Psychology, Vs. Relgion, Homosexuals

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Just a generalized question.
Code: 
 Under which conditions or authority  does the American Psychology Institute
( assuming that is the leading authority.) have proof and reasoning over Christian Judea values. Such as the most obvious is the normalization of homosexuality.
I feel that psychology is a pseudo science with no hard evidence to back up its theories such as mathematics or physics.
I find no logical arguments in most psychology only hypothesis that can not be proved or disproved for that matter.
Furthermore I find the generalization of most psychological problems to be found in Genesis where mans sinful nature is described.
My take on psychology, is that everyone is crazy, its how much confidence you have that makes you sane or insane, or for others trust in God for that matter.
Therefore, who grants the APA papal authority on moral matters over the residing society, and makes them truths?
 
Jessup said:
Just a generalized question.
Code: 
 Under which conditions or authority  does the American Psychology Institute...
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I think you are referring to the American Psychiatric Association. They create and publish the DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders). I am assuming there is an association of neurologists who publish definitive works, also, but I don’t know.
have proof and reasoning over Christian Judea values.
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I don’t think you can demonstrate that they do, although I’m not quite sure what you meant by “proof and reasoning.”
Such as the most obvious is the normalization of homosexuality.
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Well, let’s ask it the other way: why should the values of different religious groups hold sway over medical science? (I understand you have little respect for psychology as a whole, but the psychiatrists are MDs.)

The AMA didn’t “normalize” homosexuality, they just removed it from the list of mental disorders. In other words, it isn’t an illness or defect or anything else that either needs treatment or can be treated.
I feel that psychology is a pseudo science with no hard evidence to back up its theories such as mathematics or physics.
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Then you are free to ignore it.
My take on psychology, is that everyone is crazy, its how much confidence you have that makes you sane or insane, or for others trust in God for that matter.
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As person who has been diagnosed with and lives with multiple mental illnesses and has for over 6 decades, I can assure you, not everyone is crazy.
Therefore, who grants the APA papal authority on moral matters over the residing society, and makes them truths?
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Different people believe different things. For instance, when the APA was calling homosexuality a mental illness, many people did not believe them. Now that they have removed it from the DSM, many people believe it must be.

I believe you are incorrect about the APA having any authority at all over anything but itself.
 
Jessup said:
Just a generalized question.
Code: 
 Under which conditions or authority  does the American Psychology Institute
( assuming that is the leading authority.) have proof and reasoning over Christian Judea values. Such as the most obvious is the normalization of homosexuality.
I feel that psychology is a pseudo science with no hard evidence to back up its theories such as mathematics or physics.
I find no logical arguments in most psychology only hypothesis that can not be proved or disproved for that matter.
Furthermore I find the generalization of most psychological problems to be found in Genesis where mans sinful nature is described.
My take on psychology, is that everyone is crazy, its how much confidence you have that makes you sane or insane, or for others trust in God for that matter.
Therefore, who grants the APA papal authority on moral matters over the residing society, and makes them truths?
Click to expand...
You either have forgotten, or never have learned that Psychology is not a science. At best, it is a secular art.
And, from the way you wirte, I will bet that you are either an adolescent or a troll!
 
Dear Jessup–

I don’t know a lot about psychology, just many years of being around people (for better or worse, usually worse 😉 )

“Normal” is a funny concept; it has come to mean “what pertains to most people” but that really isn’t what it is. For example, most people are right-handed, but that doesn’t mean southpaws are “abnormal.” If you are left-handed, then left-handed is “normal” for you even if it isn’t normal for the majority of people. My daughter had to learn to do a lot of things right-handed as a child because equipment made for lefties wasn’t available to her at school. To this day she still uses right-handed scissors and throws a ball right-handed. To me, this is “abnormal” because it isn’t what she really is, it was forced upon her by circumstance. But to anyone seeing her use scissors or throwing a ball, she looks perfectly “normal.”

I’m sorry, I’m tired and starting to blather on…what I’m trying to say is that there is a lot of wiggle room for “normal” and that someone who doesn’t conform to the majority isn’t necessarily abnormal.

Jala
 
Jessup said:
Just a generalized question.
Code: 
 Under which conditions or authority  does the American Psychology Institute
( assuming that is the leading authority.) have proof and reasoning over Christian Judea values. Such as the most obvious is the normalization of homosexuality.
I feel that psychology is a pseudo science with no hard evidence to back up its theories such as mathematics or physics.
I find no logical arguments in most psychology only hypothesis that can not be proved or disproved for that matter.
Furthermore I find the generalization of most psychological problems to be found in Genesis where mans sinful nature is described.
My take on psychology, is that everyone is crazy, its how much confidence you have that makes you sane or insane, or for others trust in God for that matter.
Therefore, who grants the APA papal authority on moral matters over the residing society, and makes them truths?
Click to expand...
It seems to me that the behaviors which people find acceptable are not classified as psychological “disorders” whereas the behaviors which people find unacceptable are classified as “disorders”. That definitely seems to be the case with homosexuality.

If we proceed strictly by human reasoning, it’s not hard to prove that homosexuality is a disordered tendency. Order implies purpose. If something functions according to its purpose, then it is ordered. If there is no God, then there is no purpose to our existence and there is objectively no disorder, so the ASA can pack their bags and go home. If there is a God, then we can talk about disorders.

So what is the purpose of the male reproductive organ? It is to reproduce! It’s purpose is not to enter another male’s mouth or worse his a*hole. It is designed to enter into a woman’s vagina. Any behavior that is contrary to that purpose is disordered.
 
edwest2 said:
Psychiatrists are doctors. Second, the way Homosexuality was removed as a disorder from the DSM in 1973 shows that outside pressure, not scientific research, was involved.
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And all the other organisations in the US also folded under outside pressure? Plus all the ones in the rest of the civilised world?

How do you feel about comparing all the countries that do consider it a disorder against the ones that don’t? Would you prefer to live in one of the ones that do class it as a disorder?
 
I am a therapist who has spent my whole life studying and learning psychology up through the graduate level and beyond. Not all of psychology is emperically proven, but some is. There are studies that demonstrate that certain theoretical approaches, i.e. Cognitive Behavior Therapy and Rational Emotive Behavior, are effective treatments for mental disorders.

It is difficult to throw hard science down against something as fluid and complex as mental health. As a psychotherapist, I am infinitely grateful for the psychocological theorists who have come before me who offer guidance as I work with client toward better mental health, better interpersonal effectiveness, and a higher quality of life. Hard evidence or not, many theories and techniques work for many people. I tend toward an Integrative theoretical orientation so as to find the best of techniques to apply to individual clients and their specific situations. I am also a very strong Christian and have not struggled too much to integrate spiritual and Biblical principles within the frameworks of most theoretial orientations.

I LOVE studying psychology and learning to apply it to myself and my clients; I’m sorry others do not share my enthusiasm.
 
Jessup said:
Just a generalized question.
Code: 
 Under which conditions or authority  does the American Psychology Institute
( assuming that is the leading authority.) have proof and reasoning over Christian Judea values. Such as the most obvious is the normalization of homosexuality.
I feel that psychology is a pseudo science with no hard evidence to back up its theories such as mathematics or physics.
I find no logical arguments in most psychology only hypothesis that can not be proved or disproved for that matter.
Furthermore I find the generalization of most psychological problems to be found in Genesis where mans sinful nature is described.
My take on psychology, is that everyone is crazy, its how much confidence you have that makes you sane or insane, or for others trust in God for that matter.
Therefore, who grants the APA papal authority on moral matters over the residing society, and makes them truths?
Click to expand...
Have you ever taken a general psychology course? If not, I would suggest you do since that would broaden your understanding of what psychology is about. Half of all psychologists don’t deal with psychological disorders or problems at all.
 
Can’t sleep. Don’t quite know why I am weighing in on this at this time of morning, but here goes.

It seems to me that there are a range of explanations for homosexuality. I have know lots of homosexuals who are very well adjusted, mature, caring, have good boundaries with other people and are just generally good people.

I have known others or come in contact with others who live in more pain due to the same kind of psychological hurts “enjoyed” by straight people with the additional dose of non acceptance due to their homosexuality. Therapy can often alleviate the symptoms these people suffer, but do not change their sexual orientation one iota.

The other group may be people who are antisocial in some way, who act out homosexuality and use others to this end. May may indeed be bisexual and use and abuse women and men without much care or concern. These are the ones I would call truly disordered.
 
meltzerboy said:
Have you ever taken a general psychology course? If not, I would suggest you do since that would broaden your understanding of what psychology is about. Half of all psychologists don’t deal with psychological disorders or problems at all.
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Yes I have taken a general psychology course. Much of my background is in mathematics and physical sciences. Linear algebra, numerical methods in calculus,
But, I feel that much of the normalizing would have been decisions made off of statistical data.
To find what population of people have had homosexual relations, thus making it not a mental disorder if it is with in a certain limit of the bell curve.
 
George_Stegmeir said:
You either have forgotten, or never have learned that Psychology is not a science. At best, it is a secular art.
And, from the way you wirte, I will bet that you are either an adolescent or a troll!
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Look, what I’m asking is,

why the “accredited associational authority”;
(whom I assumed was APA but have been informed is a differn’t orginization)
which has made the decisions to normalize homosexuality; as no longer making it a mental disorder. Thus having superior authority in their reasoning over Christian Judea values. By what proof does their studies supercede Chrstian Judea law?
I believe if it was statistical sampling of behavior as what is given in the kinsley report, then the null hypothesis could be directed to say that much of the population suffers from this disorder, rather then this disorder is normal.
 
WesleyF said:
It seems to me that the behaviors which people find acceptable are not classified as psychological “disorders” whereas the behaviors which people find unacceptable are classified as “disorders”. That definitely seems to be the case with homosexuality.

If we proceed strictly by human reasoning, it’s not hard to prove that homosexuality is a disordered tendency. Order implies purpose. If something functions according to its purpose, then it is ordered. If there is no God, then there is no purpose to our existence and there is objectively no disorder, so the ASA can pack their bags and go home. If there is a God, then we can talk about disorders.

So what is the purpose of the male reproductive organ? It is to reproduce! It’s purpose is not to enter another male’s mouth or worse his a*hole. It is designed to enter into a woman’s vagina. Any behavior that is contrary to that purpose is disordered.
Click to expand...
That is the approach I am trying to take
 
lifeandhope said:
I am a therapist who has spent my whole life studying and learning psychology up through the graduate level and beyond. Not all of psychology is emperically proven, but some is. There are studies that demonstrate that certain theoretical approaches, i.e. Cognitive Behavior Therapy and Rational Emotive Behavior, are effective treatments for mental disorders.

It is difficult to throw hard science down against something as fluid and complex as mental health. As a psychotherapist, I am infinitely grateful for the psychocological theorists who have come before me who offer guidance as I work with client toward better mental health, better interpersonal effectiveness, and a higher quality of life. Hard evidence or not, many theories and techniques work for many people. I tend toward an Integrative theoretical orientation so as to find the best of techniques to apply to individual clients and their specific situations. I am also a very strong Christian and have not struggled too much to integrate spiritual and Biblical principles within the frameworks of most theoretial orientations.

I LOVE studying psychology and learning to apply it to myself and my clients; I’m sorry others do not share my enthusiasm.
Click to expand...
When I took my gen ed psychology class, it was the most depressing thing I’ve ever sat through, do you feel many of your peers are depressed in your industry working as therapist?
 
Bradski said:
And all the other organisations in the US also folded under outside pressure? Plus all the ones in the rest of the civilised world?

How do you feel about comparing all the countries that do consider it a disorder against the ones that don’t? Would you prefer to live in one of the ones that do class it as a disorder?
Click to expand...
Nice try. I can give you a link to a doctor who has stopped prescribing the birth control pill to women having certain medical issues. He has found out there are other ways to solve their problems that don’t use a pill. He explained it very simply (paraphrasing): “We were all taught in medical school that this was the answer, the treatment.” He didn’t know any better until he discovered that there were alternatives, and that there are other doctors using using those alternatives.

Civilized? I’ll tell you what’s not civilized or even rational: I’ll go out and have sex with anybody even though I’ll put myself at risk for HIV/AIDS. Or, something even more irrational: I cannot have sex unless I have a condom or a pill or an IUD. In other words – a tiny part of my body totally controls me and I can’t control myself. There are a lot of deluded people walking around who believe that.

And Melinda Gates. “I know. I’ll just buy condoms for all these people because I’ve accepted the lie THAT NONE OF THEM CAN CONTROL THEMSELVES!”

With all due respect, who decides for you? The Church? The State? NO - YOU DO.

If anyone wants to call himself civilized and accepts the irrational idea that a small part of their body CONTROLS them, then they are not rational, much less civilized.

Peace,
Ed
 
Psychology is a real science and studies real and observable behaviors and such. It is not an art. However, I do believe the condoning of homosexuality truly is nothing more than outside influence and gay pride really setting its roots in society.

To say that psychology is not a real science is incredibly ignorant, since psychology is used pretty much everywhere. No psychology means no therapists and no understanding of the brain.

Unfortunately, psychology has also lead to bad things, such as the irritating belief that evil-doers are not responsible for their actions and it’s not their fault. Which leads me to believe that maybe it might be for the best that homosexuality is not listed as a disorder, since we’d just have even more people saying it’s not their fault. Sociology has this same problem too, in that it blames everything on the rich. Sociology, unlike psychology though, is a laughable attempt at science. It’s just pretentiously assigning words to common sense things that pretty much everybody already noticed.
 
Bradski said:
And all the other organisations in the US also folded under outside pressure? Plus all the ones in the rest of the civilised world?

How do you feel about comparing all the countries that do consider it a disorder against the ones that don’t? Would you prefer to live in one of the ones that do class it as a disorder?
Click to expand...
The problem is these groups are not simply science based organizations but they have a large political component as well. Even the science aspect is not beyond assailability.

Our scientistic culture does not look critically at these groups and often accepts whatever their current opinion happens to be.
 
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