Public Restrooms in the USA and Transgenderism and Ethical Concerns

[Cherry5]

Unfortunately child molesters are more plentiful than one might think, and a good many of them start with their own children. As I have stated elsewhere, incest occurs in 33% of all families. That’s the reported cases. If we consider those cases that are not reported I can estimate that it is around 50%. That is a shocking number.

The number of registered sex offenders within .5 miles of my home is 6-10 at any given time. We are 6 blocks from an elementary school. I don’t want to believe that there are that many predators put there, but there are. It has long been known that at least 25% of all women have been raped. Again, this is reported cases. I would imagine it is also more like 50%, and the number of sexually assaulted men is probably the same, and they report less often than women.

The next time your at Church look at the folks in the pews and remember those numbers. It is a sad, often hidden reality that at least half of the people and children sitting out there have been victims of sexual assault at some level. And all too often the predator is sitting right next to them.

This is a terrible sin against God. Having a respectable amount of privacy is in line with being able to practice and maintain modesty and safety.

These are shocking numbers! based on this it amazes me the amount of concern there is about transgender people, who are from the discussions here, are at greater risk of being attacked themselves.

This discussion speaks to the superficial understanding of transgender people. They are NOT a threat to anyone, there is NO evidence to prove otherwise.

This apprehension is not based on facts or any evidence, even the quoted instance from the OP is in question.

The bigger threat is the “normal” God fearing people you see around you! they are a large part of the statistics above it would be logical to address this first.

Men and women walk around naked in their locker rooms, how come there is no concern about being attacked by homosexuals? how come this vulnerability does not stop people from walking around naked?

How is that if incest happens in 30% of families we still promote the concept of families! we do not separate kids from their parents! This is statistically a bigger threat than Transgender people in washrooms.

It is very disheartening as a Catholic to see read some of these threads.

 

[mommamaree]

These are shocking numbers! based on this it amazes me the amount of concern there is about transgender people, who are from the discussions here, are at greater risk of being attacked themselves.

This discussion speaks to the superficial understanding of transgender people. They are NOT a threat to anyone, there is NO evidence to prove otherwise.

This apprehension is not based on facts or any evidence, even the quoted instance from the OP is in question.

The bigger threat is the “normal” God fearing people you see around you! they are a large part of the statistics above it would be logical to address this first.

Men and women walk around naked in their locker rooms, how come there is no concern about being attacked by homosexuals? how come this vulnerability does not stop people from walking around naked?

How is that if incest happens in 30% of families we still promote the concept of families! we do not separate kids from their parents! This is statistically a bigger threat than Transgender people in washrooms.

It is very disheartening as a Catholic to see read some of these threads.

What specifically is disheartening? I am weary of the emotional pleas to not have conversations that must be had. I have not targeted transgender persons for any sort of discrimination or scorn. I have asked only how to respond with a compassionate and sane attitude in the face of a rapid and potentially hazardous cultural shift. Transgender persons are not saints. They are just as likely as “cis” persons to harass or attack someone. Women are statistically more likely to be attacked/harassed by a biological male than by a biological female, therefore, the presence of a biological male in the public restroom/locker room is going to cause women to feel unsafe. Why is it that our society is so quick to diminish legitimate concerns of women for the sake of individuals with disorders, and try to silence debate with emotional pleas designed to shame those who object to the new world order? It is not an intelligent argument at all, but merely sentimental.

 

[pnewton]

This discussion speaks to the superficial understanding of transgender people.

It is not a superficial understanding. It is lack of agreement that such a classification exists, anymore than a person who thinks he is a dog should be treated as a transpecies person. Mind you, I am not referring to intersex or transsexual people. I am referring to someone whose only issue is in their mind, who is physically one gender 100%, but thinks they are something else - gender identity. This would have been laughable a generation ago.

I agree with your concern for these people’s safety. It is one reason why this theory of transgenderism should not extend to public restrooms.

I have yet to see one reason that is not political why these people can not use the restroom associated with their gender. Is their comfort of greater concern than that of the other 99.9% of society? Why can’t they just be the one’s to deal with their physical reality?

 

[Cricket2]

The bigger threat is the “normal” God fearing people you see around you! they are a large part of the statistics above it would be logical to address this first.

Your are correct, yet we seem to automatically point our fingers in a different direction. I agree transgender folks are not a threat to anyone just because they are transgendered. Most have the difficult task of determining which gender best suits them, physically and emotionally. They have only my prayers and I hope a credible amount of understanding.

I was first very shocked at the percentage of incest that occurs, and the high numbers in the case of stranger rapes and sexual harassment. That is until I really started to review who lived in my community, what went on during my college years and the levels and subtleties of sexual harassment at work. WOW. Big eye opener.

Some of my own experiences include:

One attempted sexual assault by a distant family member.
One attempted sexual assault by a complete stranger in broad daylight at a bus stop.
One actual third degree sexual assault by 5 men at one of my jobs. In broad daylight during a company picnic.
One physical altercation of attempted sexual harassment at a job.
One inappropriate physical contact at a different job.

And folks, if you could, you could ask anyone that knows me, I have never dressed in a way that could be considered provocative. I am super modest, do not engage in dangerous behaviors that would open me up to this kind of thing. Any young folks who might read this,…you really need to think about who your with, what your wearing.

As a child there were no less than 10 different neighbors between my fathers house and my grandmothers house that we were told to stay away from because of the following observed behaviors:

Repeated attempts of one man to assault his own daughters and their girl-friends. My mother went right out the door to accost this man, and told the girls present at the time to stay the %%%% away from him. He was also caught doing the peeping-tom act many many times. They did less about this stuff when I was a kid.

Repeated sightings of several of the neighbors watching kids in school grounds and parks.

Lewd public behavior.

Police visits for following school children.

Strong suspicion that they were too interested in little boys and always wanting to take them alone to go camping, while they were known to be involved in porn.

Actual attempts at grabbing children, including myself and a friend.

And all of this is over a 7-10 year period while we were attending schools in our community.

Predators are more numerous than it might appear. We can’t become paranoid, but we also can’t go around with our heads in the sand.

 

[J_Peterson]

Has anyone ever ran into a transgendered person in the rest room? I’ve never seen it and Boston is one of the more liberal cities in the country. Perhaps at the gay/drag bars you’ll see it more often but I don’t typically go to those places.

 

[pnewton]

Good point, but it is hardly the first time some legislature tries to address a problem that does not exist, at least significantly enough to change everything and inconvenience everyone.

 

[rae317]

I have not targeted transgender persons for any sort of discrimination or scorn.

you said you would call the police on them and you want to deny trans women access to womens rooms.

 

[pnewton]

you said you would call the police on them and you want to deny trans women access to womens rooms.

I believe she said she would report males.

 

[Cricket2]

Good point, but it is hardly the first time some legislature tries to address a problem that does not exist, at least significantly enough to change everything and inconvenience everyone.

I have seen this only a couple of times. At least I was only aware of it twice. Had not trouble either time.

 

[Cherry5]

They are just as likely as “cis” persons to harass or attack someone. .

This another example of a baseless comment.

Again speaks to your limited understanding of Trans people.

 

[Cherry5]

I have yet to see one reason that is not political why these people can not use the restroom associated with their gender. Is their comfort of greater concern than that of the other 99.9% of society? Why can’t they just be the one’s to deal with their physical reality?

This NOT political, if you did understand what transgender people go through you would not make this statement.

It is not 99.9% of society that is uncomfortable with this, there are a few that are uncomfortable right now but over time and with some education will learn to be more accepting. I see no difference as to the process of accepting untouchables in India or the blacks in N America.

 

[pnewton]

This NOT political, if you did understand what transgender people go through you would not make this statement.

It is not 99.9% of society that is uncomfortable with this, there are a few that are uncomfortable right now but over time and with some education will learn to be more accepting. I see no difference as to the process of accepting untouchables in India or the blacks in N America.

Just keep talking and circles and begging the question. What you do not understand is that I do not agree that there are transgender in the sense it is used as a feeling of being the wrong gender. I consider the wrong perception of reality a form of mental illness. It is the same as thinking one is a petunia and demanding to be fertilized and watered.

 

[Cherry5]

I consider the wrong perception of reality a form of mental illness. It is the same as thinking one is a petunia and demanding to be fertilized and watered.

I give up!

 

[SMGS127]

It is the same as thinking one is a petunia and demanding to be fertilized and watered.

Care to show the cases where people have been born biologically mixed between a human and a petunia? I can show you cases where people were born biologically mixed between male and female though. Don’t be so quick to judge the situation as if you know the science without any research done; that’s what got Dr. Bailey and Dr. McHugh (who wrote current Church policy, which isn’t doctrinal) scientifically discredited.

 

[mommamaree]

you said you would call the police on them and you want to deny trans women access to womens rooms.

No I said I would report males in the ladies restroom.

 

[mommamaree]

This another example of a baseless comment.

Again speaks to your limited understanding of Trans people.

Really? So are trans persons holier and less violent than regular-gendered persons. I think not.
And what some posters have overlooked is that pre-op trans women (biological male) still have male genitalia. We should not have restrooms that allow people with different genitalia to be in the same bathroom or locker room at the same time. This is a recipe for disaster. There are numerous stories of trans women(biological males) who feel like they are women, but are also sexually attracted to women, or who consider themselves bisexual.
Furthermore, how long until rapists start taking advantage of the new arena for harassment of women? They could easily stroll into the ladies room, with every legal right to be there, or follow a woman in and attack her out of sight of witnesses.
And finally, trans women(biological males) will never know what it is to be a biological female. They do not have a womb. They will never have a period. They will never deal with issues related to menstruation or pregnancy. Women need to attend to these needs in private, without the presence of males. No matter how a trans person feels they have the wrong body, the fact is they still have the body they have, and they do not have any idea what it is like to have a different body. Women will feel the loss of their dignity and privacy having to give up these spaces to persons with bodies of the opposite sex. It is unfair to ask 50% of the population to have to accommodate the emotional needs of a few individuals with a mental disorder (gender identity disorder) when that accommodation will also enable males who wish to harass women.

 

[Cherry5]

Rae317,
To speak to your concern directly, if you appear to be a male, **despite your attire, **and I happened to see you in the ladies room or locker room, I absolutely would report you immediately, as well as inform other females of the presence of a male in the ladies room and remove my daughters and leave.

To me that looks like you are referring to a transgender person. And without any provocation you would proceed to harass the transgender person!

How is this being a compassionate catholic? Transgender people are not dangerous.

If you did that in Canada you would probably be arrested.

 

[mommamaree]

To me that looks like you are referring to a transgender person. And without any provocation you would proceed to harass the transgender person!

How is this being a compassionate catholic? Transgender people are not dangerous.

If you did that in Canada you would probably be arrested.

I said if the poster appeared to be a male in the ladies room, no matter what attire, then yes, I would report him, as well as alert other women to the danger and remove my daughters. How did this equate to harassing someone? I know absolutely nothing about the poster other than what they said in their post. I was not targeting anyone. If I would be put in jail in Canada for reporting a male in the ladies room, then I will make sure never to go there. Not that I ever had any desire to go there anyway.

 

[SMGS127]

And what some posters have overlooked is that pre-op trans women (biological male) still have male genitalia. We should not have restrooms that allow people with different genitalia to be in the same bathroom or locker room at the same time. This is a recipe for disaster.

Agreed.

No matter how a trans person feels they have the wrong body, the fact is they still have the body they have, and they do not have any idea what it is like to have a different body. Women will feel the loss of their dignity and privacy having to give up these spaces to persons with bodies of the opposite sex.

How do you feel about post-op trans women? Personally, I feel like restrooms (and certainly locker rooms) should be divided by genitalia, regardless of what gender we actually view a person to be, and unisex/family bathrooms available for those uncomfortable with this situation. Then there would be no potential for abuse and there also wouldn’t be the risk of a trans woman getting raped by being forced to use the men’s room. That’s just my opinion though, and I’d be interested to see yours on the issue.

 

[Corki]

I said if the poster appeared to be a male in the ladies room, no matter what attire, then yes, I would report him, as well as alert other women to the danger and remove my daughters. How did this equate to harassing someone? I know absolutely nothing about the poster other than what they said in their post. I was not targeting anyone. If I would be put in jail in Canada for reporting a male in the ladies room, then I will make sure never to go there. Not that I ever had any desire to go there anyway.

This is what we have come to. Not endorsing this behavior and being unwilling to sacrifice the modesty and decency of our children = harassment.