholicism.

 

[kompaz]

While people talk and talk and talk more children get abused at the hands of drunk boyfriends, oversexed older teens and deviant step-fathers.

That’s because neither the Association of Drunk Boyfriends, Society of Oversexed Older Teens nor the Institute of Deviant Step-Fathers actively shield their members from legal responsibility for their actions.

The Catholic Church, on the other hand, has been repeatedly demonstrated to hush victims, shield abusers, and destroy evidence.

 

[kompaz]

There are so many things about the scandal that just doesn’t add up. Why it died in the 90s before returning at twice the strength over a decade later?

Read the Cloyne report. In Ireland, after the scandals of the '90s, the Church was forced to institute some reporting procedures, and the authorities sort of backed off, assuming that the Church would finally stop shielding the offenders. Fast forward ten years, victims themselves again start showing up at the police stations. The police finds that the Cloyne Diocese knew about the new offenses and did not report them, instead, it engaged in a coverup effort involving falsifying and destruction of records. Some of the Cloyne papers were sent to Vatican, which then refused the request to handle them over. The Irish gov’t retorted by closing its embassy to Vatican, officially for economic reasons.

Why are almost all of the cases against teen boys?

A 2002 nationwide poll in America by the Los Angeles Times of 1,854 Roman Catholic priests reported that 80% of referred to themselves as “mostly” heterosexual, with 67% being exclusively heterosexual, 8% leaning toward heterosexual, 5% completely in the middle, and 6% leaning toward homosexual and 9% saying they are homosexual, for a combined figure of 15% on the homosexual side. Among younger priests (those ordained for 20 years or less) the figure was 23%.

The same survey reported that 44% of the priests said “definitely” a “homosexual subculture”, defined as a “definite group of persons that has its own friendships, social gatherings and vocabulary”, exists in their diocese or religious order. A 2001 survey conducted by Dean Hoge for Catholic University of America found that 19% of priests said “clearly there is a subculture”, 36% said there probably is and 17% said there is not.[3]

A number of anonymous studies have also suggested a prevalence of homosexual leanings in the Roman Catholic priesthood. Studies by Wolf and Sipe from the early 1990s suggest that the percentage of priests in the Catholic Church who admitted to being gay or were in homosexual relationships was well above the national average for the United States of America.[4] Elizabeth Stuart, a former convener of the Catholic Caucus of the Lesbian and Gay Christian movement claimed, “It has been estimated that at least 33 percent of all priests in the RC Church in the United States are homosexual.”[5]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholic_priests#Estimating_the_number_of_homosexual_priests

Population-wide prevalence of homosexuality is about 5%, hence there is a strong overrepresentation of (closeted) homosexuals in the Catholic clergy.

Why does the media not cover similar stories about other churches and organizations with the same furor?

Did you miss the coverage of Penn State?

 

[kompaz]

NOW it’s time to hold others accountable, and protect children from other groups of people who abuse %400 more often! Be fair & care about all children!

Say that a typical child abuser is a drunk step father. How many children can he abuse? Only those which are in his family. In most cases that means one, several at most.

In contrast, there are documented instanced of RC priests who would abuse hundreds of victims each. This is because the Church institution has created an environment where an average pedophile can become an unstoppable molestation machine. That kid is claiming something? Tell him to shut up and stop slandering the priests under the penalty of excommunication (Crimen Sollicitationis). What more kids are coming up? People apparently don’t like you here; we’ll send you somewhere else. (Card. Law) What are you saying, officer, a pedophile priest? There were no complaints… Oh, they’re saying they told our bishop? Well, they are lying… No, you cannot see the protocol from the conversation, because we’ve sent it to Vatican (Cloyne). You’re saying you’re a pedophile my son? Here, take the $20K, go and sin no more (Card. Dolan).

 

[BroomWagon]

It’s a difficult subject, I do wonder if an evil is at work sometimes in all of this, the Church was under attack in World War II, in the post-war era, during many times in history.

 

[BroomWagon]

Read the Cloyne report. In Ireland, after the scandals of the '90s, the Church was forced to institute some reporting procedures, and the authorities sort of backed off, assuming that the Church would finally stop shielding the offenders. Fast forward ten years, victims themselves again start showing up at the police stations. The police finds that the Cloyne Diocese knew about the new offenses and did not report them, instead, it engaged in a coverup effort involving falsifying and destruction of records. Some of the Cloyne papers were sent to Vatican, which then refused the request to handle them over. The Irish gov’t retorted by closing its embassy to Vatican, officially for economic reasons.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Roman_Catholic_priests#Estimating_the_number_of_homosexual_priests

Population-wide prevalence of homosexuality is about 5%, hence there is a strong overrepresentation of (closeted) homosexuals in the Catholic clergy.

Did you miss the coverage of Penn State?

Right, Penn State, big institution.

Still, I hear about these things in the school system and it happens elsewhere if one just checks out the news. One should do news searches for a month or so if one really wants to see what kinds of rates we are dealing with in society and wants to be honest and fair about the subject.

Of course, that is no excuse for the acts of some.

 

[centurionguard]

I don’t find Demographic Statistics giving account of an outdated mean 5% of priests in North America reflect the true actual number of homosexual priest. Such statistics only reflect reported declaration of priests who have openly affirmed their homosexuality which amounts between 2000-2500 in the United States and Canada alone.

Its the priests who haven’t openly declared their homosexuality that more importantly reflect the greater scope. Some conjectured estimates on a global scale put the ratio at 20-50% plus. Appalling sure; but considering how immorality has infected the world on a cancerous rampant scale its not that surprising. Growing Infesting immorality IMHO is the reason why there’s a dramatic decrease of men joining the priesthood.

Peace
Chris

 

[OriginalJS]

You have heard only one side of this issue through the liberal media who “hate” The Church.

FACT Your child is 4 times more likely to be molested by their teacher than a priest! But they, the media, don’t report this huge problem/concern because it does not furthur their cause to build hate towards The Church.

FACT Most of the molestation of minors actually involved gay priests having sexual relationships with teenage boys! The gay life style is predatory towards young boys.** Of course the media would NEVER report anything negative about the gay lifestyle,**

FACT Married men have a much higher molestation rate then Catholic Priests. Compared to the general population sexual abuse is statisticly low in the Priest hood. The media have lied to you!

FACT Our whole society lacks morals and self control, while celebrating ever increasing sexual liberty which the media promotes!!! and The Church discourages at every turn.

 :thumbsup:

It is difficult to rely on claims regarding statistics about priestly sexual abuse because it was covered up so effectively for so long. When sexual abuse by teachers has been discovered, school administrators have not, as a matter of policy, covered it up and teachers have been prosecuted for their offenses. The earlier church policy of covering up child sexual abuse and moving offending priests to new locations simply to avoid public humiliation has backfired terribly in the long run, as it has undermined Church credibility.

Saying the “whole society lacks morals and self control” is quite an indictment!. This general statement is overly inclusive and hyperbolic. I know many people, as I am sure everyone does, who have high moral standards and exercise exemplary self control.

 

[interestedman]

It is clear that many priests and bishops cared far more about the church’s standing and how it was viewed by the public than victims.

 

[OriginalJS]

I don’t find Demographic Statistics giving account of an outdated mean 5% of priests in North America reflect the true actual number of homosexual priest. Such statistics only reflect reported declaration of priests who have openly affirmed their homosexuality which amounts between 2000-2500 in the United States and Canada alone.

Its the priests who haven’t openly declared their homosexuality that more importantly reflect the greater scope. Some conjectured estimates on a global scale put the ratio at 20-50% plus. Appalling sure; but considering how immorality has infected the world on a cancerous rampant scale its not that surprising. Growing Infesting immorality IMHO is the reason why there’s a dramatic decrease of men joining the priesthood.

Peace
Chris

No one really knows how many priests are homosexual. From Catholic media it appears that more, not fewer, men are now studying to become priests than in recent years.

 

[interestedman]

It would only make sense that there are more gay priests than gays in the regular population. If you were a good Catholic and knew you were gay then why wouldn’t you become a priest? You know you aren’t supposed to have a relationship with another man, you aren’t going to live a lie and marry a woman just because you are supposed to, so the priesthood is a noble option. Also, some of these people probably think that their urges will subside while in the priesthood.

You could say the same thing about men with pedophile urges. Except the urges don’t go away and then you have priests raping children.

 

[BroomWagon]

It would only make sense that there are more gay priests than gays in the regular population. ** If you were a good Catholic ** and knew you were gay then why wouldn’t you become a priest? You know you aren’t supposed to have a relationship with another man, you aren’t going to live a lie and marry a woman just because you are supposed to, so the priesthood is a noble option. Also, some of these people probably think that their urges will subside while in the priesthood.

You could say the same thing about men with pedophile urges. Except the urges don’t go away and then you have priests raping children.

But you wouldn’t be a ‘good Catholic’.

 

[OriginalJS]

Why does the media not cover similar stories about other churches and organizations with the same furor?

The media does cover similar stories. I see them all the time.

 

[BroomWagon]

Non-Catholic Churches have these things happening in them but are usually not such a large institution the way the Catholic Church is.

 

[centurionguard]

No one really knows how many priests are homosexual. From Catholic media it appears that more, not fewer, men are now studying to become priests than in recent years.

Naturally on a demographic scale the increased claim of new priest’s coming out of seminaries get swallowed up in larger populated cities in demand. It makes it difficult to substantiate claimed increases in new priest in smaller areas.

My archdiocese had 50 plus priests prior to 1980 and now less than 20 officially belonging to my archdiocese. Of those 20 remaining priests the majority are well over 65 years of age. More than a dozen parishes have closed in this time period. With the recent installment of a new archbishop he’s having to look over seas to find priests which is an extremely arduous task in itself. Statistics in themselves don’t always paint the bigger picture.

Peace
Chris

 

[kompaz]

But you wouldn’t be a ‘good Catholic’.

Well, first of all you have to know that you are a homosexual.

There’s an interesting correlation between increased societal acceptance of homosexuality and drop in vocations. There’s also a rather curious opposition from Catholic circles to teaching kids at school about homosexuality.

When you are growing up and you are a homosexual, that may not be completely obvious to you. Particularly, if your society attaches stigma to homosexuality – you will simply convince yourself that you are not homosexual. One thing you will notice, though, is your utter and complete lack of interest in women. So, you can convince yourself into thinking that since you are not into women, it must mean that God has chosen you for the priesthood by making you asexual. So, you join a seminar, which is full of similar closeted homosexuals… And then things start to be um… interesting.

 

[BroomWagon]

Well, first of all you have to know that you are a homosexual.

There’s an interesting correlation between increased societal acceptance of homosexuality and drop in vocations. There’s also a rather curious opposition from Catholic circles to teaching kids at school about homosexuality.

When you are growing up and you are a homosexual, that may not be completely obvious to you. Particularly, if your society attaches stigma to homosexuality – you will simply convince yourself that you are not homosexual. One thing you will notice, though, is your utter and complete lack of interest in women. So, you can convince yourself into thinking that since you are not into women, it must mean that God has chosen you for the priesthood by making you asexual. So, you join a seminar, which is full of similar closeted homosexuals… And then things start to be um… interesting.

The thing is is I don’t know if it can be established vocations are dropping let alone with anecdotal accounts.

March 30, 2012

Vocations to priesthood growing in the diocese

Andy Telli, Tennessee Register

While kneeling at the altar of St. Christopher Church in Dickson as a server, thoughts of a vocation to the priesthood began stirring in Michel Fye.

dioceseofnashville.com/a-priesthood-growing.htm

 

[gus]

Tony the mad;9832990:

Why does the media not cover similar stories about other churches and organizations with the same furor?

The media does cover similar stories. I see them all the time.

The amount of ink and air time spent covering the Catholic Sec abuse scandel is extremely disproportionate.
There are about 600,000 to 3,000,000 cases of sex abuse in the US annually. The Catholic sex abuse scandel accounted for. between 10,000 and 100,000 cases over 50 year
The high numbers are estimated unreported due to the nature of the crime.
We have 500 cases of sexual abuse reported but not acted upon currently in Marcopa County
The number of accused priests are about 1500
There are currently moreregistered sec offenders. In the Phoenix area than. that.
Often the same cases are given top news coverage over and over againto give the impression that sexualabuse is an exclusive Catholic problem.
That is an anti-child position

 

[kompaz]

The thing is is I don’t know if it can be established vocations are dropping let alone with anecdotal accounts.

What else happened in Western Europe?