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LRThunder
Guest
Prove that it isn’t a myth. Personal experiences in one parish doesn’t constitute proof.Well, unfortunately, it isn’t myth. Although I can see where some might like to affirm some revisionist history.
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ethelzguy
Guest
So, what does? 70 years of Catholic life in MANY parishes over the years? How many women praying rosaries during Latin Mass does it take to convince you?
So, what is your “standard” of “proof” ?
The burden of proof is on those claiming it to be a myth that it is indeed, a myth.
Countless posters have shared their experiences with witnessing people at Latin Masses praying rosaries etc…
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eelpis
Guest
So what if some prayed the rosary during mass? What’s important is to participate in the sacrifice interiorly, that can be done while praying the rosary. Today some seem to think that if you shout the loudest and walk around in the sanctuary the most conspiciously, God will hear you better. Well, he won’t.:banghead:So, what does? 70 years of Catholic life in MANY parishes over the years? How many women praying rosaries during Latin Mass does it take to convince you?
So, what is your “standard” of “proof” ?
The burden of proof is on those claiming it to be a myth that it is indeed, a myth.
Countless posters have shared their experiences with witnessing people at Latin Masses praying rosaries etc…
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ethelzguy
Guest
So you are saying that mentally, you can fully participate and pay attention to the Mass AND give your full devotion to the rosary you are saying at the same time?
:banghead:
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eelpis
Guest
What is prayer? It’s a lifting of the heart and mind to God.
That’s almost a definition of what the Mass is too.
I’m not saying that the rosary is the most suitable way for all to participate in mass but it could well have been for some.
Besides I think all theses derogatory remarks about both the rosary and the mass are unbecoming for Catholics.
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ethelzguy
Guest
Well, Mass takes an hour a day, which leaves you another 23 to say your rosary.
You can’t possibly be giving yourself totally to the Mass if you’re back in the pew saying a rosary. But then again, maybe that was the whole point to begin with. People didn’t understand the Latin (beyond rote recital), so they said the rosary to immerse themselves in their faith otherwise.
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eelpis
Guest
Ethelzguy, I’m not propagating saying the rosary during mass. It’s only that I don’t jugde those who did, being stupid. I think you are missing the point I’m trying to make. No one can jugde your participation in the sacrifice of Christ by external actions or words. It might very well be that some of those who prayed the rosary, uniting themselves to the sacrifice of Christ through the hands of the priest, got more graces from the mass than those who followed along in their missals, or today just repeat the responses.
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ethelzguy
Guest
Okee doke. I agree with you. We’re wandering off here anyway.
I think we can both agree that people saying the rosary during the Latin Mass “back in the day” certainly is not a myth though. And, that’s what got us here.
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eelpis
Guest
It’s not a myth that some did pray the rosary but it’s a myth that all did so. What suits one perhaps will not suit the other. As I see it there was more freedom “back in the day” than today when everyone has to do the same.Okee doke. I agree with you. We’re wandering off here anyway.
I think we can both agree that people saying the rosary during the Latin Mass “back in the day” certainly is not a myth though. And, that’s what got us here.
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ethelzguy
Guest
I don’t ever recall posting “all”…
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laudamus_te
Guest
Yes, the remarks are very unbecoming for Catholics, not to mention un-Catholic to judge another’s interior disposition by their exterior practices. It is always best to focus on your own disposition, and not that of your neighbor. The example given by a previous poster about the women praying the Rosary through the 8:00 Mass is a perfect example.
Truly, the Holy Rosary and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass are complimentary to each other. This argument about the Rosary being a distraction from the Mass is a by-product of the NO mindset, where “participation” is expected to be vocal and obvious.
At the TLM, reading from the missal is great and to be encouraged. But often it can become routine, and halfway through the Mass one may find that they have not been fully intent on what is happening. A person praying the Rosary along with the Sacrifice of the Mass, fully aware of what is happening, will reap greater benefits than a person reading mindlessly. And if we’re honest, we can all admit that we do at times read mindlessly. Similarly, we can pray the Rosary mindlessly. That is why it is good to vary your prayer practices, and that includes the Holy Mass.
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laudamus_te
Guest
Very easily.
"We give here some *practical hints *which will help you to follow the Holy Mass with piety and fruit,
- Follow all the ceremonies of the Mass and say the sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary and consider the sorrowful Mysteries. Or
- Read in the prayer book the prayers which correspond to the various parts of the Mass, i.e., follow the order of the Mass in connection with the Proper of the Season. Or
- Say Mass with the priest to *adore *God, to *thank *Him and to *implore *His pardon and to *ask *for new graces, and in order to obtain this say:
a. From the Confiteor to the Offertory *attentively and slowly *5 times the Our Father and 5 times the Hail Mary to adore God.
b. From the Offertory to the Elevation, 5 times the Our Father and 5 times the Hail Mary, to give thanks to God.
c. From the Elevation to the Communion, 5 times the Our Father and 5 times the Hail Mary *to do penance *and to obtain remission of sins.
d. From the Communion to the Last Gospel, 5 times the Our Father and 5 times the Hail Mary to beseech mercy for yourself and others."
- Sylvester P. Juergens, S.M., Doctor of Sacred Theology
The New Marian Missal, 1958
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brotherhrolf
Guest
If I had a nickel for every time that old canard was raised, I’d be a weathly man. Yep, it is a well know fact that ALL of us recited our rosaries way back when. I know I sure did when I served Mass as a boy…errr, wait, how could I have done that and served Mass? No! Wait! My mamma did…errr except that she was too busy pointing out the Latin and English translations to me except when I was serving on the altar.
Were there little old Sicilian ladies in mantillas saying the rosary in my parish? I’d be a liar if I said there wasn’t. Was it as all-consuming as Ethelzguy makes it out to be? No. Not by a long shot. Let’s have some honesty here. Ethelzguy, I’m younger than you and what you purport is sheer hogwash. You can fool most of the rest of the crowd but you can’t fool me.
I was an altar boy during those last years before we switched over to the NO. I wish I had a nickel for every time I hear that all we did was pray our rosaries. I havent’t been to an EF Mass since the mid-70s yet, to this day, I can respond and just when, Ethelzguy, did I learn it? And from whom?
Balderdash and baloney! Ohh, we were so unique out there in Kenner - an island of Latin civilization on the outskirts of metro New Orleans. Gimme a break!
At least be honest enough to say that you were one of those who prefered the NO. All this talk about blue haired old ladies saying their rosaries - shoot! We got little old Sicilian ladies in my parish saying their rosaries today! They are the daughters of the little old ladies we knew back when.
Let’s have some honesty here.
Were there little old Sicilian ladies in mantillas saying the rosary in my parish? I’d be a liar if I said there wasn’t. Was it as all-consuming as Ethelzguy makes it out to be? No. Not by a long shot. Let’s have some honesty here. Ethelzguy, I’m younger than you and what you purport is sheer hogwash. You can fool most of the rest of the crowd but you can’t fool me.
I was an altar boy during those last years before we switched over to the NO. I wish I had a nickel for every time I hear that all we did was pray our rosaries. I havent’t been to an EF Mass since the mid-70s yet, to this day, I can respond and just when, Ethelzguy, did I learn it? And from whom?
Balderdash and baloney! Ohh, we were so unique out there in Kenner - an island of Latin civilization on the outskirts of metro New Orleans. Gimme a break!
At least be honest enough to say that you were one of those who prefered the NO. All this talk about blue haired old ladies saying their rosaries - shoot! We got little old Sicilian ladies in my parish saying their rosaries today! They are the daughters of the little old ladies we knew back when.
Let’s have some honesty here.
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ethelzguy
Guest
Please explain how you pray the rosary while “fully aware of what is happening” during the Sacrifice of the Mass.
It is known scientific fact, that the human brain can only process one snip of data at any given instant. If a person is jockeying between paying attention to the Mass and paying attention to the rosary, they can’t possibly be fully immmersed in either.
You can drive and listen to the radio at the same time, but you can NOT be fully attentive to both at the same time. One gets full attention, while the other gets peripheral.
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laudamus_te
Guest
Why don’t you ask the Doctor of Theology, who said so? I suggest that you are arguing this point out of a personal distaste for praying the Rosary during Mass. Amen, so be it. If you cannot understand how it is possible to pray the Rosary and at the same time be aware of what is happening at the altar, then by all means, don’t do so. I am certainly not trying to convince you or anyone that it is something that you must do. Just please don’t judge another who finds that they do, indeed, reap great benefits from the practice, or suggest that they simply cannot do so.
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Robster7
Guest
Folks,
I think dialog TLM is great. Went to TLM yesterday. Although some of it was out loud, some of it wasn’t. It’s very hard to keep track of where you are.
Unfortunately, with the prayers at the foot of the altar, although said out loud, they were said so rapidly without inflection. Why is that, and why aren’t more people dismayed at this? If you are going to pray out loud there is no reason to rush through it. Even if it is in Latin, it is hardly reverent to run through at 90mph. SLOW DOWN!
I think dialog TLM is great. Went to TLM yesterday. Although some of it was out loud, some of it wasn’t. It’s very hard to keep track of where you are.
Unfortunately, with the prayers at the foot of the altar, although said out loud, they were said so rapidly without inflection. Why is that, and why aren’t more people dismayed at this? If you are going to pray out loud there is no reason to rush through it. Even if it is in Latin, it is hardly reverent to run through at 90mph. SLOW DOWN!
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ethelzguy
Guest
Well, we have multiple issues.
First we have those who say that we DID used to do both, and others who deny such.
Once we get past that, we get into the “why’s” of both being done.
I personally knew MANY people over the years who freely admitted that they said the rosary during the old Latin Mass BECAUSE they did not understand the Latin. Oh, they knew the rote memory responses…but it became a “happy hour” of sorts, two for the price of one. They could fulfill their “Sunday Obligation” and say a rosary at the same time.
I personally don’t care what others DO…it’s when they claim that it’s “so much better” than those of us who attend Mass in the vernacular, and UNDERSTAND the words and what they mean.
I personally have NEVER said a rosary while attending Mass. I feel like it’s “cheating”. Either I’m totally into the Mass, or I’m totally into my rosary. You can’t kid God.
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brotherhrolf
Guest
Yep, we all know that the Mass sprang full form from the brow of Aphrodite in the late 60s. All we did was kneel in our pews and say the rosary. Never had an idea of what was going on. And after Mass, we all went to the parish hall to play bingo.
No one understood Latin. Heaven forfend that I should have had all those vocabularly lessons to rival Bill O’Reilly :bigyikes: We were all a bunch of dummies. We sat there in our pews Sunday after Sunday and prayed our rosaries just like Ethelzguy said…the font of all wisdom.
My parents really got ripped off since the Mass was always recited in rote and I had no idea what those Latin words meant. Bill O’Reilly uses those Latin derived words which I have to run and scramble to look up because the Brothers never taught us or never spent a half hour a day on vocabularly lessons. Ethelzguy has spoken. Whip out your rosaries, y’all, it’s time for Mass!!!
PS. I have a bridge across Lake Pontchartrain available for sale - cheap.
No one understood Latin. Heaven forfend that I should have had all those vocabularly lessons to rival Bill O’Reilly :bigyikes: We were all a bunch of dummies. We sat there in our pews Sunday after Sunday and prayed our rosaries just like Ethelzguy said…the font of all wisdom.
My parents really got ripped off since the Mass was always recited in rote and I had no idea what those Latin words meant. Bill O’Reilly uses those Latin derived words which I have to run and scramble to look up because the Brothers never taught us or never spent a half hour a day on vocabularly lessons. Ethelzguy has spoken. Whip out your rosaries, y’all, it’s time for Mass!!!
PS. I have a bridge across Lake Pontchartrain available for sale - cheap.
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Robster7
Guest
Folks,
Try to calm down. Speak your piece, address what the person is saying tactfully; don’t sneer. When someone digs in their heels, I wont argue anymore. I’ll say what I have to say, but dont expect them to agree to it or understand. I must leave them to their folly
I have been trying to impart the philosophy of Robism for 44 years; alas, no one has accepted it but me!
One of the recent popes of 20th or 19th cent. addressed the problem of doing devotions instead of paying attention to the mass. I believe he was a’gin it. The Catechism I think addresses this somewhere.
Anyway, re doing anything other than focusing on Mass itself, however it came about, seems like trying to talk/listen to someone on the phone, while watching TV. You do neither well.
If I’m trying to watch TV at the same time, i miss significant bits of relevant conversation, “Huh?, What did you say?”
If someone I’m speaking to is watching TV, I usually can tell when there are periods of silence and their attention seems focused elsewhere. You dont have the other person’s full attention, and aren’t giving them yours. I would find it ultimately in terms of communciation, ineffective, if not rude.
So when you are at mass, follow the Mass. Dont pray the rosary at that time. Do it when and where you can do it fruitfully, not just to get it in as a painful necessity. It’s a matter of the right place and right time for everything.
Try to calm down. Speak your piece, address what the person is saying tactfully; don’t sneer. When someone digs in their heels, I wont argue anymore. I’ll say what I have to say, but dont expect them to agree to it or understand. I must leave them to their folly
I have been trying to impart the philosophy of Robism for 44 years; alas, no one has accepted it but me!One of the recent popes of 20th or 19th cent. addressed the problem of doing devotions instead of paying attention to the mass. I believe he was a’gin it. The Catechism I think addresses this somewhere.
Anyway, re doing anything other than focusing on Mass itself, however it came about, seems like trying to talk/listen to someone on the phone, while watching TV. You do neither well.
If I’m trying to watch TV at the same time, i miss significant bits of relevant conversation, “Huh?, What did you say?”
If someone I’m speaking to is watching TV, I usually can tell when there are periods of silence and their attention seems focused elsewhere. You dont have the other person’s full attention, and aren’t giving them yours. I would find it ultimately in terms of communciation, ineffective, if not rude.
So when you are at mass, follow the Mass. Dont pray the rosary at that time. Do it when and where you can do it fruitfully, not just to get it in as a painful necessity. It’s a matter of the right place and right time for everything.
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laudamus_te
Guest
I don’t recall anyone denying that some people did/do both. What has been denied is that people were expected to do so. I quote, “shut up and pray the rosary.”
Who has done that? Or are you carrying an argument over from another thread?
And you attend the NO, I bet.
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