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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
I’m more than a little tired of wishy-washy, overintellectual Catholics letting Evangelicals do all the heavy lifting.
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MariaTS
Guest
I’m more than very tired of Catholics behaving like right-wing Evangelicals.
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edwest2
Guest
overintellectual? Their ideas come from those places that promote public nudity by giving it the appearance of something intellectual.
God bless,
Ed
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BobObob
Guest
My positions are in line with JPII’s Theology of the Body.
Here’s a portion of what JPII wrote (originally posted by Papawbooks):
"Because God created it, the human body can remain nude and and uncovered and preserve intact its splendor and its beauty…Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness…Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person…The human body is not in itself shameful …Shamelessness [just like shame and modesty] is a function of the interior of a person.’
—Karol Cardinal Woytyla [Pope John Paul ll ]
‘Love & responsibility’, 1981
Do you think JPII’s positions are intellectual or pseudo-intellectual?
Overall, modesty is about properly respecting the body, which is a temple of the Holy Spirit. One may potentially properly respect the body without covering it. However, if by not covering it, one is treating their body the like a harlot would treat her body, than the body is not being treated like a temple of the Holy Spirit.
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papawbooks
Guest
2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.
As it says in #2514 modesty may vary from one culture to another. Our culture has wandered of the path. When it is held wrong for a mother to be asked to stop breastfeeding her baby or to be thrown off the bus. This is nothing but the devil getting his way. What we need is for a little common sense to be back in our society. A hundred years ago it was nothing for a group of kids, both male and female to go down to the swimming hole and swim together. This lack of casual nudity is why we have a good number of men addicted to pornography. You say that you are a disciple of Jesus. Do you know that he was baptized nude, and remember on Holy Thursday when He set His clothes aside and wrapped a towel around His waist and washed the feet of His disciples. Casual nudity in Jesus’ time was normal.Even in the Church there was nude baptism ordered as regular procedure. St. Cyril of Jerusalem [c. 350A.D.], after those to be baptized had taken off all their clothes addressed them:“You are now stripped and naked, in this also imitating Christ Despoiled of His garments on His Cross, He Who by His nakedness despoiled the principalities and powers, and fearlessly triumphed over them on the Cross”.
Chastity is thinking saying and doing nothing for the purpose of willful sexual arousal outside marriage. Sexual modesty is conducting ourselves in accord with chastity. On the other hand, immodesty is doing something to sexual arouse another outside marriage. No physical thing is of itself immodest. On the other hand anything at all can be immodest if it is used to try to arouse another person.
A quotation from Job: 1:21 And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return; the LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.” Job realized this the hard way. We can realize it in a much more pleasant way, simply going nude when clothes make no sense.
WHERE CHARITY AND LOVE PREVAIL
GOD BLESS
As it says in #2514 modesty may vary from one culture to another. Our culture has wandered of the path. When it is held wrong for a mother to be asked to stop breastfeeding her baby or to be thrown off the bus. This is nothing but the devil getting his way. What we need is for a little common sense to be back in our society. A hundred years ago it was nothing for a group of kids, both male and female to go down to the swimming hole and swim together. This lack of casual nudity is why we have a good number of men addicted to pornography. You say that you are a disciple of Jesus. Do you know that he was baptized nude, and remember on Holy Thursday when He set His clothes aside and wrapped a towel around His waist and washed the feet of His disciples. Casual nudity in Jesus’ time was normal.Even in the Church there was nude baptism ordered as regular procedure. St. Cyril of Jerusalem [c. 350A.D.], after those to be baptized had taken off all their clothes addressed them:“You are now stripped and naked, in this also imitating Christ Despoiled of His garments on His Cross, He Who by His nakedness despoiled the principalities and powers, and fearlessly triumphed over them on the Cross”.
Chastity is thinking saying and doing nothing for the purpose of willful sexual arousal outside marriage. Sexual modesty is conducting ourselves in accord with chastity. On the other hand, immodesty is doing something to sexual arouse another outside marriage. No physical thing is of itself immodest. On the other hand anything at all can be immodest if it is used to try to arouse another person.
A quotation from Job: 1:21 And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return; the LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.” Job realized this the hard way. We can realize it in a much more pleasant way, simply going nude when clothes make no sense.
WHERE CHARITY AND LOVE PREVAIL
GOD BLESS
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
And you’re pretty much doing to this what the pseudo-intellectuals did to Vat II.
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BobObob
Guest
Please back up your accusation.
BTW, It might take me a while to respond because I’m travelling.
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otjm
Guest
LOL!!!
My daughter went to France to study, and naively ended up at a public beach with a number of other people nude. From her description:
An extremely overweight 60+ year old woman whose skin looks like old beat up leather: now that is sinful!
But certainly not in the sense of the sin of creating lust… more likey the sin of creating unmitigated horror and the immediate urge to toss one’s cookies. Or perhaps, in this case, one’s French pastries…
My daughter went to France to study, and naively ended up at a public beach with a number of other people nude. From her description:
An extremely overweight 60+ year old woman whose skin looks like old beat up leather: now that is sinful!
But certainly not in the sense of the sin of creating lust… more likey the sin of creating unmitigated horror and the immediate urge to toss one’s cookies. Or perhaps, in this case, one’s French pastries…
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avflf
Guest
Naively???
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BobObob
Guest
Must have been a shocking experience!LOL!!!
My daughter went to France to study, and naively ended up at a public beach with a number of other people nude. From her description:
An extremely overweight 60+ year old woman whose skin looks like old beat up leather: now that is sinful!
But certainly not in the sense of the sin of creating lust… more likey the sin of creating unmitigated horror and the immediate urge to toss one’s cookies. Or perhaps, in this case, one’s French pastries…
For those overweight 60+ year old women, being nude other than locations designated for nudity wouldn’t be so much a sin against modesty as it would be a sin against charity. After all, who wants to randomly see them nude where they aren’t expecting it!
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otjm
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Yes, she did not know such things existed. Long story. She was, however, hilarious in her recounting of the incident.Naively???
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avflf
Guest
Oh, I see. She went to a nudist place but kept herself dressed. Thanks for clarifying it. I actually posted above that “public nudity is a sin” only if you’re over 50. After 60 it must become a mortal sin
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Ponyguy
Guest
As mentioned elsewhere, many (if not most) beaches in Europe are quite tolerant of either partial (topless) or occasionally complete nudity. It’s just the way things have always been… And this is the time that many people learn that those “Playboy-Playmate-perfect models” are an extreme rarity in the real world.Oh, I see. She went to a nudist place but kept herself dressed. Thanks for clarifying it. I actually posted above that “public nudity is a sin” only if you’re over 50. After 60 it must become a mortal sin
Those “Lane Bryant” size models are somewhat closer to reality…
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otjm
Guest
No, actually she and a couple of the other students went to the beach; their destination was not to go to a nude beach but simply to go to th4 beach (as she had numerous times in Oregon), and they had no idea that it was permitted. She found out when got there; she was both embarrassed and grossed out.Oh, I see. She went to a nudist place but kept herself dressed. Thanks for clarifying it. I actually posted above that “public nudity is a sin” only if you’re over 50. After 60 it must become a mortal sin
Her description, however, was hilarious; I did not do it justice.
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BobObob
Guest
As mentioned elsewhere, many (if not most) beaches in Europe are quite tolerant of either partial (topless) or occasionally complete nudity. It’s just the way things have always been… And this is the time that many people learn that those “Playboy-Playmate-perfect models” are an extreme rarity in the real world.
I’ve read somewhere that in France, beaches are clothes-optional by default, and that nudity is legal in all beaches but two in that country. I’m guessing that one of those two was stormed on D-day, and thus has more historical rather than recreational significance.
I’ve also read somewhere that significantly high percentage of nudists are older people. I wonder why that may be.
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Moscati
Guest
This happened to me in Italy.LOL!!!
My daughter went to France to study, and naively ended up at a public beach with a number of other people nude. From her description:
An extremely overweight 60+ year old woman whose skin looks like old beat up leather: now that is sinful!
But certainly not in the sense of the sin of creating lust… more likey the sin of creating unmitigated horror and the immediate urge to toss one’s cookies. Or perhaps, in this case, one’s French pastries…
Oddly, it was only the people who really looked awful naked that were . . . anyone who could possible have been lust-arousing (at least on my part) was perfectly well covered. 
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Carl1949
Guest
Nudity, public or private, is not in and of itself sinful. Pope John Paul II wrote that simply nudity is not sinful. (Theology of the Body). Furthermore, we are told that God ordered Isaiah to live and preach nude for three years. (Isaiah 20:3-6) God would have hardly ordered a prophet to do something that is sinful. Also, it appears likely that Jesus Himself rose from the dead naked. His burials cloths are left in the tomb. As we see from the Shroud of Turin he was buried naked. It seems then that nudity (publi or private) cannot therefore be sinful in and of itself. It would depend on: the context of the situation, the motive for doing so, the culture of the place, etc. I once had to pick up a missionary from Africa at the airport. He was coming to make an appeal. Around the airport are a lot of strip clubs. He laughed and said: “You Americans are crazy. You spend millions of dollars to send clothes to our country and you spend millions of dollars to watch people take them off here!”
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LCMS_No_More
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Let’s see…nude human body = sin.
Hmm…is it any wonder that I have serious body issues after reading a thread like this?
Hmm…is it any wonder that I have serious body issues after reading a thread like this?
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edwest2
Guest
I reject the ‘go nekkid’ philosophy. It has no value.
God bless,
Ed
God bless,
Ed
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ICMa
Guest
I think that it depends by the place, the time, the situation…
Till 1950s, the boys were required to be full naked at YMCA swimming pools.
Till 1950s, the boys were required to be full naked at YMCA swimming pools.
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